Community Opinion: Berserker Overpowered?

[Aze]

The Berserker is the easiest Perks to solo a 6 Player HoE Wave. I guess everyone can agree on that.

Since other Perks can do that too, albeit they'll have a smaller room for Errors, and need to continually look for Ammo Boxes. The really interesting question is how one can reduce the avaible margin of error avaible to the Berserker Perk, without killing it in general usefulness.

My suggestion would be to look at the avaible Combat Roles for all Perks and determine which part the Berserker doesn't need to fill.

Commando and Firebug excell at "Trash" ZED decimation and are very Cost effective at that
Demo and Support can decimate big Groups of small ZEDs or deal with big ZEDs, though Demo is long Range and Support Short Range.
Sharpshooter is ideal for Anti-Scrake and since the Balance still okay for FPs.
Medic can heal and support the Team with killing Trashs.

Berserker can kill all Trashs and deal with Big Ones, though FPs need to be kited. Its the most cost efficient perk.


So the Berserker can kill everything without resorting to non-perked Weapons, except for the FP (can be done but is risky).
Even if the Berserker could no longer kill the FP with his Melee Weapons, he could use the M32/LAR etc. So the other BIG Zed capable of dealing with the Berserker is the Scrake but does one want to remove the Ability from the Berserker to stun the Scrake?

Perhaps we should talk about what would be an appropiate Weakness for the Berserker.

Removing/Reducing the Movement Speed of the Berserker might reduce the avaible Margin of Error, but could also result in a decrease in general effectiveness.

Instead of reducing the general Damage reduction, one could reduce it on a per ZED Base. After all the Berserker Job is to be there up front and personal, kicking **s and take Names.
Perhaps no damage Reduction against Husks ?

^ Good angle of discussing here

Zerker weakness proposal:
Remove the simplicity of Fleshpound kiting by making melee hits autorage the Fleshpound (or at least much easier to make him rage through meleeing) and/or remove the Fleshpound's rage-time-reset when the FP misses a swing. Would make the Zerker an anti-melee-trash + anti-Scrake instead and would also make the Zerker more reliant on the team regarding disposing Fleshpounds.

 

[outofrealman]

^ Good angle of discussing here

Zerker weakness proposal:
Remove the simplicity of Fleshpound kiting by making melee hits autorage the Fleshpound (or at least much easier to make him rage through meleeing) and/or remove the Fleshpound's rage-time-reset when the FP misses a swing. Would make the Zerker an anti-melee-trash + anti-Scrake instead and would also make the Zerker more reliant on the team regarding disposing Fleshpounds.

I dont know but... isn't the main complain being berserker having too easy time in soloing a remaining wave? Both change will just make berserkers use LAR instead of melee weapons against fleshpounds.

 

[the 1st wasted]

Why, why, why is everyone so fixated on the FP? There are other Zeds besides the FP, maybe that should be considered instead of putting all your efforts into a single Zed.

 

[Aze]

I dont know but... isn't the main complain being berserker having too easy time in soloing a remaining wave? Both change will just make berserkers use LAR instead of melee weapons against fleshpounds.

Being good at soloing is something we can't reduce much without underpowering the Zerker (aka the runspeed, and to some extent the resistance and anti-clot-grab)

Making him REQUIRE the LAR (or any other similar strong anti-fp-weapon like that) would make the Zerker at least more even to the other perks in that he needs to use a LIMITED source to take care of them. ANY perk can do this, but the Zerker can do this with an UNLIMITED source very easily, due to the FP-miss-swing-thing, which is one of the most overpowered aspects of the Zerker imo. It would still be possible to solo the remaining wave for the Zerker, yes, just like it is possible for other perks... well, at least if those perks can kill Scrakes too (Scrakes are the currently most qualified anti-solo specimen, due to their endless raging.)

That's the first thing that can be done. After that, maybe nerf some more, if needed. One step at a time is the way to go, not go apesh1t crazy on the nerfing all at once.

At least it could be something to try out...

Why, why, why is everyone so fixated on the FP? There are other Zeds besides the FP, maybe that should be considered instead of putting all your efforts into a single Zed.

