Collapsable Menu

[Aze]

@nutterbutter, but even more so 9_6

Wtf are your problems?

Nutter, i understand your pov the most here. You are trying to specify that tabs are still sorta scrolling. You also say that tabs can be a bit misleading for noobs as lots of info is hidden. But at the same time you don't really dislike the idea. As far as i can see, you seem to like it, but maybe want to promote that there actually are tabs there, to help the noobs. Or maybe do something else, whatever is the best.

9_6 stop taking stuff so personally. Accept the critique and go on with it. Don't take actual constructive critique as a personal offense, he is not trying to bash on you, just trying to help you improve this idea. Cuz your pic is awesome

I think all of us here can agreed that we want something new and quick for the menus. But why does disagreements always go towards fighting? I mean, grow up people! Listen to eachother and further develop this awesome idea instead.

I would also emphasize what Timur said, which would be a very nice "diplomatic" way of implementing this idea:
"Still, to be considerate to the newbies and eliminate the constant "OMG WHERE IS THE WEAPONS?!" that will occur, I suggest making normal menu the default, and allowing different menu selections be options for the more advanced players."

Always be considerate to as many people as you can

 

[smilin]

And again my reminder: To maximize the chances of this suggestion stick to layout and graphic changes as much as possible. Keep underlying code changes to a minimum. This might mean sacrificing some wishes and shooting for improvements of existing rather than the holy grail of a perfect interface.

I regularly submit design change requests for (a big assed software company) and this benefit vs coding+testing cost is a big part of getting things approved now and not punted to a later milestone.

 

[9_6]

@nutterbutter, but even more so 9_6

Wtf are your problems?

Are you serious?
What the hell did I do?
"Wtf are your problems" is what went through my head constantly when mr butter decided that he needs to fill yet another page with probably the most pointless discussion ever before he decided to get to the point... sorta.
Why am I now involved in this?

Even more so, why am I supposedly more involved than mr butter here?
I still have no idea where that huge discussion I'm supposedly in right now even came from.
To top it all off, I'm the one who is being called argumentative by the person who just started the whole argument out of nowhere.

9_6 stop taking stuff so personally. Accept the critique and go on with it. Don't take actual constructive critique as a personal offense, he is not trying to bash on you, just trying to help you improve this idea.

And now I'm being written off as "the guy who can't take criticism".
Awesome. Screw this.

Edit: Oh yeah btw there was so much editing going on that you probably can't reconstruct how it really went anymore.

 

[nutterbutter]

Wall of text (really) and a ton of replies

Mah boi, you started it all with, let me quote it, "That is still scrolling.".

I was just pointing out that tabs are de facto scrolling.

It took 2 posts to actually find out wtf you were trying to say apart from trying to sound smart by explaining the meaning of words;

I didn't realize that using the word 'pagination' was "trying to sound smart."

...you were trying to say that the design was bad because there's still scrolling in it which I already addressed

Christ dude, this goes back to the point where there is a significant difference between "It is a bad design due to this specific reason" and "Your design sucks."

As for your comment "you were trying to say that the design was bad because there's still scrolling in it" was completely false. What I said was "Anyway, it is a bad design because weapons can be completely hidden."

Got it?

-and you kindly ignored that so far- when I said it's more precise than a scrolling bar.

And? Do you expect me to respond to every single thing you type? I hate to break it to you, but a conversation is not a competition. You may think it is, but I assure you, I don't. So if you want to walk away thinking you "won" every conversation with me, feel free.

You then proceeded to tell me that you didn't say the design was bad at all and that tabs aren't evil either.
180

 

[Zeron]

@nutterbutter, but even more so 9_6

Wtf are your problems?

Nutter, i understand your pov the most here. You are trying to specify that tabs are still sorta scrolling. You also say that tabs can be a bit misleading for noobs as lots of info is hidden. But at the same time you don't really dislike the idea. As far as i can see, you seem to like it, but maybe want to promote that there actually are tabs there, to help the noobs. Or maybe do something else, whatever is the best.

