Classic vs Realism

[Flogger23m]

I think Classic needs the following:

1) Tone down suppression a bit.

2) Increase stamina. In the original modes it was far too long, now it is too short. RO1 was rather spot on, IMO.

The sprinting speed is fine in the snow but might be a bit slow when running on ground. Though I think more stamina will fix most issues of abnormally slow movement.

I like the zoom in classic. Just a bit when looking down the sights. Non-variable, only one mode of zoom as opposed to 2-3 different types layered on top of each other. Quick, not clunky, and seems normal.

 

[Gudenrath]

I think I'm off classic. The leadfooted drunkenly swaying soldiers are just not realistic or that much fun to play.

 

[Srinidhalaya]

I would say Classic. Its the zoom being disabled that sales me. There is no reward equal to plinking a head shot at 200m using good ol' iron sights on a bolt action rifle, in any shooter title. It brings back the challenge. I wish it could be disabled on realism mode, as I find it FAR more realistic than this 'eye squinting' thing.

None the less I really enjoy the update. It brought fire back into the game.

I didn't see the need for a new post, so here are some things I would consider improvements and would like to see down the road.
-Sound mixing levels adjusted. Namely the explosions are way too soft. If it weren't for the de-saturating suppression affect I wouldn't even know they were close to me.
-Bigger maps. The COD scale maps don't provide enough flanking options that RO2's gameplay works so great with. Some of the maps use a fraction of the available space. Kind of like looking at a painting that covers just the middle of the canvas.

 

[Flogger23m]

None the less I really enjoy the update. It brought fire back into the game.

In my case it brought fire that was never in the game initially.

Still needs some work and more content though. IMO it doesn't have the quality of RO1 yet, but it isn't that bad in its current form. It is just too bad it took so long to get in this state.

 

[r5cya]

i'm trying to figure out how you guys can even see a head at anything over 150 meters to shoot at it? whatcha playing on? 60" monitors?

 

[Don Draper]

That is not completely true. The run and shoot effect doesn't come from the realistic feeling of your running avatar, but from the fact that we do respawn after we get killed. Their is no real need to be afraid to die, because we respawn and can continue run and shoot. Take a look at realism mode in combination with CountDown game type. People value their life there and don't run and shoot.

Absoulutly

Get a Life limiter into Realism...say 3 lives per unit....and you will get a very different game, one where the commander and tactics have to be used alot more.....that would blow classic out of the water...even though realism is far superior in terms of "realism" and more enjoyable as it is now over classic.

But a 3 life limit per unit would be sweet....think how the dynamics would change when you have to hunt down there last few men whilst attacking....could get very gritty.

Maybe 5 lifes for rifle man, 4 lifes for sub machine gunners, 2 lifes for HMG and 1 life for sniper and 1 life for Commander.

I dont know why they never did this for realsim mode to begin with...if you want unlimited life then play classic or arcade.

 

[Dionysos]

...
But a 3 life limit per unit would be sweet....think how the dynamics would change when you have to hunt down there last few men whilst attacking....could get very gritty.

Maybe 5 lifes for rifle man, 4 lifes for sub machine gunners, 2 lifes for HMG and 1 life for sniper and 1 life for Commander.

I dont know why they never did this for realsim mode to begin with...if you want unlimited life then play classic or arcade.

This is a pretty cool idea actually, though it might be frustrating for many/beginners. I wonder how hard this would be to implement with a mutator. Maybe you could set the amount of lives each class gets for each map as well. As an additional mode/mutator definitely worth trying imo.

 

[mattlach]

i'm trying to figure out how you guys can even see a head at anything over 150 meters to shoot at it? whatcha playing on? 60" monitors?

I can just about make out a head popping out up to about 170m. Above that I need something scoped or I need to be shooting at full bodies or at muzzle flashes hoping to hit something.

 

[Mekhazzio]

I feel this is a illusion based on being too used to fast paced games, and the problem of FOV and the lack of games being able to deal with dead turning and eyeball movement.

Yeah, it feels slow because I'm expecting Russian Assaults to grenade-jump their speed up so they can grab the German flag at 250 kph. ...or probably not. The FOV in RO2 is narrower than in most games, and the texture detail higher, both of which -should- make things feel faster than they are rather than slower. Besides, these are things we can objectively quantify. The base sprint speed in Realism mode is 5.1 meters per second, for 15 seconds at full stamina. Pace off 75 meters (it's not that far) and give it a go. Odds are good that you'll be able to manage both faster and farther. I'm in absolutely terrible shape and I can smoke the RO2 guys.

We can argue up and down about the effects of campaign fatigue, but the base perspective that some people seem to be coming from, that the Realism mode movement numbers are just too fast to be believable performance from a human, is easily falsified by simply verifying it with the real world.

Likewise for the zoom. I was walking around the other day and spotted someone else at a distance, and because it's the kind of huge nerd I am, out of curiosity I went to check the distance on Google Maps, which turned out to be 1100 meters. In RO2, even with the zoom, you start to lose any ability to discern a standing person at about 300 meters unless they're skylined, and sometimes not even then. That's a huge difference.

 

[Oldih]

Pace off 75 meters (it's not that far) and give it a go. Odds are good that you'll be able to manage both faster and farther. I'm in absolutely terrible shape and I can smoke the RO2 guys.

Now do the same on uneven rubble (perhaps even stairs?) with shoes from late 19th century\early 20th century (Corcorans or other combat boots are fine too, it's not any easier really) with pieces of uneven iron at the bottom without losing your balance, or simply falling down on your face the nanosecond you take even slightly bad step. Ideally don't forget to tape it for further evidence. Combination of rubble + snow is also pretty fun.

