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Level Design Construction of Mamaev Kurgan

ViViD

Grizzled Veteran
Dec 2, 2005
584
26
Well Mamaev has won and the rest of the post will remain in here, what I planned to do is create the map and take screenies and take feedback, also it may help some new mappers in constructing a map from scratch or even some shortcut tips. I would love all input on the map what you would change or additions to the map.

I already prepared some terrain elements even before the end of the voting as I could see which map would win the comp.

Below is a overhead image which I am using which shows the Northeastern facing of where the russian guards advanced up to take the hill. The image was taken after the battle and show the foxholes and trenches that the russians dug to hold this position, so in this instance the positions are not necessary to view as this is the sports the germans will defend.

http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mamaev1vd8.jpg



After choosing the most interesting part of the map to work on, this will form the basis of the attack, which is the gully moving up towards the summit, with historical maps you will find that normally there is a lot more open space and devoid of cover, so its important to pick the landscape which has the most happen. I used the overhead shot to create my base layer to work off you could use a google map or a hand sketch drawing this helps with quick working out of positions. Using google earth I was able to get a heights of various locations to make the hill.

http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=overheadto4.jpg

then raising the terrain the flattening it to point to point I was able to create a rough height map ready for smoothing and abusing.




Now the next stage soon with the shaping of the terrain.
 
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Hobo: I did narva exactly the same, a year and a bit ago now, so I guess great minds come up with the same conclusions <smile>

Problem with the heighmap from google earth it comes up with some weird results and you spend just as much time fixing up those weird bumps, as you do with this method.
 
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The problem with using google earth is that the height data it contains is SRTM (Shuttle radar topography mission) data that was collected in 2000 and will include modern structures in it and has a relatively coarse resolution of 90m. SRTM tends to suffer from height spikes and areas of missing data as the radar sometimes cant see beyond hills.

Would it help if you got another 3d surface to work from? Ive worked with SRTM data before and could download and clean up the original data- get rid of the spikes that tend to occur and smooth across gaps if they exist.
 
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Steely: Thanks for the offer, the terrain in 1942 is different from todays hill in the fact that the deep gullies are missing, and I already shaped the majority of the hill of the 1942 picture and I feel that it is close enough for the achievments on recreating this map, thanks again though.

New update, this is after some terrain smoothing and terrain detailing, the way I accomplished the smoothing and layering is having a print out next to me as well as using the on terrain overhead layer, I shaped and smoothed from the above flat terrain layers.

To create the steps of terrain, after smoother the terrain I picked a point and used the flatten tool and move around the terrain in 3d mode creating a hand drawn layer. I then with a slight percent smooth went over the edges and made is not so hard as well as creating smooth sections for running up or where water cascades.

The main gully was created by using the paint tool and depressing the terrain then going back over and smoothing the bottom of the gully.

There was certain sections I created little drops in the terrain and flatten the base out, this created a feeling of tiny landshifts. On the hard sections of the gully I created rock texturing, on the sides of the terrain which appear exposed or terrain which is sunken I darkened with another dirt texture. Then smoothed the textures with the smooth tool.





This first image is of the main road next to the gully leading up to the summit, I made it a dust dirt road, as I imagined it more like a trail.



This image is the steps in the hill side 10 metres to the left of the image above, this particular hill I feel is unique in the fact that if you look at pictures or so forth its made up of a number of soil steps to the top of the mountain. Also i am using 4 textures at the moment, the base layer dirt, after much searching (really important to get your textures that work well together, its more of a mud base, showing a wet texture, the road texture is a drier dustier feel, which can be also used for light trails, and the last texture is rock textures for the gully.



This image on the first stage of the hill looking down the gully which heads towards the summit, there is actually 3 different areas which run to the summit.



This image looking from the top of stage 2 hill towards stage 1 flat ground, very open with very little cover. Need ideas to help the attacker.



This image is 180 degrees of the image above the last bit of flat ground before the summit (stage 2 open ground)



This image looking down from the summit



This image is of the summit, I can see a number of wooden command post structures here, as well as more hardened fortifications.

This will also be the final stand for the germans.

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Ideas needed;

Q1. What do I do with the open flat pieces of terrain, considering that heavy trenches were not completed is this section should I put pieces of foxholes and fighting pits to give both ther attacker and defender a really dog fight.

There is only so many vehicles you can put in that give a realistic feeling 1-4 at tops.

Q2. The hill on the image above other then the gully is devoid of vegetation should I keep this historical accuate and keep the ground very empty.

Q3. How do I define the boundaries on a map so desolate, perhaps I can put two gullies leading to the summit that if entered show as minefields that give the units a hard boundary for the units.

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This blog style map is great dialogue for senior mappers to share ideas and perhaps give the tips and hint away to those that can see how easy realistic and historical terrain mapping can be created, so keep the input coming its all great.
 
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Looking great- Im amazed at how quickly your pulling this together!

I think fox holes and fighting pits would be good- as well as plenty of shell holes. Ideally there should just enough space between them that you can dash from cover to cover. Fox holes and sandbags would be useful in positions that allow the attackers to set up a base of fire to cover the assault. So in the picture of stage 2 looking down at stage 1 I cant tell how big the distances are but I imagine some ruined vehicles at the exit of the gulley would be a good position to set up a firebase

do you have an overhead view of the map as that may help..
 
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Fighting Pits or Trenches

Todays work was spend on the fighting pits, I am using the terrain, although not ideal, if you make cut in brushes the texture colours are different and there is always a unreal feel to them. To straigh up the edges to allow to balance your gun I have used sandbags this allow a little more vertical aspect, I have also mixed in roadbase and mudbase, together to get a dug but used feel.

I am thinking these fighting pits will be scattered around even in the open areas. To allow for some cover.