9_6 stop taking stuff so personally. Accept the critique and go on with it. Don't take actual constructive critique as a personal offense, he is not trying to bash on you, just trying to help you improve this idea. Cuz your pic is awesome

I think all of us here can agreed that we want something new and quick for the menus. But why does disagreements always go towards fighting? I mean, grow up people! Listen to eachother and further develop this awesome idea instead.

I would also emphasize what Timur said, which would be a very nice "diplomatic" way of implementing this idea:
"Still, to be considerate to the newbies and eliminate the constant "OMG WHERE IS THE WEAPONS?!" that will occur, I suggest making normal menu the default, and allowing different menu selections be options for the more advanced players."

Always be considerate to as many people as you can

You can't change the way 9_6 and Nutter are, so you might as well not try. I know i don't. Trying to end an argument with another argument starter is never a good idea.

 

[Aze]

Are you serious?
What the hell did I do?
"Wtf are your problems" is what went through my head constantly when mr butter decided that he needs to fill yet another page with probably the most pointless discussion ever before he decided to get to the point... sorta.
Why am I now involved in this?

Even more so, why am I supposedly more involved than mr butter here?
I still have no idea where that huge discussion I'm supposedly in right now even came from.
To top it all off, I'm the one who is being called argumentative by the person who just started the whole argument out of nowhere.

While i agreed that it was a little short of nutter to not mention the issue right away, you are still jumping to conclusions too quickly. Sure, he had that short "tabbing is still scrolling", cuz he wanted to point out that you are still missing info with tabs and how it is programmed etc. I agreed, he should instead have said (in a more positive way) something in the lines of:
"Well, tabbing is still (in programming) technically a scrolling feature. You still miss out on info, since you can't see all at once. However, how about adding to your tabs an "ALL" tab, where you see everything? Although, sure, that might include scrolling there still, but at least you make the noobs informed of all the weapons while still making the more knowing people able to quickly find their weapons in the tabs. Either way, a tab split is probably a nice way to go! "
There, that's what he should've said.

And now I'm being written off as "the guy who can't take criticism".
Awesome. Screw this.

Dude, now you are taking it too seriously again. But i understand your POV too, it must feel kinda frustrating when you didn't even want this kind of arguement in the first place, you just wanted to contribute. If he would've been more straight to the point it wouldn't necessarily had been a little fight goin on here. Either way, take it a little bit more easy, calm down and ask him nicely what he means instead. He even said his social skills aren't the best, so take that in consideration from now on, ok? From what I can read from nutters replies, he is not bashing you, but trying to help you (at least that's what it turned out to in the end, afaik)

Edit: Oh yeah btw there was so much editing going on that you probably can't reconstruct how it really went anymore.

Ok ok. The only point im trying to bring to this conversation is that EVERYONE should calm down, not flame eachother, but instead just listen to the advices mentioned and so on and so forth. No need to get emotional. That includes me

 

[HalfDemon]

May I point out something; This flame war between 9_6 and nutterbutter is over a menu. A menu.

Just leave it.

 

[nutterbutter]

May I point out something; This flame war between 9_6 and nutterbutter is over a menu. A menu.

I'm not in a flame war.

 

[C_Gibby]

I'm not in a flame war.

Yes you are.

It's not flaming by the common definition as in LOLOLO UR SUCH A GHEY N00B!!!11!1 like you get in the Steam forums, but this between you and 9_6 still counts as flaming, in a sense. Argue Argue Argue, etc.

 

[nutterbutter]

Sure, he had that short "tabbing is still scrolling", cuz he wanted to point out that you are still missing info with tabs and how it is programmed etc.

I had no desire to get into the discussion at the time. I just mentioned that tabs were scrolling. That is why I left it there.

From what I can read from nutters replies, he is not bashing you, but trying to help you (at least that's what it turned out to in the end, afaik)

He just doesn't see that. When I mentioned that his design had a specific problem he saw "You suck. Tabs suck." When I mentioned tabs later he saw "Tabs are good. Nutter is inconsistant." and he went off on a tangent about that because the thought he "caught" me. Considering that is what he was focusing on, it shows where his comments and thoughts were heading.

