Community Opinion: Berserker Overpowered?

[Benjamin]

So it's more squads spawning right after each other I'd think, like Bill and Wail said.

And as I said, this isn't normal behaviour. Special squads aren't supposed to be able to spawn like that, so it must be a bug.

 

[outofrealman]

I'm putting you on ignore. Why? Because you absolutely refuse to read any of my posts yet you respond to them with absolutely inane responses. The point of the thread is that the zerker is OP.

Zerker is OP WHEN, AND ONLY WHEN
1. they are on their own
2. zed number is high enough to make any other perk run out of ammo.

They are just fine for 90% of peopel when they stick with the team. Because even on HoE number of zed is not high enough to actually make other perks run out of ammo and "down to 9mm" if you play correctly cos you at least have two main weapons, normally (may be except LAW holder).

So, yes. That is exactly what my reply was about. EXACTLY when the wave starts are every player has full ammo and all players stay alive. Then, all of a sudden, the players always run out of ammo.

So they are doign it wrong!! Clearly...

Players die all of the time. This is something that I'll never understand. I die in the game. All of the time. Players in the games I'm in die all of the time. Yet somehow this never happens to anyone else. Everyone else can make headshots at 100 meters every time. Everyone else can solo 100+ specimens with a 300+ ping. Personally, I can't. Having a half second to a second delay between me firing a pistol and the round hitting a specimen throws me off. No one else though. Everyone else plays a 300+ ping better than I can play a 30 ping. Everyone else keeps their entire team alive for the whole game. I wish I was that good.

And if you think that the zerker is only OP because they "dont need to worry about ammo." then you haven't read my posts. Like you say you have.

What bersker is better than other perks? Speed, resistance, ammo. And if you stick with the team which you SHOULD, clot grab dont make such a difference.
Resistance: berserker just NEED them if they stick with the team, end of story.
Speed: as I said before, medic have speed bonus too, so unless you remove ANY speed bonus, you dont change ANYHING.
Clot grab: ONLY comes in handy when you are on your own. Because you SHOULD NOT be grab by a clot as any ranged perk. Fail to watch your back or teamates fail to cover you? You deserve to fail.

So, WHICH PART of my conclusion is flase?

There ya go. That's the point. And that situation happens all of the time. The team wipes and the zerker kites the rest of the wave.

CLEARLY, it only happen "all the time" for you. It dont happen "all the time" when I play, and it dont happen "all the time" most people here.

And what? The zerker doesn't kite once more? Give out cash at the end of the wave? Carry weapons to the trader? Once again, the zerker is the only perk that can do that.

Have you even try? After the whole team is dead, unless the trader is kind enough to be right beside the spawn point, you just CANNOT spread your cash in time. Wait for them to make it to the trader already used nearly 30 seconds, and you have FIVE people to give dosh to. Each of them needs AT LEAST 500 for armour + one weapon (they should have "some" dosh in their pocket). And then, the wave starts long before you can go to anywhere easy to defend. And you know what will ALWAYS spawn at the begining of the wave? Fleshpounds.

Clear enough?

The point is that the zerker is the only perk that does this. The only perk that can do this. The perk that always survives. You don't think it is the least bit unusual that the commando doesn't occasionally survive and kite till the end of the wave? Or the flamer? Or support? That is is always the zerker.

Like I said, unless zed number is high enough to make other perk run out of ammo (such as 150+), berserker is NOT the only perk can do that.

And if that happens, even berserker win, it dont change much. Like I said above.

