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Commando Balancing Adjustments

Commando Balancing Adjustments

  • Yes.

    Votes: 1 14.3%
  • Some are, others aren't. (A post elaborating would be appreciated)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No. (A post elaborating would be appreciated)

    Votes: 6 85.7%

  • Total voters
    7

Azukki

Grizzled Veteran
Jul 7, 2009
1,512
128
63
The Commando is currently one of the better balanced perks in the game, I think; he's very useful for his role, but greatly limited outside it. Nevertheless, nothing's ever perfect in the opinion of everyone, so let's discuss how we think the Commando and his current weapons could be improved. Let's not argue about the need/lack thereof for a MG, or suggestions of new weapons in this thread, please.

First: I have a suggestion for a new Commando perk effect, which could be added with a small nerfing of the damage bonus, to keep the overall balance. It's not really needed and it may be impractical to bother incorporating into the game at this point, (Save it for KF2 maybe?) but I think it would be extremely fitting for Commandos, and would do well to further establish his trash-killer role.
"Do X% extra damage with Bullpup/AK47/M4/SCAR if this extra damage would kill the target"
or in shorthand, "Finisher Damage"
The implications of this effect are insignificant against larger enemies, saving you only one round occasionally, but on smaller enemies in large numbers it becomes very useful; the saved rounds add up. For example, instead of double-tapping suicidal clots with a SCAR, leaving them with a sliver of health, requiring a switch of weapons or a third overkill SCAR shot, you'd kill the clot with the double tap. This will save you substantial amounts of ammo throughout the waves, without increasing the Commando's effectiveness outside of his role of "taking out the trash."

Second: the SCAR has too much spare ammo; it's not restrictive enough to encourage conservative ammo use, which should be of concern to a Commando. This also makes sense realistically and logically; 7.62x51 is notably heavier than 7.62x39, as is the nature and purpose of intermediate rifle rounds compared to rifle rounds. I suggest a nerf from 15 magazines down to 12 magazines. (300 rounds at level 6, 240 offperk) This should still be plenty, if you use it deliberately, but little enough to encourage less spraying.

Third: The M4 needs a buff if it wants to compete as an equal to the AK. I used to disagree with this, but playing with it over time on higher difficulties has had me change my mind. Here are some suggestions to consider. I'm not suggesting all of them be incorporated, but they're all something worth considering, and some combination of them could bring the M4 up to par with the AK, I think.
-Make it weigh 5kg (allowing it, a SCAR, and a 4 weight tertiary weapon to be held)
-Reduce recoil; with its high rate of fire, the recoil winds up about as bad as the AK's, and this attribute is something that should be in the M4's favor, between the two
-Increase magazine capacity. 32 (40 at level 6) or 36 (45 at lvl 6) would be nice even numbers. Along with the extra rounds being useful, the different numbers would just help to differentiate the two weapons.
-Make the red dot itself smaller, making precision headshots easier by obscuring less of the target. If the body of the optic were less vision-obstructing that would be good too, but that's bound to be too much work to be a practical use of time.
-Reduce price, maybe to $750, ($225 at level 6) although this somewhat admits defeat to the AK and makes the M4 a tier 1.5, which isn't a greatly useful role when getting a SCAR and AK isn't hard at all, especially when spawning with an AK.
-Make it the spawn weapon for level 6, instead of an AK. A mildly inferior weapon is vastly more likely to be kept than to be bought.

Fourth: Still talking about the M4, (and now including the M4203) but this isn't an issue of balance, just audio aesthetics. Ditch the looping sound for full auto M4 fire, just play the semi auto fire sound effect once per shot. The looping sound doesn't synch up with the shots fired, which is unintuitive, and if you fire only one round, you hear the echo without the bang, which is really weird and unappealing. The other commando rifles sound leaps and bounds better. This critique also applies to the medic guns, but it's not so bad for them, since they're far less deliberate-use oriented.


I don't have substantial suggestions for the AK or Bullpup, I love 'em as is. :D
TL;DR? Understandable. Just skim for underlined bits.
 