Well, it's either that or / and the Scrake, who are the only 2 REALLY deciding factors wether a perk can potentially solo a wave or not.
The Scrake could be un-stunnable with melee weapons, but then what would the benefit of having an Axe-ing Zerker in front of the team be? Taking it's attention and soaking up the damage? If he is just good against melee trash, then wouldn't a Commando / Support / Firebug be better in the first place?

 

[outofrealman]

similar strong anti-fp-weapon like that) would make the Zerker at least more even to the other perks in that he needs to use a LIMITED source to take care of them. ANY perk can do this, but the Zerker can do this with an UNLIMITED source very easily, due to the FP-miss-swing-thing, which is one of the most overpowered aspects of the Zerker imo. It would still be possible to solo the remaining wave for the Zerker, yes, just like it is possible for other perks... well, at least if those perks can kill Scrakes too (Scrakes are the currently most qualified anti-solo specimen, due to their endless raging.)

In fact because of the chainsaw backstab bug fix, it become quite ****ty. (before anyone try to defend, YES, I KNOW! chainsaw COULD STILL be useful, just like if done on purpose you can knife + 9mm as berserker and still have a slightly chance to win...)

It actually come down to katana + axe nearly all the time. And what else can a berserker buy with this combo? M32? LAR? Handcannon? OK, if you choose handcannon... good luck. And purely from my observation AND personally experience, handcannon is not a good choice, and most berserker dont carry it.

So it is likely that berserkers armed with LAR or M32. VERY LIKELY. So it really dont make much of a difference. Just like when axe alt-fire rages fps, people use pri-fire. If pri-fire rage fp, they use katana. As simple as that. As soon as the change is identified, play style can be adjusted really easily. Just like before the xbow nerf, berserkers with xbow + katana already use his speed to create distance and then xbow till scrakes or fp is dead. And after the nerf, they melee. The change just bring back this play style, just making xbow become LAR or M32.

It's not like commandos or firebug who are forced to kite fps most of the time. Because they DONT HAVE anti-fp weapons nearly all the time.

I have no reason to oppose the change. However it just wont do what you want it to do. You are not forcing berserkers to have LAR or M32... they jsut have it anyways.....


As for scrakes... kite till they are the only kind of zed left and then either:
1. exchange hits with them with any perked weapons one at a time
2. just run away and then they will auto-die (unless you get 5+ scrakes, then just use point 1)

And before anyone point it out: YES, I am exploiting, or whatever you would like to call it.

 

[the 1st wasted]

@Aze

FP's and scrakes are normaly not the deciding factor. Zerkers tend to be killed by lesser Zeds, such as the Husk either outright or with a combination of Husks and others. The other day I was dealing with 4 Husks, got hit a few times trying to kill them with the LAR, I broke thier LOS so I could heal only to get killed by the crawler I did not see. Perhaps the crawler could be modified to make it faster and jump further, deal out and take more damage, after all they do come out of nowhere quite often and travel in packs. If they were infact changed then the risk would be mainly a zerker thing due to other perks using choke points and perked ranged weapons.

 

[Fish111]

Make stalkers do actual damage and prioritize zerkers as primary targets

 

[outofrealman]

Make stalkers do actual damage

~15 damage with cloak. It is actual damage. At least for me it is.

prioritize zerkers as primary targets

This only affect team play.

 

[the 1st wasted]

Make stalkers do actual damage and prioritize zerkers as primary targets

then the Commando lovers will start complaining about the Zerker stealing all the Stalker kills.

 

[Witzig]

hm,

perhaps we could also discuss another angle.

If one would reduce the Speed Bonus of the Berserker significantly, or take it completly away, including the Immunity to the Clot Grasp. The Berserker will take more damage.
To continue his Work he could get more resistance (+5 maybe 10% ?), since he can dodge less. Might be a bad idea or not.


This would also force the Berserker to play more with the Team (read Medic) since he can literally Tank the Enemies (similar to MMORPGs) but would have a much hard time to solo a Wave due to his slower Movement.

He could kill as good as before but is not as mobile.


Thoughts anyone ?

 

[outofrealman]

then the Commando lovers will start complaining about the Zerker stealing all the Stalker kills.

