Camp spots has to go

[reapersgrin]

um..just putting it out there, but what about having some of the walls and floors of the maps be destructible by zeds and/or players?
because i see it more as a mapping issue, and a zed spawning and zed ai issue. though its just my observation.
*braces for the rest of you to eat me alive*

 

[Spooks]

uhh kiting is most definitely still the easiest way to win hands down. The faux-difficulty perceived by most is due to team incoherence and lack of cohesion. Also if you go up the difficulty levels, camping becomes much more difficult than it used to be, so we would be punishing players for already choosing a more difficult play style which is an asinine idea.

Okay, kiting is easier. Regardless, I can't speak for everyone but perpetual kiting is not what I'd like to see. What I would however like for them to achieve is more incentives to have to move to other camping spots from round to round, and perhaps even during a round. I have no issues with camping, I just want to see more spots utilized. For example, a big creature that is slow but very hard to kill would put pressure to move to another room. Or a rare zed that's carcass stays in the world for the round and emits poison. The point would not be to eliminate the idea of holding down a particular area. Instead the point would be to pressure players to use most/all of the different areas, and perhaps even have to save the "best" areas for the later stages. In other words, keep camping but make it more dynamic. Incentivize players to learn to use camping spots they normally wouldn't have to, instead of figuring out the best spot and using it every single game, every single round.

um..just putting it out there, but what about having some of the walls and floors of the maps be destructible by zeds and/or players?
because i see it more as a mapping issue, and a zed spawning and zed ai issue. though its just my observation.
*braces for the rest of you to eat me alive*

I was thinking of this too. A room/area might have certain safety advantages until it becomes compromised, due to certain obstacles or defenses breaking, or spawn points that activate if something occurs. Could be neat.

 

[varunax]

I don't think map design needs to be changed. Like others have said, people will constantly find new camping spots.

To fix the issue in my opinion...

- The traders location should always be the furthest away from your group on suicidal or higher. This would make it a bit harder for players to run back to their camping spots after every round.

- A new giant worm-like zed that can emerge from underground. This worm zed would act like a tunneling system and allow zeds to crawl out of it. (Similarly to the manholes in Paris). Maybe have the HP of a fleshpound.

- If the giant worm zed is a bit of a stretch, have it so zed blood/gore increases other zeds strength when nearby it. This would make it so the more zeds you kill and the more blood/gore is splattered around, the stronger the other zeds become when they're around the gore. Effectively, having players to decide whether or not it's better to keep staying in the safe zone they've set up or relocate to a different position to avoid the buff zeds.

- Welding needs to be improved so it's actually viable and not just a hindrance. Either give players more welding energy or buff the doors durability. This would give the fleshpounds an actual job to knock the doors down instead of just being bullet sponge. As of now, the scrakes pose more threat than fleshpounds.

Well, that's all I think. It's some minor changes that would improve the game quite a bit without changing the formula too much.

 

[Deathgrip22]

um..just putting it out there, but what about having some of the walls and floors of the maps be destructible by zeds and/or players?
because i see it more as a mapping issue, and a zed spawning and zed ai issue. though its just my observation.
*braces for the rest of you to eat me alive*

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?p=1393843#post1393843

why don't you tell me?

 

[Escadin]

Is this even possible with the engine?

 

[Deathgrip22]

Is this even possible with the engine?

of coarse it is

 

[CrashFu]

Is this even possible with the engine?

We've got destructible lighting and destructible doors, so I don't see why not.

On one hand, this would make for a really cool surprise (or rather, an "OH ****!" moment) the first couple times you see it happen..

On the other hand, eventually you'd just remember which walls are going to come down eventually and plan around it. They'd just become pre-welded doors that YOU can't interact with but the zeds can.

And the sounds of zeds attacking those walls would probably ruin the surprise, once you've witnessed it before...

Bonus mental image: The Fleshpound doing his best Kool-Aid Man impression. *ROAR* OH YEAH!

 

[Spooks]

And the sounds of zeds attacking those walls would probably ruin the surprise, once you've witnessed it before...
impression. *ROAR* OH YEAH!

