The trader seems to be a nice enough person who would never do something as awful to you as sell you an AR with a burst setting in a situation like this, and in fact remove it so it's semi/fullauto if it originaly had burst.
Combo weapons!
- Thread starter Aze
- Start date
I want to answer this first:
Well, i made this big suggestion thread (Lots of Ideas split 3: Perks and weapons) where i had loads of weapon changes and these "combo" weapons suggested as well, but the ideas never got any attention, the whole thing it delved out to was an "Nerf Sharpie/M14"-thread -.-
Thus, i made this thread, where the new weapon ideas i had would be focused on, buuuut it loses a little bit of its "bigger picture" idea i had :S
Once again, up to the big picture. If the SCAR weighs more (like 7), you can basicly only have one more weapon (maybe 2 small ones but nevermind that), and thus you would choose between the Bullpup, AK47 and the AR+GL. Bullpup would be a good weak-ZED headshot-weapon, AK47 would be more powerful but harder to aim, and then the AR+GL would be a versatility weapon which has a new style as well (Burst doesnt exist so far in the game, underslung nade launcher doesn't either). The AK47 and Bullpup might be better backups on opener maps, due to needing more single target fights, whereas the AR+GL would be a bit better on maps where enemies tend to come in more clustered packs, thus making the triple burst and the grenade more handy.
The AR+GL should be either better or worse than the AK47 depending on how you use it. AK47 is easier to use, but the AR+GL is more rewarding against big crowds (example of how it could be "handled and balanced")
It's not even tried out yet, why diss it before even tested?
I understand dissing something completely ridiculous or plain out stupid, but don't you think this is a more "balanced" and contributing thread with new weapon playstyles etc, compared to alot of those ... *shivers* "Implement these weapons from CoD / CS" "Pat the hairdresser perk etc" threads? Cuz, all the other Commando weapons are semi/auto. Sure, you play with them slightly differently, but it gets boring after a while. It needs a little more variety. Variety is good, no?
No.
It's good if there's a purpose to it - e.g., the different characters you can play makes it easier to identify who's who in a given game, or the different weapons and different perks and different zeds each contribute to a particular sort of problem or solution or counter-solution.
What, in terms of gameplay, would burst fire add to the game?
IRL it was developed to keep panicked soldiers from wasting ammo because they didn't have the resources or the bother to train them to fire in short bursts. Now this could, in theory, be useful for some people who do in fact panic like that ingame, but I suspect someone who does that would just end up mashing the fire button and wearing out their mouse without any gain in accuracy, while those who deliberately fire more shots in a burst than what the gun's set to (e.g., commando soloing against fleshpound at too close a range to do fancy headshot stuff) would just avoid that weapon.
(oh god are we going into an M16 debate)
Worst case scenario ingame, you know you need 4 bullets to kill a dude, you're in a hurry, you think you've switched from semi to auto but instead you've stopped at the intervening three-round burst. You're already aiming at the other guy before you realize the first guy didn't go down... which means your teammate he's attacking does.
Second-worst case scenario ingame: You have no kinesthetic or tactile sense of where the fire selector switch is and rely entirely on memory and that thin red text. You thought you were on full-auto and switching to semi, instead you've switched from burst to full-auto and your next attempt at two headshots gets you one headshot and an empty gun.
In the meantime, I can think of no role that a commando with a bullpup can't do as well or better than a commando with a bullpup with the exact same qualities except that it had semi/burst/auto or semi/burst instead of semi/auto.
I suppose arguably this does create a new challenge, but I just can't see this sort of challenge as being fun in any reasonable way when most of us are here to shoot monsters and work to defend ourselves - wrangling with the niggling details of the tools used to achieve that end is like counting trying to get a game to run as part of the game's interesting challenges.
It's good if there's a purpose to it - e.g., the different characters you can play makes it easier to identify who's who in a given game, or the different weapons and different perks and different zeds each contribute to a particular sort of problem or solution or counter-solution.
What, in terms of gameplay, would burst fire add to the game?
