Changing Player Heal Mechanics
- Thread starter ChronoLogic
- Start date
Working as a team and playing stupidly are different things.
Hiding behind cover is smart.
Avoiding damage is smart.
Using physical cover is smart.
Running to the medic in a straight line is smart.
Standing still with faith in the medic is smart.
Running up and back the entire game is stupid.
Dodging mobs that don't shoot and are thirty feet away is stupid.
Running side to side and functioning as a bulletproof vest for specimens is stupid.
Running side to side and blocking grenades that kill players is stupid.
Not using cover is stupid.
what a horrible idea. To help You further in understanding what to put in this section of the forum, consider this: look at the features of the game that are imbalanced (too weak or too powerful) not a random game mechanics. Your post is completely useless, it does not solve any imbalance or an issue and therefore I voted no. I hope You understood what message I tried to convey.
Um, biggest issue that I see with this is that at lower level a) you'll have fewer heals, b) they'll heal fewer HPs and c) people tend to need more heals.
I guess you could admittedly get around this by just taking EVERY medic gun at lower level, but still.
I guess you could admittedly get around this by just taking EVERY medic gun at lower level, but still.
This idea was intended to promote teamwork and cooperation. I don't see anything wrong with that. As for looking at balance suggestions, all I ever see are suggestions to make the game easier and horribly ruin the challenges higher difficulties are supposed to present: Give Sharpshooter weapons, the perk meant to land headshots, greater damage on body shots; Have players automatically drop all weapons upon death; We need Medic grenade launchers since 5 AoE heals and infinite streams of medic darts (that basically don't have any cooldown b/c of high recharge rate and ability to hold 2+ at a time) is still "too hard". I'm sure that if I proposed that M99 ammo should return to its original cost, or Scythe to return to its original state of body-stunning scrakes, or Buzzsaw Bow become as cheap as when it was during its introduction, I would have had "plenty" more agrees/positives. This is the sad thing: nobody is ever for suggestions to increase the difficulty of Hell on Earth. Where has that led this game? The game has slowly progressed into becoming easier and easier, more casual on higher difficulties. A lot of things we have now [a 60% faster Xbow, Commando's potential to essentially carry 2 SCARs (FNFAL ACOG), MK23, HSG-1 (personally I believe this outclasses other shotguns), M99, 5 Medic grenades that can hold off specimens for like 10 seconds and heal at the same time, another 3-block Medic gun, AoE on all Zerk Weapons, etc.] would have probably been labeled as OP a long time ago. People that show your reluctance to "any" slight changes to make this game challenging without "any" possible thought on their implications has made this game as easy as it is now.
As for your "message", I've laid a purpose in changing this game mechanic meaning that it wasn't some randomly conjured thought. Your reason to disagree was that my suggestion doesn't fix an old game imbalance nor fix any issue. Most suggestions on this forum don't fix old imbalances, and the issue this suggestion was intended to fix was a lack of teamwork. You haven't provided any actual reasons as to what would make this change unviable as others have done before you. Had you done so, I would have taken and considered your words as I had done with other comments. Follow suit and don't be an idiot by posting unsubstantiated messages with ill or offensive intent.
I considered that as well, and that is true, but all I really thought was that lower level Medics would probably play on lower difficulties (which I guess this thought doesn't make anything much better), and that the leveling requirements for levels 1-5 are already incredibly easy to get.
Lower difficulties makes it worse for a medic. On harder difficulties, most of the time you're either fine or dead. On lower difficulties is where their healing is used far more IMHO.
Also, levelling requirements might get harder for medics if you need to be high lvl to effectively level. At L1-3, even on normal it'll take a few waves to build up the cash to get all the medic guns, even assuming you don't die, and the game lasts a decent number of waves.
I'm all for making things harder, but there's normally a soft cap on hardness. Making a character clutch 100 zeds on HoE with only 3 self-heals left seems to be nigh-making it impossible.
Also, I know that you're intending that this will promote teamplay, but would it really? atm, if I have a spare couple seconds I'll pull out my syringe and stab anyone nearby in an effort to bump them up that last couple HPs to full health.
If I know I only had 5 self-heals in a game... I don't know if I'd be so eager to help out my teamates because if I end up clutching, I'll need every last one of those to have a chance of surviving.
Also, levelling requirements might get harder for medics if you need to be high lvl to effectively level. At L1-3, even on normal it'll take a few waves to build up the cash to get all the medic guns, even assuming you don't die, and the game lasts a decent number of waves.
I'm all for making things harder, but there's normally a soft cap on hardness. Making a character clutch 100 zeds on HoE with only 3 self-heals left seems to be nigh-making it impossible.
Also, I know that you're intending that this will promote teamplay, but would it really? atm, if I have a spare couple seconds I'll pull out my syringe and stab anyone nearby in an effort to bump them up that last couple HPs to full health.