Want a perfect example? The situation I spoke of earlier in this thread where the three husks spawned at the start of the wave. If I had zerker speed I could have simply ran down the the tunnel which would have physically prevented 2 husks from shooting at me. I could run in the closest lane and then cut in front of the car to block the third husk from shooting me. But since I was support, I didn't have the speed. And since I was support, once my armor was gone, my health dropped immediately and of course I slowed down. The other problems was that at least one siren spawned on the hill and a group of clots dropped from the top of the tunnel to the road. Not sure if I took any damage from the siren or not, but those clots were the death of me. I had to kill those clots before I got to the tunnel. If one of them had grabbed me then everything I was running from would have caught me and I would have been stationary for the husk. So while the husks were out of my range with the aa12, rather than dodging and running, I had to make sure that I killed those clots before I got to the tunnel. Now if I had the zerker, it was have been a simple run from trouble no matter which direction I wanted to go, but the tunnel would have been best.

If you are support... you should SHOOT those clots or sirens if they are in the way... different perks require different way to paly... you dodge a bunch of sirens as berserkers because you need to close distance to do damage and get yourself hurt. But as support, you just kill them... and you kill them fast.

Rare cases to you maybe. Not to everyone else. It happens all of the time. According to you, those cases aren't rare anyway because you and others can easily kite 100+ specimens with the other perks.

Have you even notice the poll? Have you even read other's experience? Not much people even have experience of "the team is wiped while one man able to make it out of the camping spot". Not to mention the last guy able to win......

The fix is easy. The easiest way to reduce the speed of the zerker and medic to normal speeds. Still want to give them quickness? (Which is understandable) Give them a speed boost for 5 seconds then off for 20 or 30 seconds. Anything to prevent them from using their speed to get out of any situation and shaping the fight as they want it.

Just but a katana and then switch to ANY perk without speed bonus and try to melee (do it on wave 1-5). You will have a good idea of what will happen.

(shouldn't you at least try it first...?)

The other easy fix is some type of cool down period that prevents them from attacking multiple times a second every single second from the first spawn till patty dies. But with their current speed, the second "fix" can still be circumvented.

So when facing a bunch of clots, after you kill 5, you need to back off just because one more clot is there? No, just no.

Actually many people do. Many people sy the zerker is never OP in any situation. But it is the zerker's OP that allows them to run off on their own. It is their OP that allows them to survive when the team gets wiped. It is their OP that allows them to run out of a bad situation where the team gets wiped.

As players dies, the remaining team uses more and more ammo. And that can't be ignored.

So no, the zerker isn't OP compared to a fully loaded support specialist and they both fighting clots.

No, the zerker isn't OP compared to a fully loaded commando and they both are fighting stalkers.

No, the zerker isn't OP compared to a fully loaded firebug and they both are fighting crawlers.

However, go to the middle of the wave when their ammo is dropping and their armor proper is gone. Zerker still has fully perked weapons and permanent armor.

Have some players die and make the other perks pick up the kills. Grenades are used. Ammo is used. Pauses due to reloads are impactful because fewer players are firing while a player reloads. Specimens get closer and closer because the overall firepower has dropped. Lethality drops.

Except for the zerker.

Picking the one point at the start of the wave when all perks are fully loaded and fully armored to compare perks is the worst point to make a comparison because comparison then is useless.

Laters.

Reall... you talk like you run into a LOT of good berserkers who are good enough to make it out when the teams get wiped and good enough to kite untill everything is dead. However, ANY OTHER perks users you run into sucks. Because you metion many many times: they die all the time.

Consider yourself lucky that all berserkers users are good and any other perks users sucks. It never happen for me. And after reading many of the posts here....

nope. Most people dont have these bad experience.

 

[outofrealman]

Hell on Earth, Wyre, bunker entrance tunnel with bomb door on one end 2 doors on other with a morgue on the right. Must have been wave 9 or 10. Had two groups containing 2 fp's each spawn by the double doors, so essentially a x4 fp spawn. We were able to take down all four, lost our Commando with everyone else pretty beat up. From the bunker door side comes another x2 fp spawn and the remaining sharpshooter, medic and 3 supports die. Was a pretty "awesome" time, just ask BSwearer.

So it's more squads spawning right after each other I'd think, like Bill and Wail said.