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C_Gibby

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 18, 2010
7,282
2,720
0
NO

Commando is in fact, the best balanced perk there is in the entire game! He is fine as he is. The only thing I disagree with is the 6kg weight for the bullpup and the 5kg weight for the SCAR, which should at least be swapped around.

The SCAR ammo is fine, the weapon is suited to its mass anti-trash role. It's not even an OP weapon at all, plus its ammo can prove to be quite expensive.

The damage suggestion you have made makes little sense. It's fine as it is, why make it more complex?

As for the M4, that is my current absolute favourite weapon in the game, as much as I opposed the addition of a weapon of its style. It's so accurate, its recoil is minimal, and it has a wonderfully quick refire. When used in semi auto with adequate range, it is absolutely fantastic and it is the gun I find myself using the most in any situation. The AK is suited to its role - it's a good weapon to whip out when you have gorefasts in your face and want to dispatch them quickly. M4 for range, AK for CQB.
 
Last edited:

Splatpope

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 1, 2012
1,300
250
0
Belgium
It's true that the M4 full auto sound feels like someone's farting in a balloon and should be changed.
 

Azukki

Grizzled Veteran
Jul 7, 2009
1,512
128
63
The damage suggestion you have made makes little sense. It's fine as it is, why make it more complex?
Basically just to have a perk effect for Commando that actually directly gives him advantages towards weaker specimens, instead of giving him general advantages on his guns which happen to be suitable for killing weaker specimens. Like I said, it's not really needed, just something that could further solidify his role as a trash killer, and get rid of the frustration of consistently needing to waste an extra round on a trash zed with a tiny sliver of health left for some rifle/level/difficulty/zed combinations.

M4 and SCAR, we disagree, but considering the low likelihood of either of us convincing the other an opinion contrary to our experiences, I suppose I'll leave it at that.
I almost find it hard to believe you like the looping full auto M4 sound, though, but okay.
 

C_Gibby

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 18, 2010
7,282
2,720
0
Basically just to have a perk effect for Commando that actually directly gives him advantages towards weaker specimens, instead of giving him general advantages on his guns which happen to be suitable for killing weaker specimens. Like I said, it's not really needed, just something that could further solidify his role as a trash killer, and get rid of the frustration of consistently needing to waste an extra round on a trash zed with a tiny sliver of health left for some rifle/level/difficulty/zed combinations.

M4 and SCAR, we disagree, but considering the low likelihood of either of us convincing the other an opinion contrary to our experiences, I suppose I'll leave it at that.
I almost find it hard to believe you like the looping full auto M4 sound, though, but okay.
If you're using full-auto with the M4, you're doing it wrong. The sound does need fixing though, just like with the mp5.

He doesn't need any more advantages against weaker specimens. He obliterates them with ease as it is. And are you honestly frustrated with "wasting" a single round from a pool of many hundreds of rounds extra?

How long have you been playing commando? With the amount of time I've had under my belt, I have not had a single complaint with the perk, ever. It's perfect for its role in the game, and it is perfectly balanced as it is. The bullpup's limited use in HOE is the only questionable thing, but nothing else.
 
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Azukki

Grizzled Veteran
Jul 7, 2009
1,512
128
63
Full auto is a feature they added to the game; obviously it's not intended to be overlooked 100% of the time by all players, so it might as well not sound so wonky. Plus, the M4203 can't go semi auto. I know I didn't mention that specifically before, but I meant to include the M4203 variant along with the M4 for the suggested audio change. Using the M4203 deliberately with single shots is actually where the looping sound is most often heard sounding strangely.

Using another round on a specimen isn't that huge of a deal, but it is a slight annoyance that when if the weapon were just a tiny smidgeon stronger you'd use 2/3rds or even half the ammo killing it. "Waste" was carried away wording, yes, but it does make some rifles pretty inefficient under certain circumstances.

Classic ad hominem, but anyways, I began to get into it just before the heavy metal update. I'm gonna guess I've thrown about 400 hours into Commando? Something like that. 38.2m damage.
 