If I know I only had 5 self-heals in a game... I don't know if I'd be so eager to help out my teamates because if I end up clutching, I'll need every last one of those to have a chance of surviving.
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I suppose, but assuming you were level 0 and you held an MP7M alone, you would get (12)(22) + (12)(22)= 528 + Medic Grenades "potential" heal points in 1 wave, which would be enough to level up a Medic from Level 0 to somewhat close to Level 2.
Alright, I can agree with this one. The difficulty for clutching will be raised immensely. But generally, from my experiences, when a team wipes but has a Medic, the final players are usually Medic and some other player that makes it out with them.
The only other solution would probably be ammo boxes fully refilling the capacity of heal-points. A player will only be supplied an additional 5 heals, but after that they'll just have to learn to play more skillfully to try to take less damage (though I know that it will still be very, very difficult).
That depends on each player's mentality I suppose. If you are able to keep your team alive then there will be no need to clutch, or at least you'd take out more enemies before you are forced to clutch (though you'll also be at fewer heals then too).
Impossible.
I am not the best medic but I'm a good sharp so my aim isn't bad and I average about 50% on my darts.
In fact if I was going to do anything with the darts I'd make it so that if your holding a medic gun and hit q (self heal) then you shoot yourself with the gun instead of putting away the perfectly working gun to pull out the slow syringe.
I am not the best medic but I'm a good sharp so my aim isn't bad and I average about 50% on my darts.
In fact if I was going to do anything with the darts I'd make it so that if your holding a medic gun and hit q (self heal) then you shoot yourself with the gun instead of putting away the perfectly working gun to pull out the slow syringe.
I don't neccessarily 100% agree with the idea, but having read through this thread a few times I have to ask. Am I the only damned person that thinks that the medic has too much healing power? You have the syringe, 4 Medic rifles all with seperate recharges, Medic grenades, and the unbelievably fast recharge that comes with being level 6 (You know, the recharge that was designed with only the medic syringe in mind).
I mean for **** sake, just how much healing power do you guys want!? The suggestion has merit, stop saying it can't work.
I mean for **** sake, just how much healing power do you guys want!? The suggestion has merit, stop saying it can't work.
Spoiler!
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I think a few people have said it might make for an interesting mutator, just not something to be incorporated into the main game. At least, I'm hoping other people said it could be a fun mutator. *hopes*
Plus it's the "Ideas and Suggestions" section. It would be weird if the majority of people didn't post "this will never work...blah blah blah" for every topic.
What if all the Medic weapons were from the same pool? So only a Syringe and overall ranged pool? Or even just purely a singular pool that the guns and syringe all pull from?
Actually... tying the guns to the syringe pool might actually fix the toss gun and get full charge instantly problem.
Until you can get 100% dart reg
Until you can get 100% dart reg
As it was said before even with a still teammate or moving one it is hard enough just to heal your teammates with 100% accuracy. The only other balance would be to raise the regenerate speed for healing powers for a medic or give them 150/100 capacity on darts and syringes.
I use to use the glitch when you would drop the medic gun and it would full charge after you pick it up. even though glitches are frowned upon because of the purity of game play and the forums, I believe it was the only balance to how many mis-fires there where when the dart doesn't pout green and looks like you shot a wall when you actually did hit the teammate. Now we are subjected to having to either carry all medic guns we can and still not have enough power to heal your teammates. Before the med gun drop was fixed i was able to carry other weapons that helped in supporting teammates or clutching. But as far as this changing the mechanics of the medic goes it would cost too much money and cripple the whole even more, not more challenging just pure death.
Until you can get 100% dart reg
As it was said before even with a still teammate or moving one it is hard enough just to heal your teammates with 100% accuracy. The only other balance would be to raise the regenerate speed for healing powers for a medic or give them 150/100 capacity on darts and syringes.
I use to use the glitch when you would drop the medic gun and it would full charge after you pick it up. even though glitches are frowned upon because of the purity of game play and the forums, I believe it was the only balance to how many mis-fires there where when the dart doesn't pout green and looks like you shot a wall when you actually did hit the teammate. Now we are subjected to having to either carry all medic guns we can and still not have enough power to heal your teammates. Before the med gun drop was fixed i was able to carry other weapons that helped in supporting teammates or clutching. But as far as this changing the mechanics of the medic goes it would cost too much money and cripple the whole even more, not more challenging just pure death.
Or why not give the medic guns a select number of heals? Keep the syringe at unlimited, but prevent medics from just spamming their medguns everywhere. Treat the medgun as an emergency "oh sh*t, I can't reach that guy in time!!!" sort of thing, where as the medneedle becomes your staple medical device. Give the medic a reason to have that speed boost again.