If that's a good change, small complains could be ignored. A hell lot of people complain that they nerf M14 making them not-able to one body shot clots.

hm,

perhaps we could also discuss another angle.

If one would reduce the Speed Bonus of the Berserker significantly, or take it completly away, including the Immunity to the Clot Grasp. The Berserker will take more damage.
To continue his Work he could get more resistance (+5 maybe 10% ?), since he can dodge less. Might be a bad idea or not.


This would also force the Berserker to play more with the Team (read Medic) since he can literally Tank the Enemies (similar to MMORPGs) but would have a much hard time to solo a Wave due to his slower Movement.

He could kill as good as before but is not as mobile.


Thoughts anyone ?

I would say berserkers need "some" speed bonus. May be at least 5-10%. They need to run between zeds. They need "some" speed.

 

[Witzig]

If i am not mistaken a Medic can heal 35 HP per Shot of the MP7/Syringe with a recharge rate of about 5 Seconds each ? Which translates to roughly 28 HP per Seconds on Average healed.
Should i be wrong with my numbers (I am a noob digging through the KF Codebase), i hope that Scary Ghost will once again provide hard facts .


Now a Duo of Berserker and 1 Medic should not be overpowering, a Berserker and 2 Medics with constant healing means that 3 People are holding a single Route which should hold against all comers.
So given a theoretical 50% Damage resistance to all (+Bonus to Bloat Bile):

Damage per Swing at 50% resistance (taken from the Specimen/Weapon PDF by Phada):
Clot/Crawler: ~5
Stalker: ~8
Gorefast: 2x ~13
Bloat: ~12
Siren: 6x ~7
Husk:
----Claw: ~13
---- Shot: ~17 + Burn (8+4+2+1) =15
Scrake: 2x ~18 or 1x~10
Fleshpound: ~30 or ~ 61 (charge)


Considering that if you exchange this combo with 3 Supports you'll also have a solid flank .

 

[scary ghost]

2) The 2 FPs + 4 Husks + whatever scenario is hardly a weakness. Any perk will hightail it out of there if a spawn like that caught them with their pants down. A smart zerker will run and fight with his ranged weapons until the husks are dead and the FPs are slightly split up. Failing that, the zerker can hide around corners or behind solid objects to keep the husks and sirens off of him while picking off whatever gets too close to him.

And every time he sticks his head out to shoot he will get hammerd by the husks, so yes I think it is a weakness sincce he has to hide, duck, and heal trying to kill them. If it was not a weakness he would simply run up and kill them..

Any non-firebug sticking their head out will get hammered by those husks, it's not like only zerker is affected by this. Still, with +40% resistance, they can take a few hits which is more than the commando, demo, and support can say. Most zerkers are packing a lar or xbow anyways so they can 1 or 2 shot those husks at range and most are not silly enough to fight husks without cover.

Call it a weakness if you want, but 4 husks and friends is hardly a show stopper. Those 4 husks are at worst an annoyance and a zerker can still deal with them alone. It's a far cry from a commando or firebug having to deal with scrakes and fleshpounds. Sure they can kill the 2 heavy hitters without help, but they will expend a great deal of ammo to do so and risk getting hit by a mad scrake or fp. Not to mention they wouldn't be doing their job of sweeping. Berserkers can work around their supposed "weaknesses" because they have superior speed and resistance and they can do it without assitance. No matter what, commandos and firebugs, will always have scrake and fleshpound problems to deal with and will never have an efficient way of killing them unless the team steps in.

Like Entangler said, zerker isn't the best perk to pick in every situation but he's never the worst perk.

 

[nutterbutter]

You were solo, I.E. only one player, and I do not mean that you started as 6 man and 5 died, you started a game with you, and only you. the game will spawn more in that case than it will if it was 6 player, and 5 players got killed. since you claim to know so much about the game, you should know that, if you do not then you have no buisness posting playing guides, or opinions on what is OP'd or is not OP'd. And do not come back and try to get yourself out of your mistake, all we have been talking about in here is 6 man HoE.
Till now I only questioned your motives for the posts you make, now I'm questioning your honesty and Character as well.