IRL it was developed to keep panicked soldiers from wasting ammo because they didn't have the resources or the bother to train them to fire in short bursts. Now this could, in theory, be useful for some people who do in fact panic like that ingame, but I suspect someone who does that would just end up mashing the fire button and wearing out their mouse without any gain in accuracy, while those who deliberately fire more shots in a burst than what the gun's set to (e.g., commando soloing against fleshpound at too close a range to do fancy headshot stuff) would just avoid that weapon.
(oh god are we going into an M16 debate)
Worst case scenario ingame, you know you need 4 bullets to kill a dude, you're in a hurry, you think you've switched from semi to auto but instead you've stopped at the intervening three-round burst. You're already aiming at the other guy before you realize the first guy didn't go down... which means your teammate he's attacking does.
Second-worst case scenario ingame: You have no kinesthetic or tactile sense of where the fire selector switch is and rely entirely on memory and that thin red text. You thought you were on full-auto and switching to semi, instead you've switched from burst to full-auto and your next attempt at two headshots gets you one headshot and an empty gun.
In the meantime, I can think of no role that a commando with a bullpup can't do as well or better than a commando with a bullpup with the exact same qualities except that it had semi/burst/auto or semi/burst instead of semi/auto.
I suppose arguably this does create a new challenge, but I just can't see this sort of challenge as being fun in any reasonable way when most of us are here to shoot monsters and work to defend ourselves - wrangling with the niggling details of the tools used to achieve that end is like counting trying to get a game to run as part of the game's interesting challenges.
actually it was designed so soldiers would throw more rounds down range to suppress the enemy
Just to clarify Vaecrius:
There is no select fire, if you misunderstood me. There is ONLY burst fire. Secondary fire is for the grenade launcher.
So i don't really understand your discussion there at the moment. Am I the one misunderstanding something?
There is no select fire, if you misunderstood me. There is ONLY burst fire. Secondary fire is for the grenade launcher.
So i don't really understand your discussion there at the moment. Am I the one misunderstanding something?
TWI are already nerfing the sharpie, so it's likely this will only fall on deaf ears.
That's a LOT more work for TWI though. You should be making weapons to fit the game, not making the game fit your weapons.
While your suggestions are better than theirs, does not mean they will work though. The reason that TWI doesn't just "Make stuff to test it" is because if it doesn't work, that is a LOT of wasted time and work. The less work there is in making it, the higher a chance it'll stand at being made. You might think a quick shift from the SCAR's 5 to 7 weight would be simple, but then they have to test that seperately and make sure it balances etc. In the end, it'd just be a lot of work with not enough reward.It's not even tried out yet, why diss it before even tested?
Not so much in a game like this, where everything needs to be balanced carefully. I mean, look at the beserker. It already has more variety, which just leads to certain weapons rarely being used.Cuz, all the other Commando weapons are semi/auto. Sure, you play with them slightly differently, but it gets boring after a while. It needs a little more variety. Variety is good, no?
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Yeah, i really hope they nerf the Sharpie so it's more balanced so we can stop hearing these complaints over and over.
*Shrugs* It's just ideas. No need to implement them ofc, but why not share my ideas, if they seem viable? No harm done right?
First, with that kind of attitude, is there any work worth doing? (Ok, harsh, but you get my point, if balancing and adding variety is not worth it, then what is?)
Anyway, while it's true that if you make random stuff "just to test it" is not maybe the best approach, but if you NEVER grant new ideas, then what should they work with? They need inspiration from somewhere else than just their own. One can only make as much as one can do, right? Not that i think they can't come up with ideas themselves though, dont get me wrong there.
I mean, why even have an Ideas and Suggestions section at all then
I always try to contribute, i mean, if my ideas are likeable by others (especially if not suggested before) then it's worth a shot, imo. I mean, it's not like you think my ideas are completely atrocious, right?
And, if TWI added this, in their own way, would you be mad?
Or maybe im just thinking too highly of my ideas? Who knows?
Gah, im just rambling... sorry :S
Another thing i have tried to help with
(Not in this thread though)I'm not just adding without consideration of balance, i give suggestions to add AND try to bring them in with balance AND balance in regards of the other weapons. You know, in a "bigger picture" way of sense.