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Rainydaykid

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 25, 2010
1,010
203
0
TN
I almost always keep my rifles on full auto, it makes it easier to respond to varied threat levels. I can tap off one bullet for a decap, a burst, or full auto for close range husks. I use the AK at all ranges too. I can't remember the last time I even came close to running out of ammo as commando. Currently have close to 88M dmg.
 

Blockbot

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 25, 2011
1,594
661
0
I'm just confused, because what I'm getting from this is "commando's very well balanced...let's change things!" It seems counter-productive. xD
don't think you get it. if we unballance the commando. thers another perk that will be more ballanced than commando. and that could maybe factor to that all the weapons are more equally unballanced. in other words perfectly overpowered ballanced :)

or in otherwords people like myself sometimes they have toomuch time on their hands :)DDDADAd
 

Spicy

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 8, 2010
1,219
162
0
32
New England, the Newer England
don't think you get it. if we unballance the commando. thers another perk that will be more ballanced than commando. and that could maybe factor to that all the weapons are more equally unballanced. in other words perfectly overpowered ballanced :)

or in otherwords people like myself sometimes they have toomuch time on their hands :)DDDADAd
It makes sense once someone explains it to you. :D

I guess I should actually offer input on Azukki's suggestions though.

1. The finisher damage is a cool concept. Reminds me of an ability from Borderlands (I think? Haven't played it in a while) that gave your rounds a % chance of not subtracting out of your ammo pool. If Commando's ammo supply ever gets cut, I'd support the finisher damage because of that smaller ammo pool. As it stands now though, you have plenty of bullets even if you're over-spamming.

2. SCAR ammo, interesting idea. I find that compared to the AK/ M4 I pick my shots more carefully, using my SCAR on semi-auto because of the smaller (25 count) magazine. AK/M4 only have 12 more rounds in the magazine but in the middle of a wave when I'm firing down a hallway, it sure as hell feels like more than that.

But that's going for headshots and trying to conserve ammo. I would imagine that there are Commando players that would say they don't have enough ammo to last through a wave. Take a look at any of the threads about Firebugs not being able to last through a wave because they can no longer stockpile flamethrowers. As long as you pick your shots and have a small amount of mouse-clicking discipline you'll be fine. So while older players might not mind it too much, newer players might not appreciate it.

3. I wouldn't have a problem with these, I'll let others debate the finer points of doing /not doing this. *However* I'll agree with you on the M4's optic. It's not a huge inconvenience, but it does take up much more of the screen then the SCAR's does. That's just me nit-picking though. :\

4. Yeah, full-auto sounds weird. I tend to use it on semi, but again, that's just to conserve ammo/ force me to aim.

Good stuff!
 

Aze

Grizzled Veteran
Mar 19, 2010
1,374
491
83
The only 2 things i would suggest for now are:

*Bullpup weight to 5
*M4 magsize to 32

There are more ideas, but i think those 2 could be done right away without any problems.
 

Roraborialis

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 25, 2012
7
0
0
If we were going to have a high capacity gun for the class, I would have it be an old gun. The PPSH as a teir three would be the best choice for tripwire. Still, I like having to frequently reload as a commando.
The bullpup should be lighter, especially since the mac 10 is better then it at close range, DPS, and weight, even as a commando.
 

Gartley

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 27, 2010
2,347
349
0
UK
www.wildcardproductionstudios.co.uk
Here's my contribution.

No.
No.
NO.

You say yourself the commando is as balanced as it gets, yet you want to mess with it? :confused:

The only thing I would say is I agree C_Gibby about swapping the weapon weights, but that is such a minor thing I don't think it actually matters that much.
 

qhyperhuman

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 27, 2012
2
0
0
Commando

Commando

Commando has been my favorite Perk since I first started playing. The only thing I would change is how you level up. I have been stuck on Level 3 for ever because of the fact that I have to kill stalkers to level up. Doing so much damage is the second part and that is easy. The stalkers are not. I usually can't get to them fast enough before another Perk player gets to them. You would think they would see I was a Commando and know to try to not kill the stalkers unless they absolutely have too. Most of you will probably say I am just complaining, but my friend is a Firebug and he is almost 4 levels above me and he started playing the same time as I did. I feel like I am going nowhere.