Camp spots has to go

[Spooks]

LOL, okay then you are literally asking the game developers to cater to you without putting forth any effort into addressing the issues you are having. please be more entitled, you're probably going to stop playing this game before it gets out of early access anyways.

The goal is to punish players who choose camping, not eliminate camping entirely (at least I haven't seen any suggestions that could accomplish this). People who genuinely enjoy camping should still be able to do so, but it should be more dangerous than it is. At the end of the day, the game is only as hard as the easiest way to beat it (excluding exploits and hacks of course). Asking the developers to increase the difficulty of what is currently the easiest tactic is not unheard of.

 

[ApacheChief77]

Not sure if its even possible, but had the thought while reading this thread about putting multipliers on spawners, based on clock time/number of times the spawners activated with you in proximity.

For example, if you camped in a spot the spawner would spawn 1x mob... If triggered again (because your camping) in 30 sec it would spawn 2x, 30 seconds later if your still there, 3x, then 4x. This could be coupled with a cool down timer of when it hasn't spawned in 30 sec (because you moved) the multiplier would go down.

It would cause you to eventually be overrun if you stayed on one spot the whole game for every wave, but allow you to defend in one spot for a few waves if you chose to do so. It might even force people eventually run inside from there outdoor camp spots.

As for welding, always thought support should get a better weld, not a way to do it faster. Say a red weld that lasted 3x longer than the current blue one. The reason I stopped playing support in KF1 was because I didn't like spending more time babysitting a door than killing things.

 

[Quintuplin]

The goal is to punish players who choose camping, not eliminate camping entirely (at least I haven't seen any suggestions that could accomplish this). People who genuinely enjoy camping should still be able to do so, but it should be more dangerous than it is. At the end of the day, the game is only as hard as the easiest way to beat it (excluding exploits and hacks of course). Asking the developers to increase the difficulty of what is currently the easiest tactic is not unheard of.

I think what you need is a little bit of waiting for newer, harder maps. It all comes down to the map in question as to how effective camping is, but as it is the mechanics have done more than enough to make it harder than it was in KF1, which is the golden standard we're holding this to ultimately.

 

[JohnNyan]

Remove a camping spot. We'll find another, and another and another.
Make it so all rooms have 4 entrances with a ceeling spawn? We'll find a camping spout in that room.

The Only way to remove camping is to make a map that is Flat, Empty. No walls, No nothing.
You put even 1 pillar in, that will become the camping spot. We'll use it has a shield/kiting pilar/back protection.

You cannot and never will remove camping. It will exist no mater what, all you can do is increase difficulty to make it difficult for campers. But if you do that, then not camping = killed fast vs camping which avoids that. So you'll force more people to camp the more you try to make them not camp.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

Both styles have been nerfed, its just that people don't realize fully yet if and where running is better than camping.

Teleporting zeds means you have to selectively weld some doors which disables some spawns ( on paris in the court yard for example, the small wooden single doors ). Beyond that it also REALLY nerfs moving around as you're ALWAYS surrounded and cannot get more distance. Even FP's and SK's teleport, the only one who doesn't at the moment is HANS..

Similarly Camping indoors is now useless, the doors are paper thin and the lights break, so everything indoors is death ( rather counter intuitive to defence ).


I was always hoping KF2 would just increase the spawn qty of zeds. Go play kf1 with max zeds at 100, its a different game. The main problem (IMO) with camping is that with 6 people, you don't get overwhelmed by trash EVER. Try saying that when you have 100 of the little buggers trundling towards you.


Before TWI tweaks balance much further they should bump the spawn count up to 50-100 range, perhaps lower on earlier waves to make them slightly easier. The whole teleporting thing isn't really needed when you increase the zed count. The playstlye I mostly used in kf1 with high spawn count was to move and stay in areas for a bit then move on before it got too bonkers as camping in one place the whole time was legitimately hard...

 

[Spooks]

I think what you need is a little bit of waiting for newer, harder maps. It all comes down to the map in question as to how effective camping is, but as it is the mechanics have done more than enough to make it harder than it was in KF1, which is the golden standard we're holding this to ultimately.

I agree that we can't really critique it fully until all the maps and zeds are released, and the difficulty is tweaked. The biggest concern is that, while you may have plenty of incentives to hop from place to place indoors, there are often outdoor areas that are just as good a place to hold out in. There isn't much incentive to stay inside, where there exist conditions that prompt movement. But hey, I guess there isn't really anything wrong with having some maps that are easier to camp in then others (I'm looking at you, burning paris).

 

[outofrealman]

I dont know how perfect your team is doing, but I run out of ammo as support half wave starting from wave 5 on hard, unless I ignore the scrakes. I dont really think atm you can really camp on suicidal and HOE, you simply dont have ammo to kill all the big guys.

 

[Chuckdatass]

That's what commandos are for. We don't let our supports use their AA12's for anything but scrakes. Nades for FP's then everything else for trash.

I can't wait for Sharp Shooters....

