Classic: remove forced ironsight zoom

[LugNut]

Not really. A rank beginner can hit a man sized target at the range without much trouble with a bolt. Granted, with time to aim and not in a combat situation.

Kleist, I completely understand what you mean and agree. We fight at short ranges and there's not an appropriate amount of sway in most situations, leading to a high kill rate. Removing the distance markers would also help battles feel like they're bigger.

The adjustable sights are a nice feature but essentially useless as most rifles shoot almost flat at 200 m and there's only a few places on a couple maps that you can even see out to 300m. I've only used it occasionally in MG and marksman class as it's easy to simply adjust your aim. I think it's impossible (someone plz prove me wrong) to get a 500m kill in RO2 because you just can't see that far. Rifles are effective weapons at long range, yet we have no long ranges in game. It's a pity.

 

[Sulman]

Kleist, I completely understand what you mean and agree. We fight at short ranges and there's not an appropriate amount of sway in most situations, leading to a high kill rate. Removing the distance markers would also help battles feel like they're bigger.

People fear sway, but it's an excellent abstraction of the difficulties of shooting a big awkward weapon. Right now, a battle rifle points like a water pistol, it is a bit silly. I know there are many that didn't like RO1's method (especially SMG fans) but it produced some superb gameplay.

The maps are an important factor. It's Stalingrad, so what can you do...but in RO1, the rifle was king. In RO2, it's all about automatic CQB situations. Honestly, up close RO2 is like any other shooter; it is when the range goes up it starts to shine, but the servers don't run enough maps like that.

 

[potehto]

I think it's impossible (someone plz prove me wrong) to get a 500m kill in RO2 because you just can't see that far.

I have gotten kills from this far on barashka with iron sights mosin. However that map is pretty much the only map played often with long ranges like that.

I do think that more sway, no zoom and no kill distance indicator would make for some marvelous firefights. But there seems to be a question of whether for ballistic purposes we use the distance that was built into the map, or the adjusted one for what we see. I think it should be the one we see, the actual distance is really the distorted one with the way field of view and zoom work.

 

[LugNut]

Geez man, you should post the screenie here:

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=58772&highlight=longest+range+shot&page=1

There's only one from over 400m (550m, see proven wrong already ) and it's scoped, from one side of Olgendow to the other. Almost all are < 300m.

It's an interesting thread to see what most people consider "long range"...

 

[Kleist]

Today I have play with my 17" Notebook, high settings (low shadow) and 1440x900.

I have play Spartanovka and Fallen Fighters, and I have try to estimate the distance at this maps. Feel distance (without any zoom) and show distance (Kill message).

If you play as a German at Fallen Fighters and you use the HMG-34 at central square and shot at the enemy (bots) on the other side of the square, behind the wall, the killdistance is 80m but it feels like 160m and the same when you kill enemys near cap A the game shows me a kill distance of 100-110m but it feels like 200m

So I would generally say without zoom everything is twice as far away than the kill message show you.

Same for Spartanovka everthing seems twice as far away without zoom.

That

 

[potehto]

My teammates were saying there was an mg reeking havoc on the right flank, and low and behold, I could barely see a mg silhouetted against a hill, and nice continuous muzzle flashes. Actually took me quite a few shots to take him out, I was quite surprised that he didn't take cover. Unfortunately I play on a bootcamped macbook pro, so taking screenshots is kind of confusing seeing as the function keys don't really work for me.

 

[Andreson]

Today I have play with my 17" Notebook, high settings (low shadow) and 1440x900.

I have play Spartanovka and Fallen Fighters, and I have try to estimate the distance at this maps. Feel distance (without any zoom) and show distance (Kill message).

If you play as a German at Fallen Fighters and you use the HMG-34 at central square and shot at the enemy (bots) on the other side of the square, behind the wall, the killdistance is 80m but it feels like 160m and the same when you kill enemys near cap A the game shows me a kill distance of 100-110m but it feels like 200m

So I would generally say without zoom everything is twice as far away than the kill message show you.

Same for Spartanovka everthing seems twice as far away without zoom.

That

 

[Kleist]

Some Screenshots (22" Ultra Settings)

First one from Spartanovka Town Hall to Chruch

I haven

 

[r5cya]

those pics won't work to show what targets look like without zoom. they don't fit our monitors, so they are zoomed.

