I was thinking about suggesting to replace the claymores in the pointman loadout with something more suitable for the assault role, like WP grenades for example. But maybe I'm just missing something about the claymores, so I want to discuss this first. How do you employ the claymores in the specific role of the pointman being an assaulter? I hear people use them to clear enemy positions but I find that rather unsuitable, to plant an explosive device in the frontline where I'm getting shot at.
claymores for pointmen?
- Thread starter Gladius
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The claymore would be amazing for the point man if he could set it and leave it like a booby trap and not have to manually set it off. I believe claymores also could be set with trip wires IRL
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Truffleshuffle;n2297111 said:
Post war thing and even today Claymores are still 99.99% manually operated.
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The problem is that US team is rarely in a defensive position. At the moment this can only happen in Supremacy. Then you still have the disadvantage that you need to manually set them off. The situations in which you can actually use them are pretty rare and you are usually better of pointing your main weapon in that direction. It would be nice if the Pointman would get a more offensive alternative.
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I've always found it odd that the class who's job to be up close and personal has a claymore and not multiple types of grenades. Give me 2 WP, 1 smoke, and 1 frag and I'll be happy.
Granted that there are other problems with Pointman, but getting rid of the claymore and getting offensive grenades would go a long way.
Granted that there are other problems with Pointman, but getting rid of the claymore and getting offensive grenades would go a long way.
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I've felt the same way since the beta.
Usually end up throwing them away.
Atleast give the pointman a choice between claymores, for upcoming defensive TE maps, and 2 normal grenades for attacking maps.
Usually end up throwing them away.
Atleast give the pointman a choice between claymores, for upcoming defensive TE maps, and 2 normal grenades for attacking maps.
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Lemonater47;n2297123 said:
They could also be used with tripwires though as both the Americans and many VC would take them and set them with tripwires. Claymores were used more as a perimeter-defense weapon not by Assulting class. defenders in bunkers could set claymores in a pattern to cover all approaches. Also the problem with them in this game you can set it off and kill a guy but he can somehow still kill you before he dies. I set one up and set it off as soon as a guy came running in a door and yet he somehow after his body hit the floor killed me. He was not even shooting when he died yet somehow killed me. I just don't like the fact the VC have tripwires, pungi traps, mines, and grenades. While the the U.S get A WP, grenades, and A claymore you have to personally set off even though it can be rigged with a tripwire.
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Truffleshuffle;n2297305 said:
The thing is though unless you have a proper tripwire kit the only way to rig it as a tripwire is to use the detonator itself as the trip device. So if they disarmed that they now have a fully operational claymore. They didn't have tripwires.
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We kept the claymores deliberately as remote detonation only as a major point of distinction between the teams - the Viets have a bunch of set-and-forget traps, while the US get remote explosives. We didn't want to simply "cookie cutter" both sides.
As far as the Pointman and claymores, it's something that we switched in and out of a lot during development. For a long time he did get a WP grenade, but we wanted the Scout and Pointman to be roughly analogous and so giving the Scout some traps but the Pointman grenades didn't feel right. As it currently stands, the intention behind the Pointman's claymore is that he gets into the objectives first and clears them with his close quarters weapons, then uses his traps/explosives to act as defence against a counterattack while your team is taking the point.
The only real impediment along those lines currently is that in order to plant a claymore facing a useful direction, you have to expose yourself, which makes them a lot less useful (people don't often want to set them up if there aren't enemies coming). With that in mind, we'll probably look to add the ability to rotate the claymore's placement direction in a future patch so that you can plonk them down in a doorway or on a windowsill without giving the enemy something to shoot at as you do so.
As far as the Pointman and claymores, it's something that we switched in and out of a lot during development. For a long time he did get a WP grenade, but we wanted the Scout and Pointman to be roughly analogous and so giving the Scout some traps but the Pointman grenades didn't feel right. As it currently stands, the intention behind the Pointman's claymore is that he gets into the objectives first and clears them with his close quarters weapons, then uses his traps/explosives to act as defence against a counterattack while your team is taking the point.
The only real impediment along those lines currently is that in order to plant a claymore facing a useful direction, you have to expose yourself, which makes them a lot less useful (people don't often want to set them up if there aren't enemies coming). With that in mind, we'll probably look to add the ability to rotate the claymore's placement direction in a future patch so that you can plonk them down in a doorway or on a windowsill without giving the enemy something to shoot at as you do so.
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PsYcH0_Ch!cKeN;n2297388 said:
The problem though is that Grunts and Guerillas are blatantly better at clearing objectives than Scouts and Pointmen. Aside from having automatics as well, they can chuck a grenade through a door or window, which lets them not have to expose themselves while still being able to kill the guys inside. Scouts and Pointmen have to actually look through the door/window and use their largely inferior guns to clear a room out.
This problem is tripled for Pointmen since they're attacking most of the time, and have to sit there and babysit the claymore with their clacker out if they even have enough time to set it up, thanks to how close North can spawn to the objective. There simply isn't any reason for Pointmen to not drop their claymores for grenades. Even if they didn't have to expose themselves to place it, why would they sit there with the clacker instead of just throwing grenades at the incoming enemies?
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The Vc would crawl through perimeter defense's of base defense'sLemonater47;n2297380 said:
and turn some of the claymores around so that when the person with the detonator fired it, it would, in fact, be facing in the direction of the GI's. They would also steal claymores and set tripwires on them. I am pretty sure they did not have access to the detonators.
