Clearing up some confusion - MAC 10 - The 1014 Post Mortem

  • Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

Yoshiro

In Soviet Russia, Yoshiro is a cake
Staff member
Oct 10, 2005
13,274
4,048
113
The MAC 10 recently introduced in the 1014 update for Killing Floor seems to have caused some confusion due to a never released weapon created by a community member named Ricardo.

The gun in game is not his. If it was, his name would be highlighted in the patch notes. The weapon in game was created by one of our on site artists who made it in his spare time. He has other weapons as well he's made that I am trying to work out of him but that is a different story :)

Now back to community made items. This is something I would really like to support going forward with the Tripwire team having the majority of their time occupied on RO 2. To that end, if anybody creates a weapon or character or zed that is up to the quality of the stock game, we would gladly introduce it as stock content.

We are also thinking of ways to promote the creation of said content, but do not have anything to say on this yet.
 

Yoshiro

In Soviet Russia, Yoshiro is a cake
Staff member
Oct 10, 2005
13,274
4,048
113
I guess I'll go ahead and address some balance issues here as well. With the recently released 1014 patch we made several changes to the games weapons in the name of balance. This included:

Sharpshooter:

  • Raised price of the Crossbow
  • Reduce the number of magazines carried for the M14
  • Increased the weight of the M14 and Crossbow so both cannot be carried at once
Commando

  • Reduced the damage for the SCAR
Demolition

  • Moved the LAW to the Demolition perk
  • Increased the damage radius of the LAW
  • LAW gets perk bonuses for the Demolition perk

Now to address these:
The job of the Sharpshooter class has always been to deal with the bigger zeds. For that reason the changes for this class focused on making him less useful against weaker zeds to make the class focus more on the harder ones. Now there have been many gut reactions to the news on this (too much, too little), but it has played out fairly well in our testing. We will see how it plays out in the public space.

The Commando -The unexpected nerf(herder)
The commando has the opposite job of the Sharpshooter. His job is to take care of the crawlies and other various things that can swamp a team. The SCAR was super effective, at taking on Scrakes and Fleshpounds. It really didn't scale with the rest of the commando weapon line up, now it has been brought more in line with that scale.

The Demolitions Perk - But the LAW still sucks?
Really? Have you even played with it? I soloed Hard with lvl 4 demo with a LAW :) It might not one shot a fleshpound/Scrake all the time but it will kill everything around it and with a few extra rounds your team can take care of the raging bloody mess that is left.

Now was this the end all of balance patches? No. Did we fix everything? No. I have the Medic/Zerker and Demo balance changes that we are still discussing. But I would also like to see how these changes that we've made play out in the public space. Gut reactions and "I'm Uninstalling" doesn't tell me anything. I'll be playing and observing.

Ahh something else I would like to add. I believe Ramm mentioned this in an interview at PAX, but I don't know if it ever saw the light of day. So I will bring it up here. Originally this patch was also going to introduce a new game type. There has been a strong call from the community for a new game type (either Mission or PVP). We looked at what the community had already done in this area (BlackCheatas vs mode and the various mission map makers), and decided the community was doing well enough in the mission map department.

On that note, if you haven't tried the various mission maps, go do so. They are really awesome, and I've had a chance to check out some unreleased stuff that takes it to a whole new level.

Back on topic. Many of you know that we announced we were working on something big. This new game type was that something. Various members of the community have over time found supporting material that was for this mode (such as a unused weapon/device and some left over code that didn't get properly removed). I am sad to say that this game type is also no more.

At one point we never understood how different game companies could just can a project that they had worked on for months if not years. Now we do. What we had implemented was not fun. And the amount of work it would take to correct this somewhat fatal flaw was unknown. So we made the very hard decision to cut the game type. It wasn't easy for us to come to this decision, but we feel we've made the right one.
 

Rattler

Grizzled Veteran
Dec 20, 2009
2,816
313
83
You can add the Mk23 pistol then, itsmade by a member of this forum :)
 

Compass

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 30, 2010
383
101
0
What about a custom heads up display that contains all the information in a tiny part of the window so that we become immersed?
 

Benjamin

Grizzled Veteran
May 17, 2009
3,650
635
113
France
Many thanks for giving your reasoning on the balance changes, it's appreciated. :)

Perhaps we'll get less complaining now that we know why things were changed, and with clarification on the roles of the perks.
 

Yomommassis

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 24, 2009
705
233
0
Palmdale, CA USA
Many of you know that we announced we were working on something big. This new game type was that something. Various members of the community have over time found supporting material that was for this mode (such as a unused weapon/device and some left over code that didn't get properly removed). I am sad to say that this game type is also no more.
A damn shame I was really hoping to see what it was TW was up to with the mysterious new weapon.

Is there any chance the source for the weapon/gametype could be released to the modding community for possible revival?
 

SMIFF

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 19, 2009
1,815
804
0
Commando

  • Reduced the damage for the SCAR


At one point we never understood how different game companies could just can a project that they had worked on for months if not years. Now we do. What we had implemented was not fun. And the amount of work it would take to correct this somewhat fatal flaw was unknown. So we made the very hard decision to cut the game type. It wasn't easy for us to come to this decision, but we feel we've made the right one.

Just out of interest. What was the game mode? in detail?

And thank you for confirming that the SCAR was actually overpowered and that it got the nerf it deserved.
 