The surprise factor is a nice bonus, but it will still be a cool element even if you expect it. If they can manage it, there could be several breakable spawn points, so you wont always know exactly which one they'll break first. Keep you on your toes

 

[outofrealman]

I don't think map design needs to be changed. Like others have said, people will constantly find new camping spots.

To fix the issue in my opinion...

- The traders location should always be the furthest away from your group on suicidal or higher. This would make it a bit harder for players to run back to their camping spots after every round.

- A new giant worm-like zed that can emerge from underground. This worm zed would act like a tunneling system and allow zeds to crawl out of it. (Similarly to the manholes in Paris). Maybe have the HP of a fleshpound.

- Welding needs to be improved so it's actually viable and not just a hindrance. Either give players more welding energy or buff the doors durability. This would give the fleshpounds an actual job to knock the doors down instead of just being bullet sponge. As of now, the scrakes pose more threat than fleshpounds.

Well, that's all I think. It's some minor changes that would improve the game quite a bit without changing the formula too much.

So people will just start the wave at the starting location at Burning Paris so the trader will spawn at the camping spot, which can be run back to in 20 seconds.

And how much worm do you plan on spawning? And how big it has to be for a bloat to come out of it?

Like seriously, what the hell is wrong with camping? When I was playing KF1 with my friends we do like all medic games, all support games, and run around when we feels like it, or camp in a small room with 6 supports. If we have not enough player and play with pubs, as a less coordinated team, we camp most of the time, what the hell is wrong with that? Not to mention in KF2 its 10 times harder to camp.

 

[varunax]

So people will just start the wave at the starting location at Burning Paris so the trader will spawn at the camping spot, which can be run back to in 20 seconds.

And how much worm do you plan on spawning? And how big it has to be for a bloat to come out of it?

Like seriously, what the hell is wrong with camping? When I was playing KF1 with my friends we do like all medic games, all support games, and run around when we feels like it, or camp in a small room with 6 supports. If we have not enough player and play with pubs, as a less coordinated team, we camp most of the time, what the hell is wrong with that? Not to mention in KF2 its 10 times harder to camp.

You're using Burning Paris as 1 example. As of now, we have only 3 maps. The change I'm proposing will affect future maps. If you want to camp and play base, there will be custom maps in the future that will have a fortress or bunker map just like in KF1 so why are you hating on this so much? Plus, you can screw around in hard or normal mode. The change would only affect higher difficulties where players WANT a challenge. Don't want a challenge? Stay out of harder difficulties, it's easy as that.

And nothing is wrong with camping, this just makes it harder to stay in 1 place. I'm sorry, but this game gets extremely boring/repetitive when the only good places on the map is the same spot you see every time. This makes 90% of the map just eye candy and not really worth playing in.

Them worm-like zed would spawn minor zeds like the clots, crawlers and maybe stalkers. That's basically it. As I said, it would function like the man holes in Paris.

 

[outofrealman]

You're using Burning Paris as 1 example. As of now, we have only 3 maps. The change I'm proposing will affect future maps. If you want to camp and play base, there will be custom maps in the future that will have a fortress or bunker map just like in KF1 so why are you hating on this so much? Plus, you can screw around in hard or normal mode. The change would only affect higher difficulties where players WANT a challenge. Don't want a challenge? Stay out of harder difficulties, it's easy as that.

And nothing is wrong with camping, this just makes it harder to stay in 1 place. I'm sorry, but this game gets extremely boring/repetitive when the only good places on the map is the same spot you see every time. This makes 90% of the map just eye candy and not really worth playing in.

Them worm-like zed would spawn minor zeds like the clots, crawlers and maybe stalkers. That's basically it. As I said, it would function like the man holes in Paris.

Or they can make less death zones when making the maps? People never go to at least 1/3 of the map even when kiting, because if you go there, you are dead.

There are like 3-4 rooms in KF1 biolab, manor, or even farm if you want to camp.

You want to kite? THEN KITE! Who is stopping you? Problem now is you guys want to punish camping to a point that only kiting is viable tactic. Right now you can camp, but not easily, you can also kite, but its also not easy because you need all 6 people to coordinate.