 

[LugNut]

I'd estimate that from the church to the town hall is under 200m, probably @ 165 or so. Edge to edge on the map is @ 300m I think.

The feeling that distances are longer than they actually are in game is one of the reasons I like Classic. I know the movement speeds are accurate (except over uneven terrain and with little inertia) in Realism, but since it feels like they are traveling much farther than they should be in the same amount of time, it's just feels way too fast.

 

[Korn-Y]

I'm back from the RS Beta, and..., this is not with RS that TWI will prove they are listenning us...

 

[LugNut]

this is not with RS that TWI will prove they are listenning us...

Sorry, I didn't understand this. They have not made any changes? They have? Did you play on a Classic server?

 

[Korn-Y]

Sorry, I didn't understand this. They have not made any changes? They have? Did you play on a Classic server?

I don't have noticed gameplay changes, no. (And yes, on a Classic server)
Actually, only one : sprint speed. It's now affected when you run (or walk) on water and I think also by the terrain. At the moment, with this change Realism sprint speed & stamina isn't that bad.

Flamethrowers & mortars are "new" but it's still a pain (not hard, but stupid) to play on so much small maps with zoom and no real difficulties to hit a far target. (I don't like huge ArmA maps either.)

 

[CocaineInMyBrain]

Flamethrowers & mortars are "new" but it's still a pain (not hard, but stupid) to play on so much small maps with zoom and no real difficulties to hit a far target. (I don't like huge ArmA maps either.)

Which maps are the flamethrower available on? If its all of them I can definitely see a problem, especially on a map like Betio (not sure how its spelled) ( the really tiny island one in one of the game-play demos). Also were the indicator lines for the mortar turned on in Classic? because there is an option to turn them off.

Also how big would you say the Iwo Jima map is, as from the game-play trailers it looks like the most substantial of all of them?

Sorry for the long barrage of questions, but I haven't been lucky enough to snag a key and some questions are really bugging me.

 

[Korn-Y]

Which maps are the flamethrower available on? If its all of them I can definitely see a problem, especially on a map like Betio (not sure how its spelled) ( the really tiny island one in one of the game-play demos). Also were the indicator lines for the mortar turned on in Classic? because there is an option to turn them off.

Also how big would you say the Iwo Jima map is, as from the game-play trailers it looks like the most substantial of all of them?

Sorry for the long barrage of questions, but I haven't been lucky enough to snag a key and some questions are really bugging me.

Flamethrowers are available on all the maps. Betio isn't in the beta though (the one with the japanese respawn bunkers, marines vs marines? right? Not in the beta at the moment)

Mortar line is ON in Classic. I don't think you have an option to turn it off (server setting?) But this line is pretty useless. It's more an immersion breaker than useful : You don't really see where you will hit so you just see a line in a sky... At the moment, Mortars are a lot more effective if you use it like a grenade launcher, it's faster and it's pretty easy to know where it will hit with experience. (MW2 feelings' back, whohooo!)

IwoJima: To the last capture zone to the 1st marine spawn (To the top of the hill to the beach) there are 230meters precisely. It make me think Spartanovka (Church to the last building) but wider and a bit longer. But since this is a hill this is harder to play than Spartanovka, and funnier. I feel like this is the biggest map (not many jungle foliage or trees)

 

[CocaineInMyBrain]

Flamethrowers are available on all the maps. Betio isn't in the beta though (the one with the japanese respawn bunkers, marines vs marines? right? Not in the beta at the moment)

Mortar line is ON in Classic. I don't think you have an option to turn it off (server setting?) But this line is pretty useless. It's more an immersion breaker than useful : You don't really see where you will hit so you just see a line in a sky... At the moment, Mortars are a lot more effective if you use it like a grenade launcher, it's faster and it's pretty easy to know where it will hit with experience. (MW2 feelings' back, whohooo!)