From my observation, only some spawn points can spawn fleshpounds. And after one of the update, they ALWAYS spawn zeds using cloest possible spawnpoint where nobody can see.

Which really screw up the spawning at the begining of the wave. Bacause mutiple groups of zed will spawn together. And the game will deside to spawn fleshpound at the gegining of the wave no matter what. And it try to choose closest possible spawn points, and if out of those usable point can spawn fps, it will deside to spawn 1 or 2 fleshpounds. If both spawn point deside to spawn two fleshpounds, you get 4 of them. So, it makes 4 fleshpound and 8 scrakes possible at the begining of wave 10. Because one spawn point can spawn two fleshpound and two scrakes at most. And because two group of two fleshpounds spawns together, it only triger the "fleshpounds already spawned" situation AFTER four of them already spawn.

And @ wave 9 solo, I sometimes get 3 fleshpounds, so, in theory, it is possible to have 6 fleshpounds spawn together @ wave 10.

Simlar case could happen on scrakes, and possibly every zeds. And as far as I remember before they screw up the spawning, 4 fleshpounds never happen.

 

[Dark Seraphim]

Hell on Earth, Wyre, bunker entrance tunnel with bomb door on one end 2 doors on other with a morgue on the right. Must have been wave 9 or 10. Had two groups containing 2 fp's each spawn by the double doors, so essentially a x4 fp spawn. We were able to take down all four, lost our Commando with everyone else pretty beat up. From the bunker door side comes another x2 fp spawn and the remaining sharpshooter, medic and 3 supports die. Was a pretty "awesome" time, just ask BSwearer.

So it's more squads spawning right after each other I'd think, like Bill and Wail said.

I was the commando there. It was probably the most epic moment I can recall in the last couple hundred hours of KF. There were 2 FP directly in front of us and 2 more appeared before we even began reloading. It was so glorious. Even if we did wipe, I didn't feel too bad.

Worst part was, I survived a hit from a FP and managed to kill him with a jumping slow-mo headshot burst. Then a siren down the hall killed me with a 1 hp scream. -.-


On a side note. Here's my 2 cents on the zerker thing. Zerkers feel pretty much right on to me when it comes to working with a team. Given a wide hallway or road they can strafe around and maneuver well enough to make a "soft" buffer against a horde. Given a tight doorway, they can katana/chainsaw/axe/whatever and when supported by a dedicated medic, hold it rather solidly. The damage resistance here is critical. It's a pretty oft used tactic in suicidal. (not seen it so much yet on HoE)

I occasionally see the problem where people die and a zerker has to kite the wave. It happens. Just happened to me tonight, but only with like 30 or so. Frankly, that's completely acceptable. I'm pretty often surprised if a zerker can solo 100+ waves on HoE, no matter the map. Seems like a siren or husk will spawn poorly and take off your armor quick and if you aren't careful with cover, you'll get pwnd pretty quick. Not to mention crawlers that can take 20% of your health in a swipe. It's pretty hard even for zerkers as they are now. Just saying.

I voted slightly over powered at this point. On Mountainpass just today, I we completed the map with 1 demo, 1 support, 1 medic, 1 commando, 2 zerkers. I was the demo and really didn't have much to do, barely got 90 kills from waves 7-10. Normally I'd be taking down FPs, bombing clusters, double tapping sirens, etc. But I wasn't needed so much. The 2 zerkers took up on opposite sides of the defense spot and were each able to handle scrakes solo (no surprise with the fire axe) and also able to handle FPs solo. With some creative kiting and the occasional swing, they both managed to take out a FP at the same time while we covered the rest of the zeds. To me THIS seems a bit OP. They can solo Scrakes and FPs rather reliably, and I don't know if they were the best zerkers or not, but I'd say they were better than me and I'm pretty decent. (lvl6, 10m damage)

So here's the problem in a nutshell. They can solo waves by kiting. They've been doing this (along with medics) since steam released it. So this isn't some new thing, they just got a buff so they can do it a bit more reliably. Shouldn't we be looking into why they can handle nearly any zed one on one with absolutely no problem? Perhaps a little tweak to FP speed or a -slightly- increased attack range such that a zerker can't swipe and backpedal without taking ANY damage. The scrake doesn't bug me so much, but killing FPs without taking a hit just by backpedaling seemed a bit much to me.

