Class restriction and preventing weapon stealing

[The_Emperor]

Heyho lads!

Someone yet mentioned in another thread that not all classes should be selectable from scratch. I agree with this. I thought some hours about it and now I'd like to present it to you.

The class which should be acessible from start should be rifleman.
No other class is available at first except this one.
The next class being unlocked should be the smg roles (Avtomatchik + MP-Sch

 

[RedGuardist]

Does not sound very user friendly. And there

 

[LionbI4]

I don't like it.
1. Play time don't show how good you are.
2. Sometimes we will not have tank crew, leaders, machine gunners at all, simply because we don't have anyone with unlocked classes. Imagine, if your team don't have combat engineer to destroy the doors/objective.
3. Grind for "playtime" will be a must. I don't like grind.
4. How can I play tank maps at start?

I prefer Americas Army system, which solves all mentioned problems:
You could create a server with minimum honor limit, so unexperienced players will not be able to join the server.
People unlocks classes by doing local training with that classes.
At the beginning of the round most successful players are able to select classes first.

 

[The_Emperor]

well it is/was a suggestion to help handling the classes. I thought it might help the current problem of having an unexperienced gamer playing as squad leader who's sending artillery anywhere but where it could take effect.

A boot camp would be a nice idea but I'm not sure that too many newcomers would go for it. Particularly CoD folks are "trained" for instant action rather than learning "how do I play?"
Don't get me wrong I like the idea very much.

 

[Bashenka]

Personally I like the system in RO just the way it is. Everyone is entitled to the full game, and it really annoys me when people complain about a "noob" sniper, or whatnot. How else is someone going to learn to snipe? They have to play in order to become better.

And as for the TK suggestion, what happens about accidental TKs? They do happen after all, and you already get punished enough as is (generally booted off the server after 3 TKs, which I believe has happened to all of us) . The system you describe punishes all TKs, whether there was malicious intent or not.

 

[Pvt.Skoko]

Bad idea with the hours of gameplay,

Eventually everyone will have over 20 hours of gameplay and the new system will repeat itself,
also 5 hours of gameplay with a rifle does not make you a good suppressing element with the MG42


I LIKE the tutorial training area idea. It can be part of the single player mode.

 

[Matt Baker]

sorry but this is an bad idea, I hate games that I use money on and I can

 

[Temporary]

hours of playing ? => not that bad, still meh tho

short training camp tutorials ? => much better, it teaches some vital details



The thing is : if there's no tutorials, play the easy card and pull the "hours of playing" card, don't let it wild.

a CoD-kid squatting the sniper class (and camping way behind) can kill a map, don't let that happen again, I'm really sick of this on RO:Ost (same with squad leader never dropping a smoke)

 

[The_Emperor]

Hell no! I'd never blame someone who is encouraged to do better but still fails!

A sniper is someone who picks off targets far away. A "noob" sniper, is a sniper who needs the scope to hit enemies at a distance of less than 50 meters. This is a descendant of CoD who is used to everyone having scoped rifles firing at that distance. This is not really the idea for me behind sniping. RedGuardist yet pointed out that real sniping is not possible in RO, but we could try to approach it a bit. Otherwise it feels like CoD

Concerning the hour system, as HoS will have the Hero system I thought advance can be covered by time. You all now tell me this is wrong. I accept that. So now more postings telling me it's a stupid or bad idea, cause I got that. So now after I failed in the attempt to improve and we all know what is wrong you sh/could bring forward your suggestions how we can prevent stupid artillery strikes into the own front line? How can we keep this from RO2? Any ideas except the tutorial, although I really like this idea, it might lack attention by newcomers, to solve this issue?

 

[slash]

aww i disagree with you so much, all weps and stuff should be avalible as soon as you start playing the game. how should u else learn how to play with them. why do you compare cod with ro? 2 differents games, and "Particularly CoD folks are "trained" for instant action rather than learning "how do I play?" what do you mean with "how do i play"

 

[Gaston!]

OK, so suggestions, eh?

For "misuse" of classes: I can understand frustration with people doing stupid things with their class. Arty on an area you control, or not throwing smoke when you're attacking, or throwing too much when you're defending, can be very frustrating indeed, but overall I don't see this as a huge flaw in the game. Making mistakes is how you learn. I don't think anybody has ever grabbed a complexed roll and been amazing at it their first time playing. So it's annoying yes, but necessary, because that's how people learn. Besides which, there have been plenty of incompetent support crews and commanders throughout history. Now I do like the idea of having a training type thing in the single player campaign, and I bet they're going to do something like that.