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Lemonater47;n2297475 said:
You have to baby sit it to make sure somone is there to get a kill with it. You might on occasion get a random kill but highly doubtfull.
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Perhaps the change to laying them as foreshadowed by PsYcH0_Ch!cKeN , will make all the difference, i just know in their current form i'm extremely "reluctant" to dickaround with them if it in anyway exposes me to fire. i.e I have gotten kills with claymores, when i've forced myself to use them, but implementation could definitely be better.
I often only lay them singularly too, and when i've still got the 2nd claymore in inventory, I occasionally have trouble right clicking to toggle to the "clacker", i.e it just outright refuses to swap, so am forced detonate it with the "G" instead? have tried switching to other items and then back to claymore, sometimes this helps, sometimes it still wont toggle to the clacker.
I know tripwire detonation of the claymore is largely considered anachronistic for the RVN timeframe, and in game its an intended assymetric feature - however if tripwires aren't to be considered, then perhaps some different perspective is needed; IRL there was the option for another member of the section to assume control of the clacker if the original operator was incapacitated or otherwise indisposed, where as ingame the lay'n claymore is null & void once its owner dies. As such the ingame claymore has no "legacy" when compared to the NVA traps & mines with those things still racking up sneaky kills, half a match later.
Any students of the Australian experience in South Vietnam here?
Strategists had decided to build a vast protective minefield & fence between the Australian taskforce base & Nui Dat & the coastline, some 10 or 12km away, to free up some patrolling forces for more aggressive search & destroy type missions.
However..... the VC managed to lift large quantities of mines (not claymores specifically, but still mines) from this field and reuse them on ATF patrol routes, elsewhere in the province. I mean, Australians & prob American's were still tripping over those Fk'n things for another 5 or 6 more years yet, losing life & limb
. sortof feel it's only fair that the claymores have a bit more longevity/legacy in game, than just the lifespan of the installer?
If tripwires are inconceivable, could it be made that other US squad members can assume control over the "clacker"?
Anyway food for though?
I often only lay them singularly too, and when i've still got the 2nd claymore in inventory, I occasionally have trouble right clicking to toggle to the "clacker", i.e it just outright refuses to swap, so am forced detonate it with the "G" instead? have tried switching to other items and then back to claymore, sometimes this helps, sometimes it still wont toggle to the clacker.
I know tripwire detonation of the claymore is largely considered anachronistic for the RVN timeframe, and in game its an intended assymetric feature - however if tripwires aren't to be considered, then perhaps some different perspective is needed; IRL there was the option for another member of the section to assume control of the clacker if the original operator was incapacitated or otherwise indisposed, where as ingame the lay'n claymore is null & void once its owner dies. As such the ingame claymore has no "legacy" when compared to the NVA traps & mines with those things still racking up sneaky kills, half a match later.
Any students of the Australian experience in South Vietnam here?
Strategists had decided to build a vast protective minefield & fence between the Australian taskforce base & Nui Dat & the coastline, some 10 or 12km away, to free up some patrolling forces for more aggressive search & destroy type missions.
However..... the VC managed to lift large quantities of mines (not claymores specifically, but still mines) from this field and reuse them on ATF patrol routes, elsewhere in the province. I mean, Australians & prob American's were still tripping over those Fk'n things for another 5 or 6 more years yet, losing life & limb
. sortof feel it's only fair that the claymores have a bit more longevity/legacy in game, than just the lifespan of the installer?If tripwires are inconceivable, could it be made that other US squad members can assume control over the "clacker"?
Anyway food for though?
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Claymores are absolutely fine for the assault role when combined with smoke(assuming it works, which it sometimes fails at, and nobody is hacking to make smoke transparent) and aimed at the proper direction.
A little more QOL change may be needed, such as faster detonation speed or maybe make it so user can adjust orientation of it by scrollwheel to place it around corner without exposing entire body; and maybe make the cone wider.
A little more QOL change may be needed, such as faster detonation speed or maybe make it so user can adjust orientation of it by scrollwheel to place it around corner without exposing entire body; and maybe make the cone wider.
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I personally think a point man shouldn't have to pull out the clacker, he should just be able to press g to activate it. Or at least make the animation to pull out and use the clacker much shorter. As it is I cant seem to detonate them before the VC run past. That or they could use an increase in range, realistically a claymore has an effective range of 50m.
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I really tried to like the claymores but I'm afraid I can't make much use of them. I have the impression that the devs struggled to find a place for this weapon and shoved it down the pointmans throat, who would be better off with a more practical weapon for offensive use.
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On cap point B in Compound, I had a claymore setup @ floorboard height & pointing through a slatted handrail/balustrade (assumedly timber), to cover the staircase.
Theoretically this should hit a VC, in the back as they get towards the top of the stairs.
Well, I carefully timed the detonation, but it didnt scratch the intended target, he waltzed through the hail of schrapnel & promptly shot me for my efforts.
surely the claymore has some barrier penetration? Or was i just unlucky with hit registration in that instance?
Theoretically this should hit a VC, in the back as they get towards the top of the stairs.
Well, I carefully timed the detonation, but it didnt scratch the intended target, he waltzed through the hail of schrapnel & promptly shot me for my efforts.
surely the claymore has some barrier penetration? Or was i just unlucky with hit registration in that instance?
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