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I agree with that as well. As a medic with even two medi-rifles you can fire almost a constant stream of darts (I count 6 darts without ANY pause at all). WIth a third gun, you could probably literally keep up a steady stream of darts.
However, if you limit the medic's heals, you're also limiting the other player's heals too, and I think that KF has their heals just right atm.
Perhaps in the future (maybe not in the near future), we'll see a new medigun that'll solve this problem
AA12 style medgun. Shoots med darts semi auto as fast as you can click. Light enough that it can also be carried with the medic LAW, which launches a missile that explodes into the same thing as the med nades except heals more, bigger radius, and hurts zeds more.
Also buff to armor and recharge speed and can carry 11 nades and is as fast as zerk and spawns with 3000 dosh.
heh
That's good, at least you have confidence in your aim; at 50% accuracy with darts, you'd still have 30 long-range, 24 team-heals, and 5 AoE heals potentially so that should still be fine. Also take into consideration that as Sharpshooter, your targets' pathing is very predictable whereas human targets are not. Ergo, you cannot really compare Sharpshooter play to Medic play. As a Medic, you have to predict the pathing of your targets. If someone is running from a specimen or a group of specimens, they'll probably be running fairly linearly; if not, then you'll have to just choose the opportune moment for you. If the situation is dire, you have a Syringe, which I've yet to miss with, and if you're farther away, 5 AoE grenades to cover for mistakes/difficulties.
If it's in regards to the false positives issue others have brought up, then I've already talked of that in prior posts to this one.
That would be fine I guess, so long as it consumes as much as a Syringe self-heal does. If you believe the Syringe is too slow, there are ways to bypass that using keybinds.
That'd be fine in place of limited "Medic gun" heals; however, the newer Medic guns recharge so fast at Lv. 6, it probably wouldn't matter unless you take away or severely decrease the recharge rate for the Medic's heal pool.
Keeping the syringe limited is a major part of the suggestion. Unlimited syringe heals was with the intention of forcing teamwork. Keeping unlimited heals while restricting the Medic, though it does make Medic more skill-intensive to play, mostly serves to devalue the Medic. This suggestion makes Medics more valuable.
That's fine I suppose, but then it should come as a default mutator to come with KF and have separate achievements for beating each map with the mutator on and a full team-all members must be present for at least 9 waves. HoE is easy enough to solo atm. Ironically, Hell is pretty nice. -.-
You aren't the only one. Though "we" may be.
Despite not agreeing fully, thank you.
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Medic has the same healing power as any other class: 10hp/s. Ten health points per seconds - constant health restore value for all perks. And no matter how many healing darts are in player's butt and who made those injections, after 1 second he will have 10HP more... unless he dies in that second. But the best way to prevent his death is to shoot, and better with perked damage.
Let's take for example new Schneidzekk Medic Gun. I think is totally OP, but that's a different subject. It heals 40hp per dart off-perk and it takes 10 seconds to restore its syringe charge from 0 to 100% or 5 seconds for 1 dart.
Player restores 10hp per second, so it takes 4 seconds to restore a single injection received. Then wait only for 1 seconds more and Schneidzekk is ready for making another injection. If you can't wait for one more seconds, don't forget that you have a Syringe too. Since medic gun has charge for 2 darts, and so does Syringe too, non-medic with Schneidzekk can provide non-stop healing for 2 players simultaneously.
Here is a time line:
0s: Heal Player-1 with Schneidzekk. Health restore will last till 4s.
1s: Heal Player-2 with Syringe. Health restore will last till 3s (+2s).
2s: Syringe cool-down. You can switch to another weapon after 1.4s of injection.
3s: Heal Player-2 with Schneidzekk. Health restore will last till 7s (+4s).
4s: Heal Player-1 with Syringe. Health restore will last till 6s (+2s).
5s: Syringe cool-down. Schneidzekk's charge is ready for the next shot.
6s: Heal Player-1 with Schneidzekk. Health restore will last till 10s (+4s).
7s: Heal Player-2 with Syringe (it should be recharged to 50% at this time). Health restore will last till 9s (+2s).
8s-9s: Player-1 got 100hp of healing potion, Player-2 - 80hp. Enough healing, so you can bring your AA12/xbow/SCAR or whatever perked beast you've got and kick some ***.
10s: Schneidzekk is ready for the next healing.
As you can see, non-medic Schneidzekk (MP5 is good for this too, but slightly worse) can provide continuous health restoring for 2 teammates, without trading his firepower. Medic gun can be hold with most of the classic load-outs without sacrificing any firepower:
Support: AA12+HSg+Medgun
Commando: SCAR+AK47+Medgun or FNFAL+Thomson+Medgun
Sharpshooter: Crossbow+MK23+Medgun (you're trading .44, but to you really need magnum at all?).