Oh well
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Never suggested any harm. No harm suggesting things that you think will work, even if they might not. Just that the more you take into account(and I don't mean change), the better an idea it becomes.
Editing current weapons to get the perfect balance in KF. It doesn't really need any new weapons.First, with that kind of attitude, is there any work worth doing? (Ok, harsh, but you get my point, if balancing and adding variety is not worth it, then what is?)
They pick an idea that sounds like it's the best. One that requires less work for maximum reward.
To see if we share the same ideas as them and to predict which ideas of their we will enjoy the most. You never know either, someone might eventually come up with a concept they'll use one day.I mean, why even have an Ideas and Suggestions section at all then
Not completely atrocious, just a bit buggy. And I hated the fact that a Katana got added. To this day, I continue to use Chainsaw as a beserker.
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More than full-auto?
Meanwhile I must differ from Sammers: the utter inappropriateness of the katana is a wonderfully Pythonic addition to the game's humour.
Hey,
I really like the idea of these multi-purpose-weapons (or whatever you want to call them^^).
Personally I think that the Burst mode is missing in the game and should be implemented. (As I myself don't get the point mentioned earlier that you could be tricked to let's call it "false switching", because this is simply caused by getting too used to some features (or to the miss of others).
The weapon would be declared as a Burst-fire-weapon and everyone can read this.
Back to the combined weapons: Yeah it might be true that they will allow it for players to instead carry anoter weapon they could not use before but thats the way things go! If you had to invent a real weapon it would have to weight less than previous versions and/or would have to allow it for multiple purposes! or you could simply make it like the weight of both weapons used (reffering to GL+AR) minus 2 or something like that!
Greetz
Thugdil
I really like the idea of these multi-purpose-weapons (or whatever you want to call them^^).
Personally I think that the Burst mode is missing in the game and should be implemented. (As I myself don't get the point mentioned earlier that you could be tricked to let's call it "false switching", because this is simply caused by getting too used to some features (or to the miss of others).
The weapon would be declared as a Burst-fire-weapon and everyone can read this.
Back to the combined weapons: Yeah it might be true that they will allow it for players to instead carry anoter weapon they could not use before but thats the way things go! If you had to invent a real weapon it would have to weight less than previous versions and/or would have to allow it for multiple purposes! or you could simply make it like the weight of both weapons used (reffering to GL+AR) minus 2 or something like that!
Greetz
Thugdil
I've experimented with a semi/burst/auto weapon in a ZDoom mod I was working on before I got KF.
My recollection is that unless I either magically increase the damage of a burst, magically ignore the tripled recoil of the burst, or increase the ROF of the burst to a super-quick salvo that basically makes it semiauto at 3x damage and 1/3 the ammo, there is almost nothing burst can do that neither semi nor auto can do better. (Of course, a slower but steadier rapid fire in Doom can keep an enemy immobile longer, so I may be unconsciously factoring this in as well.)
It was a few hours before I went back to a simple semi/auto binary and in the process greatly cleaned up the code.
My recollection is that unless I either magically increase the damage of a burst, magically ignore the tripled recoil of the burst, or increase the ROF of the burst to a super-quick salvo that basically makes it semiauto at 3x damage and 1/3 the ammo, there is almost nothing burst can do that neither semi nor auto can do better. (Of course, a slower but steadier rapid fire in Doom can keep an enemy immobile longer, so I may be unconsciously factoring this in as well.)
It was a few hours before I went back to a simple semi/auto binary and in the process greatly cleaned up the code.
Dude, im not talking about an assault rifl with semi/burst/auto options.
The weapon is BURST ONLY! So it would ofc be tweaked around that...
I guess i misunderstood
However, i understand what he means now, burst may not be as useful in general compared to semi/auto modes, but that's good! That's one of the drawbacks of the weapon (or advantages in some rarer occasions) to balance it up, since it has the 'nade launcher too.
how about attaching katanas to pistols
oh and while were at it, use this knife
YouTube - U.K. - Knife That Explodes Inside Its Victim
oh and while were at it, use this knife
YouTube - U.K. - Knife That Explodes Inside Its Victim
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