Also, the suggestion about lowering their resistance to screams and husks? (ranged attacks) That's bad. I've a new appreciation for Firebugs fire resist since starting to play HoE. 2-3 shots can completely kill you. Maybe a few more pending armor. As a zerker, you can take maybe 4ish. Not sure, haven't tested. Main issue is that they hit hella hard regardless of damage resist, and do a bit of Damage over Time. I don't think weakening a zerker to them makes it any better. Especially when I've seen REALLY good zerkers dodge shots all day long. (I can't quite, seems like it always hits the ground behind me and I take damage any way I move...maybe I just don't have the trick down yet). And as far as sirens, well it's dangerous even for a zerker to move in on a siren if they aren't careful. Walk into a siren and let her scream hit you full force once. You'll be blinking red. If you aren't careful with decapping her she'll already almost kill you. Not to mention two or three at once. Adding a ranged weakness will likely nerf the zerker into oblivion. Especially considering they're a front lines character who would be the automatic target of said zeds.

It'd probably be a better medic nerf than zerker nerf this ranged damage weakness (stick to the middle/back and heal and support) But then they wouldn't quite make the great tanks they are (in normal-suicidal...only acceptable once or twice on HoE, too much damage output)

 

[the 1st wasted]

Reducing the Zerker to normal speed has got to be the most ridiculous idea yet.

A cool down period for the Katana, realy? What hapens when 3 to 5 gorefasts come at you and you miss a few headshots (which happens often to a lot of Zerkers), and then you go around a corner, or into a hallway and there are 4 crawlers, 3 clots, 3 gorefasts and more comming at you? A Zerker cannot simply run away in every given situation.

Maybe they should also add weapons cool down as well, or as someone else said, weapon repair / breakage.

At least UndeddJ and others are trying to come up with ideas that will make it harder, not impossible.

 

[nutterbutter]

Reducing the Zerker to normal speed has got to be the most ridiculous idea yet.

A cool down period for the Katana, realy? What hapens when 3 to 5 gorefasts come at you and you miss a few headshots (which happens often to a lot of Zerkers), and then you go around a corner, or into a hallway and there are 4 crawlers, 3 clots, 3 gorefasts and more comming at you? A Zerker cannot simply run away in any given situation.

Maybe they should also add weapons cool down as well, or as someone else said, weapon repair / breakage.

At least UndeddJ and others are trying to come up with ideas that will make it harder, not impossible.

There is a weapons cool down restriction in the game already. It is called "reloading." And unlike every melee weapon, those weapons actually render themselves closer to useless with each shot because they also run out of ammo.

The simple fact that a zerker can fire his perked weapons, doing maximum possible damage with every attack, as fast as possible, from the very second he spawns until patty dies. He never ever has to stop or even slow down putting out maximum damage at any point in the game.

As for "What hapens when 3 to 5 gorefasts come at you and you miss a few headshots (which happens often to a lot of Zerkers), and then you go around a corner, or into a hallway and there are 4 crawlers, 3 clots, 3 gorefasts and more comming at you? A Zerker cannot simply run away in any given situation. "

Every other perk has to start backpedaling and reloading or switch weapons before the reload is triggered. BTW, a zerker could just run through those specimens you listed with no problems. Every other perk better hope that reload happens quick enough and he can kill the clots first. Because if ANY OTHER PERK tries to run through that crown and doesn't kill ALL of the clots, the clot left standing is going to grab the player and the rest of the specimens close in.

Again, zerker has all of the advantages in your scenario.

