Commando balance suggestion

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Bronzen

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 23, 2009
127
5
0
Lol, you guys with the latest patch the commando is the definition of awesome. Before the patch I was able to get a 50 kill lead over my team mates, with the patch I kill stuff even more efficiently. The commando is fine with just the bullpup and no other weapons need to be added. :D
 

Man And A Half

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 8, 2009
201
1
0
Lol, you guys with the latest patch the commando is the definition of awesome. Before the patch I was able to get a 50 kill lead over my team mates, with the patch I kill stuff even more efficiently. The commando is fine with just the bullpup and no other weapons need to be added. :D

Plinking the Crawlers and Clots can be done by anyone. If anything, the changes to the Scrake and Fleshpound make the Commando even more useless, since you'll need Supports / Sharpshooters to kill those fast.
 

Bronzen

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 23, 2009
127
5
0
Lol who said anything about crawlers and clots? I am fully capable of killing gorefasts and bloats as well as scrakes completely solo. FP's with the new update are the only specimens I need help with.
 

Janshi

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 23, 2009
46
0
0
Lol who said anything about crawlers and clots? I am fully capable of killing gorefasts and bloats as well as scrakes completely solo. FP's with the new update are the only specimens I need help with.

Scrakes, I find hard to believe. Just finished a session - all that was left were two scrakes v. me. Looks easy, right? I whittle their health with one grenade, then pull out a shotgun as they rush me. AAAAND close curtains. I kill the first one but get massacred by the second. Perhaps if I had seperated them...but scrakes like to bunch up for some reason. Anyone else noticed this? They like to stay close, reaaal close.
 

Soanos

Member
Jul 2, 2009
569
8
18
Finland
Yes. They follow you and do their melee attacks on the move. I noticed you can stun them with an axe though (at least a berserker can) so it is not so much of a problem.

I personally agree with adding a second weapon to the Commando arsenal.
Let me see:
Medic - No specific weapon, gets a speed bonus, better armour.
Support - 2
 
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Man And A Half

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 8, 2009
201
1
0
Also, stalkers usually stand in the line of fire between normal specimens so everyone kills them without even knowing they were in the way. Until the corpse appears.
Stalkers are easy to see at medium range by anyone.

Add crawlers to the perk requirement. Afterall, if killing them is part of his job, he should get his reward for it.
Hell. No. We JUST got them to remove the Stalker requirement.

Commando could use another weapon, perhaps an assault rifle
with some penetration and higher damage but lower rate of fire.
I'm telling you, Tripwire. Semi-auto FAL for Commando Tier 2.
 

Skunkee

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 17, 2009
302
2
0
I think the buff to ammo capacity with the Bullpup really brought the commandos up a notch. It allows them to do their jobs way more effectively.

To everyone complaining about the class:

Get your perk to rank 3 before even thinking about attempting hard mode. Your damage bonus isn't anywhere near where it needs to be to be effective in this difficulty. Take it to rank 5 before going to Suicidal. Seriously.

Can we get some input from rank 5 Commandos?
 

k_murdah

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 4, 2009
88
0
0
CA, where guns go to die
That's exactly what I suggested. Move the grenade damage and capacity bonuses from the support to the Commando. Bullpup ammo is fine IMO. You have what, 10 clips of 40 rounds? 400 rounds is plenty to be able to dish out punishment. One thing you have to remember is that this is a team game, and one person should not have enough ammo to take out an entire 6 person HARD/LONG wave. Survival horror is about conservation, teamwork, and timing; not a huge body count and e-peen.

I think the Commando could use a run speed bonus though. Not as much as Medic or Berserker, but a 10% run speed boost with the Bullpup would be fantastic. Especially during the Patriarch wave when the Commandos job is to be the teams spotter when ol' Pat goes in stealth mode.

Dunno about the grenades things, don't know about the running thing, but I do know everyone has a specialty weapon but Commando. I'm sorry with the changes, I'm ****ed on a fleshpound with the bullpup even with getting 100 extra bullets. A skrake will always hit me minimum once, once it begins charging.

It's not like there's a shortage of bigger, harder hitting assault rifles out there like the Sig 550 series, ak47 yes I went there, etc. I play hard/suicidal normally on rank 5. It's disappointing as commando to be forced to be stuck with one gun that bottoms out when the enemies that take a lot of damage start coming out, especially when they are stuck on you and your bullpup takes more than an entire clip to down the mob at half health.

Great for the crappy enemies, you die on the ones with more health if your teammates are dead or separated, or not paying attention since a Commando doesn't have enough burst damage to deal with them in any realistic fashion. And keep in mind I'm talking about just one fleshpound or skrake, not if multiple are focused on you.

The Commando simply needs a specialty assault rifle that maybe doesn't have as much ammo or whatever, but has a higher burst damage to deal with the enemies that have higher health. I was fine with the bullpup until their behavior became more difficult to handle (which isn't a bad thing overall, just sucks if your one weapon your class is forced to use is the bullpup).