First, calm down. You are "questioning my honesty and Character" because you incorrectly think weapons and ammo spawn more frequently with fewer players? And even if you were right and I was wrong, I would just say "My bad. I was wrong and you were right." See how that works? Anyway, I wasn't wrong and Scary Ghost backs that up.

Plenty of ammo and weapons spawn in HoE. As Scary Ghost mentions later, and is backed up by my experience (and honestly I thought I had typed it), there is almost always something spawned on the map. Players just have to find it. The vast majority of players don't scavenge anything. Oh, they'll pick up ammo if they happen to run over it. But most won't even check around corners or look in rooms as they take the shortest route to the trader and back.

Ummm, you completely missed the point.

No I didn't. Your point was, well, let's just quote you.

there will always be one class that will be the strongest. Before it was the SS, now it is the Zerker, if that gets nerfed then more than likely the Support will take the lead, and people will start crying about that.

There is a difference between "strongest" and "OP." Strongest compares between the perks. OP compares a perk against the game itself. My point was that there can be a "Strongest" perk that wasn't "OP."

Proven that you know nothing about zerking, and to a point, the game as well. If they had no weakness then any Zerker could solo evry time, which they can't, and it seems that you are the only one that thinks they have no weakness. You try going against 1 or 2 fp's and assorted other zeds while 4 Husks are pounding the crap out of you and the Fp's, then come in here and tell me that a Zerker has no weakness.

Another false dilemma disproven by scary ghost later. No zerker is going to stay there and fight while 4 husks are pounding on him. The choices aren't "fight or die." They are going to run. Only the zerker and medic have the speed to run. Anyway, what's_his_name from earlier stated that if there are 4 husks then the player is doing something wrong and that dodging the husks aren't a problem anyway.

Never said it would.

So then why mention the 2%?

It started as 6 man suicidal, 5 players died leaving me. Everyone reading in here understood that, and so did you.

Stop purposly changing the meanings of peoples statments for your benefit! You are not fooling anybody.

Let me explain to you what happens in the real world. In the real world, words mean things. When you said "soloed", the word "solo" has a certain meaning in KF. Want an example? I used a sentence like "only so and so has the skills to exploit the situation." When someone asked about that, I said that I picked a poor word and shouldn't have used "exploit" as a verb. So I misunderstood you. See how easy that is?

Only problem is they'll both run out of ammo fairly quickly if they have to do everything by themselves.

Exactly. That is why I was on that "out of ammo" tangent earlier. When a team gets over run, everyone is firing their top weapons constantly and when the team wipes with 120+, or even more, specimens left, the surviving player has more specimens left than the start of a solo wave and they have considerably less ammo, especially of the tier 4 weapons, left as well.

Personaly I have only ever found Kevlar on custom maps when more than 1 person is playing. Today I went on West london, alone, I found Kevlar in a spot that it normaly is when I play WL alone, several ammo cans, and a HC (not all at the same time), after 2 people joined the only thing I saw that spawned was an ammo can here and there, and never more than one. The kevlar I refer to is normaly there when I play Westlondon alone, anytime I start the game with someone else I never see the Kevlar, or anything spawn in that particular place, and as a zerker running around I should be able to find it, but all I find is an ammo can, and the very ocasiaonal weapon, and I know that the spawned item will change after a certtain time, yet I have still to see it change to Kevlar I also see this in other maps as well, I am not above admiting that I am wrong, but it seems to me that there is better items spawning and faster spawning going on when I am alone than when I am not.

Yeah, I wanted to thank you for retracting the the whole "Proven that you know nothing about zerking, and to a point, the game as well. ", "I'm questioning your honesty and Character as well", and "I should have just ignored you, but i said what the hell, but since you have now proven yourself to be dishonest and manipulative, I will be ignoring you from now on." statements.

And every time he sticks his head out to shoot he will get hammerd by the husks, so yes I think it is a weakness sincce he has to hide, duck, and heal trying to kill them. If it was not a weakness he would simply run up and kill them.

While it is a bad situation, the zerk has the best chance of any perk. No other perk even has a chance except for the medic and that is if he has armor and a katana.