 

[Benjamin]

He never ever has to stop or even slow down putting out maximum damage at any point in the game.

This is not true at all, in fact through most of the game he'll be only doing half his potential damage unless he tries particularly hard to attack the specimens from behind, which is not possible if they are targeting you.

 

[nutterbutter]

This is not true at all, in fact through most of the game he'll be only doing half his potential damage unless he tries particularly hard to attack the specimens from behind, which is not possible if they are targeting you.

He is doing maximum damage of that swing with the swing. My point is that the zerker can equip the katana and do maximum damage with that swing with every swing.

Where as a fully equipped support has a limit on maximim damage because the aa12 will run out of ammo when fired continually. Then the support switches to a shotgun and is now doing less damage. Then he switches to HC or m79 and is doing less damage. then switch to 9mm and even doing less damage. Then he is down to knife doing the least damage.

Meanwhile the zerker is still doing max damage attacks every attack.

 

[the 1st wasted]

There is a weapons cool down restriction in the game already. It is called "reloading." And unlike every melee weapon, those weapons actually render themselves closer to useless with each shot because they also run out of ammo.

This is a completely ludicris comparison.


This part is directed at this post, and your post above this one.

Lean to better manage your weapon prioritization, reloads, try aiming, and stop spamming. Another idea. Buy extra weapons, that is what I and a whole lot of other players do regardless of the perk being used.

The simple fact that a zerker can fire his perked weapons, doing maximum possible damage with every attack, as fast as possible, from the very second he spawns until patty dies. He never ever has to stop or even slow down putting out maximum damage at any point in the game.

It is a melee weapon, it does not share the same restrictions as powder based weapons, not in real life or fantasy.

As for "What hapens when 3 to 5 gorefasts come at you and you miss a few headshots (which happens often to a lot of Zerkers), and then you go around a corner, or into a hallway and there are 4 crawlers, 3 clots, 3 gorefasts and more comming at you? A Zerker cannot simply run away in any given situation. "

Every other perk has to start backpedaling and reloading or switch weapons before the reload is triggered. BTW, a zerker could just run through those specimens you listed with no problems. Every other perk better hope that reload happens quick enough and he can kill the clots first. Because if ANY OTHER PERK tries to run through that crown and doesn't kill ALL of the clots, the clot left standing is going to grab the player and the rest of the specimens close in.

That is completely untrue, and it is because of statements like that, that I come to the conclusion that you know absolutly nothing about playing as a Zerker, and before you tell me that you are a L6 Zerker, understand that a players level means nothing. A person could start at L0 with any perk, never make it past wave 3, but in time that person would make it to L6.

Again, zerker has all of the advantages in your scenario.

A decent team should not find themselves in that situation. But then again, from reading your posts, it seems you and your team dies pretty much every time.

Support has the abitity to kill muliple Zeds with a single shot, so in actuality every one round counts as 2 to 6 rounds, so Zerker swings once and kills one Zed, Support fires one round kills 2 to 6 zeds. How is that any diff from the zerker melee? Maybe that should be changed as well.

 

[Raziel]

Wait, wait ... what ? You're comparing Berserker and Support ? Seriously ?

First off, shotgun is limited to around 60 shells, which isn't much.
Katana doesn't need ammo, nor does it have to be reloaded.
Katana has a higher rate of fire, even with perk bonuses not included.
Katana is way lighter than a shotgun and even gives a speed bonus.

A shotgun can only rip through multiple enemies if they line up, so your comparison '1 shell = 6 bullets' is somewhat far-fetched.
Even though Support is annoyingly powerful, I don't think it's overpowered.

 

[the 1st wasted]

Wait, wait ... what ? You're comparing Berserker and Support ? Seriously ?

Trying to point out that Support can just as easily be considered op'd.

First off, shotgun is limited to around 60 shells, which isn't much.