Why force people to do what you want? You do what you want and I do it my way. Like kf1 foundry you can weld a door on the top floor and 100% of the zeds will come from 1 direction only, but I still kite around with friends or solo from time to time.

Just leave both tactics viable. Also, we have less than 1% of players wining HOE maps, I cant really see what this "cakewalk" people are talking about come from. No games is balanced for the top 5% players only. I can beat HOE kiting, and I want both kiting and camping works.

 

[varunax]

Or they can make less death zones when making the maps? People never go to at least 1/3 of the map even when kiting, because if you go there, you are dead.

There are like 3-4 rooms in KF1 biolab, manor, or even farm if you want to camp.

You want to kite? THEN KITE! Who is stopping you? Problem now is you guys want to punish camping to a point that only kiting is viable tactic. Right now you can camp, but not easily, you can also kite, but its also not easy because you need all 6 people to coordinate.

Why force people to do what you want? You do what you want and I do it my way. Like kf1 foundry you can weld a door on the top floor and 100% of the zeds will come from 1 direction only, but I still kite around with friends or solo from time to time.

Just leave both tactics viable. Also, we have less than 1% of players wining HOE maps, I cant really see what this "cakewalk" people are talking about come from. No games is balanced for the top 5% players only. I can beat HOE kiting, and I want both kiting and camping works.

I think you're completely ignoring what I'm saying. I said there is nothing wrong with camping but do you realize that 99% of this game is finding the perfect spot and camping? You want options yet you're being a huge hypocrite.

People only kite when everybody has died and one guy is the last guy standing.

We just want something other than having 6 medics all sitting outside on Outpost gunning every zed from a mile away before anything but a fleshpound can reach them.

 

[C_Gibby]

In camping, individual skill can shine, whereas kiting heavily relies on ESCAPING zeds.

Gitgud

Here is some quality "camping", where none of the threads replies can do.
Neither can i.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvofhKUKXJo[/URL]

That sure kicks away the retarded line of thought "hurr, crouch and click m1 all day".

 

[Misutoraru]

at the moment i have only see Burning Paris and Biolab have indoor camping spot
the outside area of outpost isnt camping spot, it get multiple entrance for zeds
and even in Burning Paris or Biolab
it need at least 2 support and 1 medic to possibly camp at Sucide
when it reach wave 8-9 where Scarke and FP spawn together, those camping spot are dangerous, 2 supports with AA12 and medic grenade can handle 2-3 Scarke, or 2FP but not more at suicide,
those small camping spot literally become death trap when more large zed spanw together and team co-ordination isnt good
i m not sure how bad it get in HoE

 

[X-plo]

You guys don't get what's so wonderful about having a large, pretty and well designed map, yet only using 1 spot in it?

You people are weird.

 

[Escadin]

That sure kicks away the retarded line of thought "hurr, crouch and click m1 all day".

I find your signature highy irritating and a bit repelling too.
There. It had to be said.


I don't mind making people camp a different spot every wave or even have them ration the good spots for later waves but destructable walls seem very odd. I realize it has cinematic epicness to it but from a balance point of view why even have a wall there in the first place? People will just memorize it on normal and then never go back there afterwards anyway.

Let's face it:
Camping outside in an open street was way more fun and challenging in KF1 than the usual camp positions people used to refer to but I wouldn't want to go there with a random pub team, where communication, teamplay and skill aren't up to the task.
You can't force people to develop these skills, hence there is no point in disallowing easier playstyles.

However, I'd be glad to see some optional maps - in the spirit of objective mode- that offer a variety of dynamic pros and cons for different positions to play with for more experienced and well-established teams.
Destructable walls all around being one of the cons while things like limmited ammo/stationary HMG's, explosives, unique loot etc make up the pros (see this thread).

 

[Lestat13]

How do you do anything but camp when running away teleports Zeds in your face?

 

[mokov]

Finally gets a team consistently make it to HoE Hans, let's be honest. It's boring.