Perhaps we should talk about what would be an appropiate Weakness for the Berserker.

In my opinion, there are many reasons why the zerker is OP. http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=47088

I think the biggest thing to reduce is speed. Constant fast speed. Give him quickness (maybe 6 seconds of full speed then a slowdown) but remove the always-on speed.

The other thing is to simply make him what everyone already claims he is; "melee." Prevent him from carrying anything other than melee weapons. Everyone says that he can't do ranged damage. Make it that way. I'd even take the 9mm away from him.

Altering the specimens to correct the zerker's OP is the wrong approach. That is treating the symptoms rather than the cause.

 

[Witzig]

I think the biggest thing to reduce is speed. Constant fast speed. Give him quickness (maybe 6 seconds of full speed then a slowdown) but remove the always-on speed.

The other thing is to simply make him what everyone already claims he is; "melee." Prevent him from carrying anything other than melee weapons. Everyone says that he can't do ranged damage. Make it that way. I'd even take the 9mm away from him.

Altering the specimens to correct the zerker's OP is the wrong approach. That is treating the symptoms rather than the cause.

Well that is another Idea.


So coding wise we could use the "Ironsights" Function to call in a Speed Boost (Duration and Strength to be determined) for example +30% for about 6 Seconds.
I'd dare say that one would have to test this with changes to his damage resistance.


Concerning the Ranged Weapons, i guess it would be rather easy to reduce the total Weight carrying capacity of the Berserker. Down to about 7 and reduce Chainsaw and Axe Weight to 3 for Berserker
So he'd be able to carry Katana + Axe, or Katana + Chainsaw or Axe + Chainsaw.
One could in theory also go with Katana, Axe or Chainsaw + MP7, or Machete + SCAR, M79, MAC-10, Handcannon or M14 .

I'd daresay the 9mm could stay.

Is that in line with what you had in mind ?

 

[the 1st wasted]

First, calm down. You are "questioning my honesty and Character" because you incorrectly think weapons and ammo spawn more frequently with fewer players? And even if you were right and I was wrong, I would just say "My bad. I was wrong and you were right." See how that works? Anyway, I wasn't wrong and Scary Ghost backs that up.

When I see that I am wrong I do admit it. I was wrong, my bad, sorry.

Plenty of ammo and weapons spawn in HoE. As Scary Ghost mentions later, and is backed up by my experience (and honestly I thought I had typed it), there is almost always something spawned on the map. Players just have to find it. The vast majority of players don't scavenge anything. Oh, they'll pick up ammo if they happen to run over it. But most won't even check around corners or look in rooms as they take the shortest route to the trader and back.



No I didn't. Your point was, well, let's just quote you.



There is a difference between "strongest" and "OP." Strongest compares between the perks. OP compares a perk against the game itself. My point was that there can be a "Strongest" perk that wasn't "OP."


My point is that as soon as one perk is nerfed, people look at the new most powerfull perk and start complaining that it is OP'd, wether it is op'd or not, the sides will be divided, but the debate will rage on, and on, and on.



Another false dilemma disproven by scary ghost later. No zerker is going to stay there and fight while 4 husks are pounding on him. The choices aren't "fight or die." They are going to run. Only the zerker and medic have the speed to run. Anyway, what's_his_name from earlier stated that if there are 4 husks then the player is doing something wrong and that dodging the husks aren't a problem anyway.

I did not say stay and fight, and the situation is after team wipes in later waves leaving a lone Zerker. Evern if he does run, which he will, he will still have to get in the line of fire to kill them, and it is not always as simple as step out, fire 2 shots, done. What gets spawned can't be controlled, so when you kill 5 of something, then 5 of something is going to spawn, and it is very, very commion to have 3 or more Husks at once in the later waves.



So then why mention the 2%?

because the situations that is being discussed in here is mostly about zerkers soloing waves of hundreds. IMO, if it was truly OP'd then almost anyone could do it, much like the pre-nerf SS class.


Let me explain to you what happens in the real world. In the real world, words mean things. When you said "soloed", the word "solo" has a certain meaning in KF. Want an example? I used a sentence like "only so and so has the skills to exploit the situation." When someone asked about that, I said that I picked a poor word and shouldn't have used "exploit" as a verb. So I misunderstood you. See how easy that is?