With the ability to kill more than one zed per shell, which happens 99.9% of the time.
AA12: One twenty round drum in the weapon, 5 spare drums= 120
Shotgun cost is 150something, giving the player the ability to buy several and have them as backups for when the other is empty.
Quite often when I play as Support on HoE, by the start of wave 9 I have at least 2 spare shotguns, and more often than not a spare AA12 at the camping spot.

Katana doesn't need ammo, nor does it have to be reloaded.

It is a Katana.

Katana has a higher rate of fire, even with perk bonuses not included.

The AA12 does not have a high rate of fire not to mention it is coupled with massive damage output?

Katana is way lighter than a shotgun and even gives a speed bonus.

Support 24 Kg, Zerker 15 Kg. Support gets, weight, ammo, shotgun damage and penetration increase bonus, and increase in nade capacity and nade damage.

Speed bonus:
Support class = Camping
Zerker class = Mobile


A shotgun can only rip through multiple enemies if they line up, so your comparison '1 shell = 6 bullets' is somewhat far-fetched.

That is completely false. I have seen Support guys do this with all 3 shotguns more times than I can count, I have seen them clear an entire choke point / hallway containing more than 6 zeds with the Hunting shotgun alt fire, and I have done it myself.

Edit: I just tested this with the test map, and they do NOT have to line up.

I said 2 to 6, if you quote me, then please do so accuratly.

Even though Support is annoyingly powerful, I don't think it's overpowered.

Overall exactly the point I'm getting at when it comes to Zerker and Support. Both can be seen as OP'd in some situations, and in others, not.

 

[Raziel]

Ok, you maybe right.
But I was talking about Shotgun, not AA12.
Using AA12 to fight trash mobs is a bad idea after all.
120 shells aren't much either, because AA12 is a ammohog, especially when it comes to Fleshpounds.

 

[the 1st wasted]

Ok, you maybe right.
But I was talking about Shotgun, not AA12.
Using AA12 to fight trash mobs is a bad idea after all.
120 shells aren't much either, because AA12 is a ammohog, especially when it comes to Fleshpounds.

I agree, thats why I get the extra shotguns. I see too many players ussing the AA12 for trash, only to be almost out of ammo when 2 FP's come at us.

 

[outofrealman]

It is funny that ammo is actually "that much" of a problem for players, suddenly? I ONLY use hunting shotgun for alt-fire, and I get 120 shells with aa12, and I get ... 31 "powerful shots". So I have around 150 shots.

Just say I suck real bad and only able to kill one zed with each shot on adverage. I can kill 150 zeds already... How bad is a team needed if I kill 150 zed myself and that wave still not finished...? Not to mention each alt-fire can kill up to 10 zeds, even you spam some of the shots, you still kill at least 2-3 zeds per shot...

Man... support is already considered the perk that run out of ammo fastest and yet I nearly never run out of ammo...

And I myself actually use aa12 for trash too... when bigs shows, fire a few with aa12 then use hunting shotgun to do real damage. (dont ask me why, but 4 alt-fire of huntingshotgun kill 6-man HoE fp. sometimes it is possible to use only 3, I have NO idea why, each alt-fire should only do only 1600 dmg and 800 on fps, yet it do CRAZILY good agains scrake and fps) And... in fact with that much spread and that much bulelts come out from hunting shotgun, it actually do better AoE then GLs in quite some suituations.

And btw, cooldown with katana? If that's like 10 swing and 2 second cooldown, yeah, it is acceptable... but you are punishing EVERY berserkers playing as intended. While most people think in that case berserker is balanced.

Oh wait... some people also ask for removing the speed bonus... and now you cant even dodge 2 crawlers and you cant attack bacause you need cool down.... what can I say... Perfect?

 

[Steeps]

After thinking about it I'm not entirely against what #206 said. Only issue is I'm afraid it won't do anything. Sure, it might make it slightly more difficult for zerkers to operate (especially by themselves), but they'll still be able to do what they do with no problems. It'll weed out the bottom few but 80% will still be able to kite the entire map, and the remaining 20% will probably be able to do so again with some practice. It won't solve the problem people have with him.