Right now the only thing keeps thing interesting is scrake/fleshpound spawn where it's really ramp things up, otherwise it's really snoozefest... Once we have Sharpshooter/demo who can instagib them it will be even more boring.

You (and your elite squad) must be the only person(s) who gets bored in HoE.
Congratulations!
can i see your steam profile? just to watch that glorious but temporal achievements

 

[outofrealman]

I think you're completely ignoring what I'm saying. I said there is nothing wrong with camping but do you realize that 99% of this game is finding the perfect spot and camping? You want options yet you're being a huge hypocrite.

People only kite when everybody has died and one guy is the last guy standing.

We just want something other than having 6 medics all sitting outside on Outpost gunning every zed from a mile away before anything but a fleshpound can reach them.

Why most people camp is that kiting with 6 random people is almost impossible. Unlike playing with all friends, where you can call out that "Ben is getting garbed" and everybody knows "the commando is getting grabbed and he was guarding the left door".

What will happen for 90% of people is someone scream "i am getting grabbed, help" and nobody knows where he is or which of the 5 people he is referring to. Then a bloat block the door as the commando breaks free and forced to run the other way.

In pub game even if you only have a really ****ty camp spot, people will still camp because with less coordinated team kiting is unrealistically hard. And I really do not think any game will only balanced for those 5% elite players who will fine the game boring on the highest difficulty while constantly setting up a team of 4+ people who know each other.

Like who is the bigger hypocrite here? You people keep yelling that HOE is boring because "my team can just sit there and shoot". You are playing with friends!!! So if you are getting bore with the highest difficulty why dont all of you just play the game the other way? Like no medic game? All commando game? Kite game? Even if I go back to KF1 now where everybody is level 6, still half of the game public games with random players will end up in a wipe on HOE.

Again, the game should not be balanced for those 5% people who find the game boring on HOE and able to set up a 4-6 man elite squad every time they play. I do solo too in both games, because that's non-stop decision making, one wrong move you will get hurt badly or even get killed. Its refreshing to run around the map with 30 zeds running behind you after a few pub games.

 

[varunax]

Why most people camp is that kiting with 6 random people is almost impossible. Unlike playing with all friends, where you can call out that "Ben is getting garbed" and everybody knows "the commando is getting grabbed and he was guarding the left door".

What will happen for 90% of people is someone scream "i am getting grabbed, help" and nobody knows where he is or which of the 5 people he is referring to. Then a bloat block the door as the commando breaks free and forced to run the other way.

In pub game even if you only have a really ****ty camp spot, people will still camp because with less coordinated team kiting is unrealistically hard. And I really do not think any game will only balanced for those 5% elite players who will fine the game boring on the highest difficulty while constantly setting up a team of 4+ people who know each other.

Like who is the bigger hypocrite here? You people keep yelling that HOE is boring because "my team can just sit there and shoot". You are playing with friends!!! So if you are getting bore with the highest difficulty why dont all of you just play the game the other way? Like no medic game? All commando game? Kite game? Even if I go back to KF1 now where everybody is level 6, still half of the game public games with random players will end up in a wipe on HOE.

Again, the game should not be balanced for those 5% people who find the game boring on HOE and able to set up a 4-6 man elite squad every time they play. I do solo too in both games, because that's non-stop decision making, one wrong move you will get hurt badly or even get killed. Its refreshing to run around the map with 30 zeds running behind you after a few pub games.

What are you even going on about? It sounds to me like you're pissed off you can't screw around in KF because people want some tactical play.

You don't get it. It's not about the difficulty of this game. It's not even about camping. You're being completely narrow minded about the whole issue and not looking at the bigger picture because you just don't get it.

People want OPTIONS.

They want strategy and team play. Not 6 medics just crouching at the end of a hallway, holding the left click button and killing everything till a scrake or flesh pound shows up. It's boring, there's no tactical play and it makes killing floor extremely repetitive.

The shear fact that you mentioned all you do is camp with 6 medics/supports just proves that this game needs to be changed. Sorry to burst your bubble but every game that has been balanced; has always been balanced to the 5% hardcore players you're talking about. They don't balance games to casual.