Just my piece here, I've had a rank 5 Commando for a few weeks now. I honestly could've been happy with the ammo capacity prior to the last change if I had a stronger rifle for the later rounds.
 

k_murdah

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 4, 2009
88
0
0
CA, where guns go to die
Get your perk to rank 3 before even thinking about attempting hard mode. Your damage bonus isn't anywhere near where it needs to be to be effective in this difficulty. Take it to rank 5 before going to Suicidal. Seriously.

I couldn't agree more.

Can we get some input from rank 5 Commandos?

Been rank 5 for a few weeks. I'd much rather get the old balanced Bullpup for a higher (burst) damage assault rifle like I dunno, an AK-47 or something, there are plenty of harder hitting assault rifles. The bullpup starts failing on hard and definately on suicidal in the second half of waves where monsters that take like an entire magazine of 5.56mm to do half a bar of their health. Wasn't a problem on hard until the behavior changes which don't get me wrong, don't change those back, those were good changes. Just now if the rest of your team is dead, separated from you, not paying attention, you're ****ed with a fleshpound focused on you. There might be a way to not get hit as a Commando but I haven't figured it out yet. Once a skrake starts charging me, it's gonna happen minimum once. This is a very, very bad thing on suicidal.

Guns I'd suggest for the Commando specialty would be Sig 550 series, believe one or more of those guns are actually called commando but I'm only starting to get into guns, not 100% on that. AK47, even though it's in a lot of games m4 or an m16. Galil uh..I mean you could even give us like an actual machine gun if you could figure out how to balance it out, maybe give it extremely terrible recoil or something. Just the bullpup is something that should remain a lower tier weapon instead of being buffed more, and Commandos instead should get a harder hitting rifle, Maybe slower rate of fire, more recoil, less ammo, more weight, whatever. But since the commando has no movement boosts, it needs a burst damage weapon for the later levels.

Played a lot of counter-strike pre-source, lfd, now killing floor. I know how to work my assault rifles in fps. Don't overbalance the bullpup, just add a specialty weapon for Commandos.
 

k_murdah

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 4, 2009
88
0
0
CA, where guns go to die
Rank 5 Commando

Rank 5 Commando

Ok awesome, so here we go.

The grenade thing's not a bad idea but I'm sorry, it's not the fix the class needs (though feel free to transfer it if you want devs). The class does simply need a specialty assault rifle.

The main problem I'm having after the last patches changes which maybe I'm just dumb and haven't figured out how to deal with them yet, but the tougher enemies in the later waves that take multiple magazines from the bullpup to kill. The first thing I want to say is the behavior changes were a good thing, don't change them back because I said that. Just I noticed unless you can run pretty fast as some classes do (Commandos don't and frankly I'd give that buff up for a harder hitting rifle) you're going to need burst damage to deal with them or you'll die. You'll die from one fp focused on you if your team is dead, separated from you, not paying attention etc. I dunno if there's a way to yet but anytime a skrake starts charging me, he's gonna hit me minimum once and that's a really bad thing on suicidal.

The main reason I said a rifle with higher stopping power is if you're not fast on your feet, which I'd rather the commando not go down that road personally, then you need some burst. There are plenty of assault rifles out there with higher stopping power like I dunno, the AK47 just as an example. Or you could even play with the idea of giving us an actual machine gun, I have no idea how to balance that though personally.

The Bullpup is a lower tier weapon, even in general if you're looking at this as like a medic for example (have a rank 5 of that too, but who doesn't?) who has no weapon restrictions. Presonally I was fine with the 40 round mags before the behavior changes but now it's just, I'm sorry the ten extra rounds I get on a charging skrake or fp before having to reload just doesn't help. The bullpup, like a lower tier weapon should be, was and still is great for weak monsters. It really fails in my experience against the later wave exclusive ones though. Rather than constantly trying to buff it I think like the other classes, the right idea would just to be to give the commandos a specialty assault rifle. One that maybe has less ammo capacity, a lower rate of fire, higher recoil, more weight, anything. Just higher burst damage for the tougher monsters because unless you overbalanced the bullpup to be the best gun in the game or something, which is a terrible idea, it's never gonna be good enough on the later hard and suicidal waves.

Rifles I'd suggest are
AK47 as my first choice. Known for it's stopping power and legendary reliability.

Others just to through out there, I don't know all the balistics and such on them though are
Sig 500 series believe one or more of them are actually even called "commando" but I could be wrong.
Famas
Galil
M4 or M16 suggest against that though since I get the feeling the weaponry is flavored for European feeling.


hm, think most of the ones I suggested are actually still 5.56mm..well I dunno, but I'm pretty certain there are plenty of other assault rifles with higher stopping power out there. I'm still learning about guns myself.
 

BanzaiKen

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 18, 2009
15
0
0
Lol who said anything about crawlers and clots? I am fully capable of killing gorefasts and bloats as well as scrakes completely solo. FP's with the new update are the only specimens I need help with.
Alot of people forget about the Gorefasts, frankly they kill more people than the Big Boys. The extra mags help us do our jobs, namely killing everything in sight so you guys actually pull your weight and keep the two giants off of us.