For a more solid fortification you could go the wooden walls or sticks holding up, but I imagine the time the germans were allowed to dig in was about 1-2 days and I doubt it was un interrupted, I imagine the only defence they could of made were foxholes and fighting pits.

Although on top of the summit there seem to be on the overhead image more of a permanent stucture or defences, probably left from the Russian HQ that occupied it before the 195th Division took over the hill.

 
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There was a big old round water storage building on the top which got battered but the ruins were still used as a strongpoint. There is also a pill box on the South-western flank but I dunno if it was the foundation of an original water station building that got a bit of concrete poured over it as a roof during the battle or if it was created after.

I'll see if I can dig out some photos.
 
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Nestor: I saw the round water tower but that is further away from the north eastern slopes, where the fight I am depicting is (you can see its not shown on the picture below, although I could use it in the backdrop outside the combat zone.

Now there seems to be on the overhead shot above a small building or ruins near the two tracks that merge together before the summit.

But if you have any pics on the north eastern slope other then the shot I have above it would be great.

Cpl_Hans: This is the strange thing that has gotten me if you look in the overhead image above you can see the shell holes and there does not seem to be many also as far as debree it would of only been soil apprently I been told pre 1942 is was a grassy hill with very little vegetation and not many trees.

So what you think think happened to all the shell holes if this hill was pitted with them?
 
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What happened to the shell holes?

What happened to the shell holes?

Only two things come to mind on what happened to the shell holes that do not appear in the pictures if a) you assume the hill was shelled, and b) we try to understand who and what did the shelling.

1) The ground is extremely dense and mostly rock then,
a) Only mortars and light artillery was used rather than heavy rocket attacks or Stuka dive bombers,
b) so, the light rounds didn't leave impact craters or debris.

2) The ground is extremely soft, almost like sand then,
a) Any round would leave an impact crater but the crater would fill in almost instantly from erosion,
b) and therefore, only light rounds were used because heavy ordnance would leave a very deep hole.

Is someone out there an armchair expert on geology and ordnance?
 
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Isnt the Mamaev a tumulus (burial mound)? If the whole thing is a burial mound then I would expect the soil to be generally loose so the latter idea seems reasonable.


EDIT- ok, stalingrad is in a region of deep loess soils (>5m) http://www.ufz.de/data/European_Loess_Map_hires7613.jpg These are very fine, wind blown sediments that derive from glacial deposites see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loess for more.

I guess that a mound made from loess would probably backfill shellholes/explosions easily. Also being light I dont know how this would effect the force of explosions- would it dampen them as shells may penetrate easily? Incidentally the wikipedia article mentions that loess holds sharp banks very well which would explain the clear ridges- cultivation terraces?

Edit the second: I see now that the kurgan is a small mound on top of the hill- not the whole thing. Thought it was a bit bloody big! Anyway, the comment on loess still stands :)
 
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There was a big old round water storage building on the top which got battered but the ruins were still used as a strongpoint. There is also a pill box on the South-western flank but I dunno if it was the foundation of an original water station building that got a bit of concrete poured over it as a roof during the battle or if it was created after.

I doubt this is the same Water Storage Bldg. that Nestor is referring to, but maybe it could be, or perhaps it could have looked something like this?


Unidentitfied photo, Stalingrad, 1942:




A lot of the photos I have, unfortunately, are close up shots, so you don't really get a feel for the land's layout with these:

Soviet Flag on Mamaev Hill:



German Panzer on Mamaev Hill:





This website, if you scroll down on the left, has a link with two photos juxtaposed next to each other of a Soviet mural painting and the Hill as it looks today:

http://www.stalingrad-info.com/


This website has a lot of good factual information (good for writing the Map Intro and perhaps to get Unit Information) but you got to dig deep into the site:

http://users.pandora.be/stalingrad/



This says the 13th Siberian Guards fought at Mamaev, look on September 15, 1942:

http://hometown.aol.com/daveww2/History13thSiberians.html



Close Combat Mod version of Mamaev:




I'll try and see if I have anything else soon, and I'll also try and get the website for the Flag and Tank photo so you can see them better.
 
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Well been working hard at it, and instead of screenies, I have a RO file, you can download and look at in practise mode, it only has one russian spawn point and make sure you turn off BOTs.

I put in fighting pits as well as one ruin that could be on the overhead as I see some type of structure.

I have also added the minefields to outline the boundaries of the map. Please give feedback on the terrain and fighting pits as well as defences and shell holes.

The map will continue running my theme of realistic combat and sometimes the openess is just apart of this so just be aware of this. If you expecting close quarter combat, this map will probably suit the bolt-action specialists.

Enjoy

RO-MamaevKurgan Download (Terrain Only)
http://www.mediafire.com/?ycem1ijzhfx


Gamburd: Thanks for the photos I will definately add that ruin structure at the summit.

Steely: Interesting about the soil compistion that now explains why the hill is like a layered wedding cake.

CPl_Hans: I am willing to bet that the only craters showing are 500lb stuka bombs, So possibly the surface is hard or soft and the shelling of the hill was probably using light artillery such as 75-76mm or 81-82 mortars
 
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.rar confusing

.rar confusing

I downloaded the file and it is a .rar. I didn't know what to do with it so I put it with the maps folder and changed the extension to .rom. Unfortunately, before I even had a chance to open it, my RO crashed with general protection faults! :mad: I've loaded the CC, MN, and DH mods but don't think this caused the problem. I think it's the SDK that keeps killing my machine. Anyway, after hacking around a bit, I had to de-install and redownload RO and ran out of time so did not open the file.

Please tell me what the .rar is, if it should be .rom, and what to do with the file to get it into practice mode if it isn't supposed to be a .rom?
 
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