For weapon stealing: I think in game kicks are ample enough to combat this. If someone keeps knifing your hand to make your drop your weapon you can put them up to a vote kick. If they actually kill you to steal your weapon they'll be auto kicked soon anyway. Besides, if someone if afk it can be necessary sometimes. I've never seen this as such a big problem to be honest.

 

[Zetsumei]

I prefer a small training system to use a certain class. Not elaborate but that someone as a squadleader atleast knows some basic things about throwing smoke and calling in artillery.

If a good stat system is created that predicts skill relatively accurate, then it would be nice to allow servers to set a min and max stat level. So that people that are considered strong don't join a newcommer server and slightly visa versa.
Together with this players would be able to see the relative difficulty of an online server just like with singleplayer. And with that allows him to pick a server to his liking. (And allows for matchmaking systems as well, personally i think matchmaking is a good thing as long as you can continue to pick a server yourself).

 

[Sensemann]

stealing weapons

stealing weapons

I don't understand what's so hard to prevent people of teamkilling to steal weapons? Don't punish them with -10 score! It should just be impossible for you to pick up the weapon of the guy you teamkilled. TKs can happen by accident. -1 point is the punishment. A guy that is tk for the weapon is not caring about the point punishment but might not tk as he knows he cannot pick up the weapon anyway...

About freeing up the classes after game time: NO WAY!!! How about selling game classes via DLC? hahaha

 

[The_Emperor]

I don't understand what's so hard to prevent people of teamkilling to steal weapons? Don't punish them with -10 score! It should just be impossible for you to pick up the weapon of the guy you teamkilled. TKs can happen by accident. -1 point is the punishment. A guy that is tk for the weapon is not caring about the point punishment but might not tk as he knows he cannot pick up the weapon anyway...

About freeing up the classes after game time: NO WAY!!! How about selling game classes via DLC? hahaha

I got it, it was a very bad idea to bring up time unlocking , might stop punching me?

So guys lets think of the tutorial, how can we get a good tutorial done for the squad leader. How we can show them how much smoke is needed for what situation? Artillery practice is surely easier to manage.

 

[Zetsumei]

with smoke the main thing is just to show that you must throw smoke at the enemy. And basically never force your guys to walk through the smoke. Because you then come out blinded with others pointing at you.

Basically smoke should be used as a temporarily wall you don't walk in it you walk by it so you can continue to see. Because way too often when using smoke now although it blocks the vision of the enemy it blocks my vision even more.

 

[Sensemann]

I got it, it was a very bad idea to bring up time unlocking , might stop punching me?

So guys lets think of the tutorial, how can we get a good tutorial done for the squad leader. How we can show them how much smoke is needed for what situation? Artillery practice is surely easier to manage.

No, I am not saying that the idea was a bad one. It was a good idea, as I think all ideas are good. They are opening many eyes to discuss about pros and cons. After reading your post I thought: Sounds good (except the part that you need tankcrewmen and engineers from the beginning). I thought about: People finishing the Singleplayer campaign are allowed to use these online. But then again: I don't want restrictions...

I rather have all classes being available to everybody right from the beginning. It would be good to have a quickvote system installed where let's say if 50% of the team are against Player "Ultranoob" as a sniper, he will get the rifleman role and the Sniper role is free for the next one to pick. I think that would help.
On the other hand, I also agree with what was mentioned before: A player has to be SL in order to learn it. When is it better to learn than in a battle?

I totally agree with your point about preventing teamkills for weapons: It should be simply impossible for you to pick up the weapons from the guy you teamkilled, no matter if on purpose or by accident.

 

[Gaston!]

I'd rather still be able to pick up someone's weapon after a TK. Not because I want to be lenient on TKers mind you. It doesn't make any sense that you wouldn't be able to pick up someone's weapon after you killed them, on purpose or by accident. I'd be more up to it if there was some way to destinguish between purposeful and accidental TK. But there have been times when I've TKed someone on accident and then taken their weapon because it was better for the map/situation/etc. TKers are punished by vote-kicks, I don't see a need to model rules that will hurt the majority of the community as well.

As for the tutorial, it should be part of the single player campaign for sure. TWI could just make senarios where you need to use weapons properly to beat the level. Like if you're running around as a sniper you'll get gunned down and if you're not covering your teammates with the MG they'll get killified, so that people just learn from context. Or they could do something along the lines of the COD2 did with the Russian campaign, where you're a conscript and are trained in a very literal sense. But if the training is too intense then they run the risk of making the campaign too boring or too fake by trying to train one soldier in every type of weapon operation in a 10 minute basic training course.