IwoJima: To the last capture zone to the 1st marine spawn (To the top of the hill to the beach) there are 230meters precisely. It make me think Spartanovka (Church to the last building) but wider and a bit longer. But since this is a hill this is harder to play than Spartanovka, and funnier. I feel like this is the biggest map (not many jungle foliage or trees)

I was pretty sure that in the thread about the knee-mortar the RS devs have stated that it will be an optional setting for admins to use. That being said the true effectiveness of the knee-mortar is still to be tested, but hopefully like some others of suggested in the other thread that a longer set up/ deploy time is put in to avoid the "noobtubing" that seems to be happening. Well thats kind of odd that the lines don't even help, since the main worry was that they would make them too easy to use. One problem for another I guess

Huh, I wonder why Betio didn't make it in - weird. But flame-throwers shouldn't be a huge problem unless too many are available, since they do have a slew of draw backs in order to be deadly at close range. but this of course is an educated guess as I have not actually played RS.

 

[Kleist]

Any news about a No-Zoom-Mutator in work?


I like to play with no zoom all the time, but what really frustrate me is the god damn MG-shift-zoom. It

 

[Fisher]

I really wish someone would be able to get the ball rolling.

I've been thinking into it more, and finally properly understand why firefights are better without ironsight zoom. It's all about distance and view. In RO1 without any ironsight zoom, if you see an enemy in the distance, you use ironsights for better accuracy, but the distance between you and the target is the same. In RO2 with ironsight zoom, if you spot an enemy, you go into ironsights and you are effectively decreasing the distance between you and the target dramatically. Therefore, the distance between people in firefights is artificially decreased, making the target vastly easier to hit, and an easier target means less of a firefight.

Not only this, but also ironsight zoom forces people to use ironsights as a way of spotting people. This means that, for example, anyone advancing in the enemy's (who is in ironsights) direction is at a distinct disadvantage, because the enemy is artificially closer to them than they are to the enemy. This not only promotes "camping" instead of advancing to the objective, but also increases the death rate, and therefore decreases the likelihood of firefights.

 

[Proud_God]

I really wish someone would be able to get the ball rolling.

I've been thinking into it more, and finally properly understand why firefights are better without ironsight zoom. It's all about distance and view. In RO1 without any ironsight zoom, if you see an enemy in the distance, you use ironsights for better accuracy, but the distance between you and the target is the same. In RO2 with ironsight zoom, if you spot an enemy, you go into ironsights and you are effectively decreasing the distance between you and the target dramatically. Therefore, the distance between people in firefights is artificially decreased, making the target vastly easier to hit, and an easier target means less of a firefight.

Not only this, but also ironsight zoom forces people to use ironsights as a way of spotting people. This means that, for example, anyone advancing in the enemy's (who is in ironsights) direction is at a distinct disadvantage, because the enemy is artificially closer to them than they are to the enemy. This not only promotes "camping" instead of advancing to the objective, but also increases the death rate, and therefore decreases the likelihood of firefights.

True that.

 

[Deverica Wolf]

I tried the Iron Sight settings at -3 like on the first page. It zooms almost not at all and is real nice. I never noticed the delay I had when shooting because of the default zoom. When in an up-close fight, the zoom is a real pain in the ***. I used to wonder why I felt so closed in when hiding in a crater and confronted on maps like Winterwald or Spartanovka, and now I know why.

With that said, I sadly must continuously use the mega zoom (Shift Focus) because I find myself simply not being able to see what I am shooting at when at a distance. It'd be one thing if others couldn't see me too but they can so I am being sniped. I've made several distant kills using the no-zoom sights but it's too risky if trying to win.

I think the cyborg eyes are ridiculous. In a super-realistic game, who the hell approved this? I mean, really, who the hell did? Humans can not zoom in like binoculars. Is this some sort of joke?

I agree that firefights would occur much more without the zoom, making the battles more real. There are times I run feeling well that I am not being viewed and then I am killed because people can see SO far. It's real bad, Tripwire. I think the whole game would become scarier not being able to see what's far ahead for normal infantry. People would be more cautious too.

I think what should be done is this: Have no zoom for normal iron sights, and for the Focus, simply have the iron sights be brought closer to the eye. I notice that the iron sights are a slight bit distant and blurry. When you focus, it gets closer and clearer, but with that horrible robot zoom. So remove the zoom and you have your focus. It would make a difference and is the only option I think you have. WWII soldiers did not have bionic eyes. If you keep this stupid thing in, you better start adding infinite running stamina and the ability to fly.