Due to the topic being discussed, it did not take a brain surgeon to see that I was not talking about solo mode. you yourself have used the same word in the same way repeatedly throughout this thread. This is a good example of what I mean when I say you twist and ''manipulate''. I know about words, I speak 3 Languages



Exactly. That is why I was on that "out of ammo" tangent earlier. When a team gets over run, everyone is firing their top weapons constantly and when the team wipes with 120+, or even more, specimens left, the surviving player has more specimens left than the start of a solo wave and they have considerably less ammo, especially of the tier 4 weapons, left as well.



Yeah, I wanted to thank you for retracting the the whole "Proven that you know nothing about zerking, and to a point, the game as well. ", "I'm questioning your honesty and Character as well", and "I should have just ignored you, but i said what the hell, but since you have now proven yourself to be dishonest and manipulative, I will be ignoring you from now on." statements.

The manipulative part still stands, you do it quite often, and I'm afraid the Zerker part still stands as well.
My last statement will better exlain why I have not chaneged my mind about your capabilities as a Zerker.

While it is a bad situation, the zerk has the best chance of any perk. No other perk even has a chance except for the medic and that is if he has armor and a katana.

Since I, and others have seen it done, I must disagree.



In my opinion, there are many reasons why the zerker is OP. [URL="http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=47088"][URL]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=47088[/URL][/URL]

I think the biggest thing to reduce is speed. Constant fast speed. Give him quickness (maybe 6 seconds of full speed then a slowdown) but remove the always-on speed.

The other thing is to simply make him what everyone already claims he is; "melee." Prevent him from carrying anything other than melee weapons. Everyone says that he can't do ranged damage. Make it that way. I'd even take the 9mm away from him.

Altering the specimens to correct the zerker's OP is the wrong approach. That is treating the symptoms rather than the cause.

Just because Scrary Ghost says something does not make it law, if he posts code or vids, then ok, but when it is just an opinion of his, then that is all it is. Scary has mastered the zerker class, maybe even the whole game, so using him as an example is not fair to the other people that are not on his level, which is most of them. I have watched his vids, and I have played with him several times, we have won together, and also wiped together (he is in my friends list too), as a Zerker he is in the top half percent, so what may be a cake walk for him, may be a challenge for others.

So, do we change the game because of the top 2%, or leave it as is for the other 98%?

 

[Aze]

@Aze

FP's and scrakes are normaly not the deciding factor.

Umm, yes they are. All other specimen can be handled by any perk without too much trouble (you can kill all of them with just your 9mm basicly, which i would call quite manageable by all perks). If you are a class who can't handle one or the other of the Scrake/FP "with ease" however, even if you save only those 2 specimens to the end you will still pretty much inevitably die anyway, unless you are REALLY skilled. So they are definitely the deciding factors to wether or not you POTENTIALLY can solo a wave. Doesn't mean that any other specimen can't kill you anyway

The only perk that can kill any specimen without too much trouble and with unlimited, cheap and perked weaponry is the Zerker. Support, Demo and Sharpie can kill them all, yes, but they will have limited ammo to do so and trying to kill these 2 specimen alone with any of those perks is way riskier than with the kiting solo-Zerker.

Zerker needs to have either of these 2 heavy enemies as a nemesis. Fleshpounds are clearly the better choice as the nemesis for the Zerker as Zerkers fills a role as one of the main anti-Scrake perks (Zerker+Sharpie are still currently the best anti-Scrake perks). Requring ammo to kill the FP would make it more similar to the other perks in the way that they have a finite / limited source to kill that specimen. No, it doesn't remove the ability to kill everything by yourself as a Zerker but it would definitely discourage such ramboing behaviour, as cooperating with your team would dispose of them in a much better/safer/quicker way.

So, do we change the game because of the top 2%, or leave it as is for the other 98%?