Point is, he'll be strong as long as he has a speed bonus and some minor resistance. Take that away and the class will be useless. That's why I'm saying this nerf isn't going to be as easy as everyone thinks it is. We want to get rid of the ramboing and solo play potential, but don't want to completely ruin the perk, either.

 

[Aze]

After thinking about it I'm not entirely against what #206 said. Only issue is I'm afraid it won't do anything. Sure, it might make it slightly more difficult for zerkers to operate (especially by themselves), but they'll still be able to do what they do with no problems. It'll weed out the bottom few but 80% will still be able to kite the entire map, and the remaining 20% will probably be able to do so again with some practice. It won't solve the problem people have with him.

Point is, he'll be strong as long as he has a speed bonus and some minor resistance. Take that away and the class will be useless. That's why I'm saying this nerf isn't going to be as easy as everyone thinks it is. We want to get rid of the ramboing and solo play potential, but don't want to completely ruin the perk, either.

Nerfig the Zerker has to be done carefully, yes. Bringing his speed down to the Medic's, reducing his resistance to 30-35% ish and changing the FP to not have it's rage timer when it MISSES a swing (good explanation why it only nerfs Zerker kiting and nothing else can be found in post #194) would bring the perk down just in its place imo.

No longer as solo overpowered (against Fleshpounds), not as "invincible" (receives more damage from all sources) and not as superfast as it is currently. All this without underpowering the perk, without making soloing impossible for the Zerker, just more difficult, more in line like it is for the other perks. (Zerker still has a minor advantage ofc, just not as way ahead as now).

Just making the perk more team-reliant. Perfect imo

 

[outofrealman]

I always welcome these changes. Although this dont fix anything for "some" people here.

 

[Undedd Jester]

@ Aze

I'd find that acceptable. The tactics would still work, but would much greater punish mistakes. On paper it seems like it would require an acceptable amount of skill to pull off. Plus it can always be revised if the problem remains.

 

[the 1st wasted]

It is funny that ammo is actually "that much" of a problem for players, suddenly? I ONLY use hunting shotgun for alt-fire, and I get 120 shells with aa12, and I get ... 31 "powerful shots". So I have around 150 shots.

A lot of players shoot to soon and have to fire 2 to 3 times to kill, instead of waiting for the zed to get closer.

Just say I suck real bad and only able to kill one zed with each shot on adverage. I can kill 150 zeds already... How bad is a team needed if I kill 150 zed myself and that wave still not finished...? Not to mention each alt-fire can kill up to 10 zeds, even you spam some of the shots, you still kill at least 2-3 zeds per shot...

Man... support is already considered the perk that run out of ammo fastest and yet I nearly never run out of ammo...

And I myself actually use aa12 for trash too... when bigs shows, fire a few with aa12 then use hunting shotgun to do real damage. (dont ask me why, but 4 alt-fire of huntingshotgun kill 6-man HoE fp. sometimes it is possible to use only 3, I have NO idea why, each alt-fire should only do only 1600 dmg and 800 on fps, yet it do CRAZILY good agains scrake and fps) And... in fact with that much spread and that much bulelts come out from hunting shotgun, it actually do better AoE then GLs in quite some suituations.

AA12 can be used for trash, but some players sell thier other weapons just so they can get it, or they do not have enough dosh for full ammo loads, then they go spam happy on anything that moves.

And btw, cooldown with katana? If that's like 10 swing and 2 second cooldown, yeah, it is acceptable... but you are punishing EVERY berserkers playing as intended. While most people think in that case berserker is balanced.

Oh wait... some people also ask for removing the speed bonus... and now you cant even dodge 2 crawlers and you cant attack bacause you need cool down.... what can I say... Perfect?

 

[Spicy]

At least this thread is a fun "What if?"/ theorycraft scenario.