People would probably have less gripes with the default speed if it would scale\have affecting variables on where you're moving and yadayada, which results in the amusing situation where vanilla speed is fine for... let's say

 

[Proud_God]

Regarding the movement speed in Realism: I think it is just right... on smooth, level ground.
What would really improve this game, imo, is slowing down movement on slopes, stairs and uneven ground.

 

[Golf33]

+1 for adjusting movement speed on different terrain. On flat, smooth ground, in PT kit after a normal working week - sure I could outrun the Classic avatar.

After a month out bush, on broken ground, carrying a rifle and patrol order? The frustrated feeling of being unable to coax any more out of your own body is one I find very nicely replicated in Classic. Even getting up and down from prone in boots with rifle and patrol order gets exhausting pretty quickly, especially when starting out hungry, tired and footsore from the march in.

I've mentioned before that there are already games that provide a pretty good model for a movement system that is affected by terrain. Take a look at S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Shadows of Chernobyl. It's missing some great stuff that's in the RO2 avatar movement system, but there's a lot of room for RO2 to pick ideas from the older game, too.

 

[LordSteve]

I think Classic needs the following:

1) Tone down suppression a bit.

2) Increase stamina. In the original modes it was far too long, now it is too short. RO1 was rather spot on, IMO.

The sprinting speed is fine in the snow but might be a bit slow when running on ground. Though I think more stamina will fix most issues of abnormally slow movement.

I like the zoom in classic. Just a bit when looking down the sights. Non-variable, only one mode of zoom as opposed to 2-3 different types layered on top of each other. Quick, not clunky, and seems normal.

Dont turn down the surpression.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

...Likewise for the zoom. I was walking around the other day and spotted someone else at a distance, and because it's the kind of huge nerd I am, out of curiosity I went to check the distance on Google Maps, which turned out to be 1100 meters. In RO2, even with the zoom, you start to lose any ability to discern a standing person at about 300 meters unless they're skylined, and sometimes not even then. That's a huge difference.

And this is why I am always for the zoom/focus feature (in any mode) because I have noticed this as well.

I would just prefer it to be a separate key and not automatically done in iron sights (which is a different topic altogether)

 

[captain pain]

There could be a bit more stamina in Classic, and the lack of shift-zoom is arguable, but I like everything else. I particularly like that the weapons are not rock-steady laser guns for several seconds after bringing the sights up -- shooting is actually a challenge now!

 

[defektive]

Classic, mostly because of the stripped out stats progression system. It's not perfect though...
- Classic Zoom needs to be free and not force-linked to IS, which will also remove the bizarre variable zoom levels; something like a flat x1.7-1.9.
- Classic Stamina needs to be higher. I'm okay with the various movement speeds but ~50% extra Stamina would pull us out of being 50 year old asthmatics - into being 30 year old asthmatics!

 

[dsi1]

Voted Realism.

My gripes with Classic (and they are pretty much totally personal in nature):

- Absolutely massively overdone suppression. I do not enjoy flinching like mad because somebody is pecking rounds off the walls of a room on the next floor of my building. And nor do I enjoy not being able to return fire at all if an automatic is firing anywhere near me. You can argue the realistic merits of such a reaction but that's why Classic is its own separate mode. IMO it's totally ridiculous and often simply hinders my gameplay experience.

- Really slow sprint speed and fast stamina drain. Have one or the other guys, right now it's like every soldier smokes 20 packs a day and is less fit than even I am.

- Lack of zoom. I know your eyes don't actually do this in reality but the whole point of it was to compensate for the small viewing space of a computer monitor vs. a real person's approximate FOV. Playing RO2 without it really makes you appreciate how necessary this feature is.

If you enjoy these differences in Classic mode then I'm glad you found something worth playing in Ro2. But for me, I'll be sticking with Realism mode given the choice.

High suppression is needed to make MGs effective, otherwise you get rambo popping up in the middle of a long burst of MG fire and blowing Ivan's head off.

If you're having problems with stamina you aren't playing right, you can't run yourself into the ground every chance you get. Pace yourself. I love when I see someone sprint past me out of spawn as I slow down, then they hit the fatigue wall and start slowing down, their stamina regen breaks for a bit. Meanwhile I'm walking (at good pace) and soon have a full stamina bar and pass them off while they're still crawling holding down the sprint key.

Lack of zoom is needed to reduce the effectiveness of long ranged combat. On maps like Mamayev you can really see the difference between zoom and no zoom. (people can actually miss a 90 degree sprinting target at ~200 meters without zoom!) In turn this makes snipers better at what they do.

 

[Leweegibo]

Since the patch I had only played classic until today.
Love it, the game is slowed down and i definitely take more care when playing as it can all go to hell so quickly.

Tried realism for the first time today, seemed people were run n' gunning and many times i would shoot a guy just for him to turn around and spray me to death.

While it doesn't seem like classic is more realistic when you look at it, i find the game plays in a more realistic fashion.

 

[Westernesse]

Realism outside of things like no stamina/bandages in classic, classic mode makes me feel invincible as I use my 3240x1920 res to pixel snipe people from 200m + who have very little chance of spotting me with their lower resolutions and lack of a zoom feature. It's funny that playing in a semi- exposed spot a ways back form the main fight on classic mode as mg, bolt, marksmen or semi-auto rifle will result in me often getting 25-30 kills and dying 0-2 times (usually when the enemy gets inside of 50m or in CQC). While the same spots on realism lead to me dying 10+ times and about the same on kills. What a difference that zoom feature makes.

IRL, I'm gonna get shot up at 200m just like in realism mode.

 

[defektive]

Lack of zoom is needed to reduce the effectiveness of long ranged combat.

Not sure I