Fedorov

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 8, 2005
5,726
2,774
0
I'm sad to hear that Yoshi =(

I hope that at least the time you saved in the end translates in better HOES
 

Jack-Carver

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 28, 2009
834
232
0
31
Now back to community made items. This is something I would really like to support going forward with the Tripwire team having the majority of their time occupied on RO 2. To that end, if anybody creates a weapon or character or zed that is up to the quality of the stock game, we would gladly introduce it as stock content.

We are also thinking of ways to promote the creation of said content, but do not have anything to say on this yet.

If this would actually turn out to work, Ivan and me would continue to make some weapons for Killing Floor. But first the MK23 needs its bug ironed out and it doesn't really look like the problem is getting solved. However if anyone has a solution for that dualies bug we would really appreciate the help. However we will not continue with other stuff before the MK23 is finished and this was the first and last pistol we made and are making for KF.
The main reason why we are making "mods" for KF is because the game just has an increadibly high replay value and because of TW. Making a weapon for an EA game would probably be "worthless". Noone will play with it, nor will it ever have a chance to get ingame and so on.

Actually we made such weapons and things only for Lan games but if this now would work for internet games too, I would be quite happy :)!!
 

Deafmute

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 22, 2009
2,071
1,023
0
knee deep in pussy.
Back on topic. Many of you know that we announced we were working on something big. This new game type was that something. Various members of the community have over time found supporting material that was for this mode (such as a unused weapon/device and some left over code that didn't get properly removed). I am sad to say that this game type is also no more.

Ah that sucks.

Thanks for the clarification though.
 

C_Gibby

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 18, 2010
7,275
2,716
0
He has other weapons as well he's made that I am trying to work out of him but that is a different story :)

if anybody creates a weapon or character or zed that is up to the quality of the stock game, we would gladly introduce it as stock content.

YouTube - M. Bison "Yes Yes!" Widescreen HD reupload


Commando

  • Reduced the damage for the SCAR

YouTube - Best Cry Ever

Well, reactions aside, I have to say thanks for this. :)

Some of us did get a little too optimistic about it and claim that it's half-arsed, but the rest of us understand perfectly. And I think it's GREAT that you openly ask modders to help out with some content and get credited for it.

I'm gonna do three things:


  1. Buy the new character pack
  2. Get back into modelling
  3. Play KF. :IS2:
 

KingJoker

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 15, 2009
762
3
0
Far Far Away
Im glad to see Yoshi is talking :O

I love the new balances, they aren't horrid but just one complaint I feel as though mac10 might have to much power :O but whatever I've yet to try it on suicidal.

Same with LAW. God damn man, I love riot for finally updating the LAW, people made fun of me when i use it pre-patch :(

THE LAW RULES NOW.
 

No Glory

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 6, 2009
573
45
0
BC, Canada
Best way to satisfy me about the gametype? Release an "Official" (Community made) mission map so that the people who don't hang around the forums know that there are more gamemodes (It also looks good on steam)
 

Nenjin

Grizzled Veteran
Apr 30, 2009
3,879
480
83
Sub-Level 12
Just chiming in with my 2 pence.

Having played a few mission maps, I really think the decision that "the community is doing well enough there" should be revisited. With some TWI support, some of those mission maps could go from "good" to "official content worthy." Whether TWI is interested in supporting PvP-type game play or not...supporting those mission maps would be, I think, fairly easy for you guys. Weapons and items and such are great and all, but the game itself could really use a fundamental change of pace IMO.

I'm sad to hear what you guys developed had to be canned, but I think you've got a great opportunity to take something you know is fun (mission-based maps), that already has work done in that area and put the TWI polish on it.
 

YoYoBatty

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 17, 2009
3,460
2,502
0
Canada
Why would you cut something from the game when the community didn't even have a chance to share their personal opinions and reviews about it? TWI you could have gone some where, again...
 

Zips

Grizzled Veteran
Mar 4, 2006
3,683
1,076
113
Rapture
totalgamingnetwork.com
Why would you cut something from the game when the community didn't even have a chance to share their personal opinions and reviews about it? TWI you could have gone some where, again...
You're being a touch melodramatic there, don't you think?

Content is cut from games for any number of reasons. Say, for instance, the additional content wasn't complete, why bother releasing it to anybody to get feedback that would not mean a thing?
 

Salad Snake

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 2, 2010
875
148
0
32
Honolulu, Hawaii
While I still think the Scar nerf was a bit overboard considering the low number of rounds in it's magazine (and the fact that Sharpshooter still rocks small and large zeds alike with his killer 9mm/duel HC/Xbow combo), I do appreciate all the other changes and especially the new weapon.

It's understandable if the patch content seems because you were working on something big that was ultimately canceled. Sucks for everyone, including you guys, but sometimes ideas are better on paper, and you never know which ones they are.
 

Undedd Jester

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 31, 2009
3,065
881
0
Sheffield, England
Incidently you do realize that a full SCAR clip still outdamages a full Ak Clip right?

Scar does 2400 damage across its entire clip in 2.4 seconds
Ak47 does 2368 damage across its entire clip in 3.9 seconds

I personally like this update, there are still things that need addressing, that I'm now more confident than ever will get looked at and fixed, but its definately a step in the right direction.

For me now the Commando, Medic, Demoman and the M14 Sharpshooters are balanced. Zerker weapons need to be rejigged a little, but the Zerker himself is balanced and Xbow Sharpshooters, Support Specialists and Firebug are almost there. Xbow just needs a little rethink for both SS's, Support doesn't really need Grenades on top of his shotguns, and for the Firebug he just needs a few tweaks to the Mac 10 since the weapon has largely overcome alot of his weaknesses.

I whole heartedly agree with the line of thought for the Devs, and hope to assist in the changes for the future :)