I'm still bummed about the nades, because the Scrakes are now insta death if a Zerker or Medic isnt nearby. The extra mag capacity REALLY helps though, THANK YOU TRIPWIRE FOR MAKING ME USEFUL AGAIN!

Sucks about the FP's rage kiting now. Now I have to use the headbutt insta-decap to keep the team alive in pubs, but the extra bullets definately help spray and praying when Im trying to decap them.

Seriously DO NOT WANT! a new gun for Commando. Bullpup is great, it keeps me light and effective. Anything more damaging and Commandos will be able to hold entire hallways until the Scrakes arrive and level us.
 

Bronzen

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 23, 2009
127
5
0
I am with the above poster on the "I don't want a new weapon for the commandos" statement. We have a great gun and if you learn how to use it you can easily get enough cash by wave 5/6 to have a fully loaded bullpup, dual handcannons, dual 9mms, and armor. Of course it only takes me until wave 3/4 because for the first wave I use my firebug/Support perk which are both maxed then I switch to commando at the end of the round and sell the weapons for cash.
 

Soanos

Member
Jul 2, 2009
569
8
18
Finland
I'm still bummed about the nades, because the Scrakes are now insta death if a Zerker or Medic isnt nearby. The extra mag capacity REALLY helps though, THANK YOU TRIPWIRE FOR MAKING ME USEFUL AGAIN!

I agree. More grenades or at leash improved damage would have been great.
And yes, the added bullet capacity has helped a lot :)

Sucks about the FP's rage kiting now. Now I have to use the headbutt insta-decap to keep the team alive in pubs, but the extra bullets definately help spray and praying when Im trying to decap them.

This is what I have a problem with. Having to resort to an exploit (?) to have even a small chance of survival? Would much rather be able to take them out in the way they were intended. Random enrages just makes it pointless trying to avoid enraging it until the team is ready to take it on so right now the only way to deal with them is a salvo of 'nades and shooting like a madman as soon as it appears. Or using the lame instakill method.

Seriously DO NOT WANT! a new gun for Commando. Bullpup is great, it keeps me light and effective. Anything more damaging and Commandos will be able to hold entire hallways until the Scrakes arrive and level us.

You mean like the support class can with their shotgun spam? :)
No, wait... They can waste scrakes, too, without breaking a sweat.
And zerker just walks up to the Scrake, presses alt fire on chainsaw and waits until it falls over. :p
 

Skunkee

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 17, 2009
302
2
0
Personally, I don't see the fleshpound decapitation thing as an exploit anymore. It used to be when the game was super easy and everything could be kited, but now it requires precise timing since the FP's rage nonstop. It gives all classes at least some method of dealing with them, and quite frankly I don't see it as a problem since many many teams get wiped by them now.

Keep the decap!
 

Soanos

Member
Jul 2, 2009
569
8
18
Finland
Personally, I don't see the fleshpound decapitation thing as an exploit anymore. It used to be when the game was super easy and everything could be kited, but now it requires precise timing since the FP's rage nonstop. It gives all classes at least some method of dealing with them, and quite frankly I don't see it as a problem since many many teams get wiped by them now.

Keep the decap!

I was talking about making it a bit easier to decap the FP from range without having to resort to the "one shot instakill" exploit. Or make the weak spot a bit more obvious where to hit so that everyone will have a better chance at succeeding at the decap. :p

EDIT:
Addition:
I trested out something yesterday.

I started a normal solo game with a Commando on KF-Farm. I used semi-auto and headshotted most of the specimens and I did okay until the heavier specimens started spawning. IT was a bit more of a challenge there, but not too hard. Eventually got killed by, surprise, a Fleshpound that aggroed from maximum visual distance away and steamdrolled me. I kept on emptying my guns into it until I died.

Nest thing I did I started a normal solo game as Marksman on KF-Farm. I got myself a Handcannon and a lever action rifle for couple of first waves and wave 4 onwards I had the Crossbow. had no problems whatsoever, even with Fleshpounds because they died before they even got near me. And Patriarch was a pushover.

I was not sure what to think... Playing a Marksman didn't even really feel like playing one. It felt like someone had installed a railgun mutator. I didn't even have to aim for the head in most cases. Playing as a Commando felt like roleplaying an elite sniper armed with an airsoft gun with metal pellets who had to aim for the eyesockets to be able to cause damage. I am a bit confused about the class descriptions now... :p
 
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mamoo

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 19, 2009
2,465
542
0
30
East Sussex, England
Commando needs 2nd tier wep!

Commando needs 2nd tier wep!

I totally agree with giving the commando a second tier weapon like the AK-47. What I think it needs is a slower firing, more powerful gun. It can't have te same fire rate as the bullpup as otherwise people would not use the bullpup, it should be used for killing skrakes, FPs and the patriarch, not for cutting down hordes of clots, thats a job for the bullpup.
 

meatlong

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 24, 2009
3
0
0
i dunno, but it seems it would help with variety if the bp was replaced by an mp5, and a new assault rifle, perhaps as the mentioned L85 be introduced so bp fans won't feel alienated by non-uk rifle?