 

[CandleJack]

Well nutterbutter, i remember at one stage in either this or another thread, you claimed to code for a living.

With that in mind, can you give an estimate on how easy or difficult each menu idea would be to code? My original idea in the OP was similar in design to the regular menu as seen in windows.
A little + and - next to the folders, indicating they're closed and open. I actually thought my idea was pretty simple and easy to implement.

IMO 9_6's tab menu seems the most polished, and possibly a simpler menu to make. The pictograph menu (the one with the pictures in it) may indeed be a bit more difficult to make due to the more radical change in the design.


So, nutterbutter, or anyone else for that matter, are you able to say how difficult to implement each menu is?

 

[timur]

I would also emphasize what Timur said, which would be a very nice "diplomatic" way of implementing this idea:
"Still, to be considerate to the newbies and eliminate the constant "OMG WHERE IS THE WEAPONS?!" that will occur, I suggest making normal menu the default, and allowing different menu selections be options for the more advanced players."

Always be considerate to as many people as you can

Thanks

However, this kind of thing tends to happen whenever Nutters and 9_6 (I think its usually 9_6, might be wrong) butt heads. Its not really a traditional flamewar, its far more civilized, so a hybrid flame-debate. Complaining only gets you involved, so don't try. My new strategy is just to continue on with the main topic like nothing is going on.

So, anyways, are we agreed that the usual menu pops up first, or not? I got too confused as it went on, so Ill just start from there. It seems appropraite as an advanced sorting menu. Any disagreements?

 

[CandleJack]

Thanks

However, this kind of thing tends to happen whenever Nutters and 9_6 (I think its usually 9_6, might be wrong) butt heads. Its not really a traditional flamewar, its far more civilized, so a hybrid flame-debate. Complaining only gets you involved, so don't try. My new strategy is just to continue on with the main topic like nothing is going on.

So, anyways, are we agreed that the usual menu pops up first, or not? I got too confused as it went on, so Ill just start from there. It seems appropraite as an advanced sorting menu. Any disagreements?

Yeah, the standard menu is the one that comes up, and the others are optional. That's what i've gathered so far; and it seems to be a good idea.

 

[EricFong]

Well, I like both Candle's weapon picture idea and 9_6's tab idea.

 

[C_Gibby]

imo.
Scrolling sucks.

This wins the thread! It's a lot nicer to look at, and possibly simpler to make. :IS2::IS2::IS2:

 

[nath2009uk]

This wins the thread! It's a lot nicer to look at, and possibly simpler to make. :IS2::IS2::IS2:

OH lord this.
The Perk Icons next to weapons isn't needed though.

 

[Benjamin]

I prefer the weapon grid idea. I had a similar idea a while back actually, although it also involved changing the rest of the shop interface since I really dislike it. Anyway, I'd have weapons laid out in a grid like someone else posted (though with prices below), and items you own would be yellow, items you can buy would be blue, and items you cannot afford to buy would be greyed out. Moving the cursor over an item would highlight it and bring up a tooltip displaying the associated perk, damage, etc.

 

[C_Gibby]

I prefer the weapon grid idea. I had a similar idea a while back actually, although it also involved changing the rest of the shop interface since I really dislike it. Anyway, I'd have weapons laid out in a grid like someone else posted (though with prices below), and items you own would be yellow, items you can buy would be blue, and items you cannot afford to buy would be greyed out. Moving the cursor over an item would highlight it and bring up a tooltip displaying the associated perk, damage, etc.

Grid may look nice, but I still think 9_6's version looks great.

Modders will love it. :IS2:

 

[Foxyfired]

Grid may look nice, but I still think 9_6's version looks great.

Modders will love it. :IS2:

.True

 

[CandleJack]

imo.
Scrolling sucks.

Yeah, the best idea so far. Though i noticed that "armour" on combat armour near the bottom left goes off the button

Still, better than anything i can come up with.