Im an ok player, but probably not even close within those top 2%. Yesterday I killed the remaining 200 enemies with a quite crappy group on a 6-man Suicidal server on wave 10/10 on West London without breaking a sweat. I was a Zerker ofc. I would never ever have been able to as easily handle that with any other perk, if it all (due to my lack of skill, not because you can't solo with a different perk). The Zerker IS overpowered (when soloing / ramboing) without any doubt at all, if someone as mediocre as me can handle that so easily!

The Zerker needs some general MINOR nerf like a bit less resistance (from 40% to 35%?) and/or a speed reduction (from 30% to 20/25% would be good as the Zerker is just crazy fast) on top of making the Fleshpound changes i proposed (to make him a Zerker-nemesis, just like all other perks have a nemesis of either the Scrake or FP).
But making him only be able to carry Melee weapons or REDUCE his total weightlimit? That would just be ridiculously silly as no other perk has such lame and boring restrictions.

So to set a more distinct goal for the Zerker when both in a group and when soloing:
Good against / Targets to focus on - Trash in melee range + Scrake
Bad against / Targets to avoid - Trash at (medium/long) distance with ranged attacks + Fleshpound

EDIT:

Altering the specimens to correct the zerker's OP is the wrong approach. That is treating the symptoms rather than the cause.

No it's not in the case of the Fleshpound. If one of the problems is that Zerker can solo this specimen (which he shouldn't be able to do the way he does, with his melee weapons, at least not with the swing/miss method), then the problem lies in the specimen, not the perk.
Yes, the Zerker's (and to lesser extent the Medic's) perked speed is also a problem here, but not entirely. If you fix the Fleshie's swing/miss-exploit, you can keep the movement speed bonus (most of it, as i agreed it's a tad too high) without still making him so soloing-overpowered. Cuz he needs SOME speed to function the way as a perk.

Look at it from 2 angles:
1) Nerfing the movement speed too much - Hooray, the FP can't be melee-kited anymore, but now the perk generally sucks to play...
2) Removing the Swing/miss-exploit (+ a minor speed nerf) - Hooray the FP can't be melee-kited anymore, and hooray, the perk is still a fun and functional teamwork-requiring-perk

Which way would you go?

 

[Witzig]

Let me just sumarize both "Solutions" we have come up with so far:


Solution 1: Make the FP the Berserker Counter ZED - Auto Rage after Melee Hits

Solution 2: Reduction of Berserker to Melee Weapons

Solution 3: Minor Reduction of Speed Bonus and/or Damage Resistance


I personally agree that Limiting the Berserker to Melee is quite strange, considering that any other Perk can use Melee Weapons and do something useful with em.

 

[Aze]

Let me just sumarize both "Solutions" we have come up with so far:


Solution 1: Make the FP the Berserker Counter ZED - Auto Rage after Melee Hits

Solution 2: Reduction of Berserker to Melee Weapons

Solution 3: Minor Reduction of Speed Bonus and/or Damage Resistance


I personally agree that Limiting the Berserker to Melee is quite strange, considering that any other Perk can use Melee Weapons and do something useful with em.

"Solution" number 2 is a non-optional choice. Doesn't make any sense in the slightest to make such a weird and boring change for only one perk. It's just a proposal by nutterbutter who hates Zerkers with all his guts, so don't take his crazy (and biased) suggestions too seriously.

And add:

Solution 4: Make the FP's missed attacks not reset the rage-timer - Makes the FP harder to solo as a Zerker and even the Zerker would require a ranged weapon to safely LoS-kite the FP, like all other anti-fp-weak perks needs to do as well.

 

[Witzig]

Solution 1: Make the FP the Berserker Counter ZED - Auto Rage after Melee Hits

Solution 2: Reduction of Berserker to Melee Weapons

Solution 3: Minor Reduction of Speed Bonus and/or Damage Resistance

Solution 4: Make the FP's missed attacks not reset the rage-timer - Makes the FP harder to solo as a Zerker and even the Zerker would require a ranged weapon to safely LoS-kite the FP, like all other anti-fp-weak perks needs to do as well.

I personally don't see a pressing need to change the Berserker , but i think it doesn't hurt to discuss the Topic.

Even though i don't agree with limiting the Berserker to Melee Weapons, it would be judgemental to not include it. We can always start a new Thread with a Poll on all Options.