 

[outofrealman]

That's what commandos are for. We don't let our supports use their AA12's for anything but scrakes. Nades for FP's then everything else for trash.

I can't wait for Sharp Shooters....

I guess if you have 6 friends you can do 3 support 2 commando 1 medic and have all support give extra ammo. But scrakes on hard takes 50-60 shots to kill (even more for FP), you guys really have enough ammo doing this? Each support can only kill like 4-5 bigs even with the extra ammo while ignoring anything else 100%. And they come in packs at wave 9 and 10....

 

[JohnNyan]

I guess if you have 6 friends you can do 3 support 2 commando 1 medic and have all support give extra ammo. But scrakes on hard takes 50-60 shots to kill (even more for FP), you guys really have enough ammo doing this? Each support can only kill like 4-5 bigs even with the extra ammo while ignoring anything else 100%. And they come in packs at wave 9 and 10....

Scrakes on hard take exactly 14 scar bullets to the head to kill. Or 3 shot gun shots. Don't make up bull numbers like 50 bullets, nobody aims for the legs/body. It's all head shots.
Also I can use shotgun only in Hard and without the 20% ammo (unlike new players we vets carry team supply) I never run out of bullets even when taking 3-5 big guys sc/Fp that round while having the top or 2nd highest kills.
Shotguns have penetration for a reason and support scales with that for a reason too. 1 shell should always kill 2+ Zeds or its not worth shooting, just swap to pistol to kill that 1 stray zed. (Clots =€9, 1 shell costs €5. You think it's worth, but it's not.)

Also, this is with a team of randoms even 1-3 new players sometimes (they don't even know how to collect ammo from me)

 

[outofrealman]

Scrakes on hard take exactly 14 scar bullets to the head to kill. Or 3 shot gun shots. Don't make up bull numbers like 50 bullets, nobody aims for the legs/body. It's all head shots.
Also I can use shotgun only in Hard and without the 20% ammo (unlike new players we vets carry team supply) I never run out of bullets even when taking 3-5 big guys sc/Fp that round while having the top or 2nd highest kills.
Shotguns have penetration for a reason and support scales with that for a reason too. 1 shell should always kill 2+ Zeds or its not worth shooting, just swap to pistol to kill that 1 stray zed. (Clots =€9, 1 shell costs €5. You think it's worth, but it's not.)

Also, this is with a team of randoms even 1-3 new players sometimes (they don't even know how to collect ammo from me)

I dont know, when I aim for a scrake's head at a reasonable distance (so he wont chainsaw my face) some of the shotgun pellets goes over his head. Even If I hear the head shot sound everytime I shoot it, it still takes like 8-10 shots to kill a 6-man hard scrake. (if I use the cheese strategy, his shoulder block a lot of the damage)

Simliar thing goes to bloats, if I am out of puke distance, I ADS and his head can be poped in 1 shot or 3 shots (let's assume I miss if I shoot without ADS, so I am only talking about ADS here).

So how about some tips on head shotting scrakes and bloats? I need two head shots to kill even Husk and Sirens.

I mean... if 6-man hard scrakes only takes 3 shots to kill, I am safe to say on HOE its not more than 6 shots. Then why are people complaining support ammo problem (even people who beat HOE have ammo issue)?

 

[Crusad3rMKII]

I feel like camping sometimes doesn't get enough credit: I get to blast hordes to pieces while coordinating with my teammates, focusing on specific targets, communicating when help is needed and depending on others for certain tasks.
I find it quite heartwarming when the game allows me to form a nice firing squad that is dealing with different threats with brutal efficiency (and, if you screw up, you're done, period).

That is not to say, however, that camping should be the only option nor that it should be easy. I agree that 1 way safe campspots make things too dull and the game should enforce at the very least some dynamicity to the fight. On the other hand, kiting shouldn't be the safest way either where you can just run away and have the zeds form a nice row for you to easily pick them off and stay safe (and take like 1 hour per wave...).

I've done my fair share of both kiting and camping in KF2 and I feel the game is already doing fairly well. I do agree with the sentiment that doors having a hidden health pool is perhaps a bit unfair (although part of me likes the idea - it makes sense realistically although gameplaywise it makes welding a LOT less useful) and that teleporting zeds are stupid.
I've played a few games where I camped with my team in one area and then slowly backed off to another place when the situation started going down, which is something I quite like.

With all that said, I really wish KF2 had more voice options. The automatic callouts and battle chatter are nice, but I miss having my 10+ keys bound to different voice commands...

 

[Amber Glass]

The goal is to punish players who choose camping, not eliminate camping entirely (at least I haven't seen any suggestions that could accomplish this). People who genuinely enjoy camping should still be able to do so, but it should be more dangerous than it is. At the end of the day, the game is only as hard as the easiest way to beat it (excluding exploits and hacks of course). Asking the developers to increase the difficulty of what is currently the easiest tactic is not unheard of.

uhh kiting is most definitely still the easiest way to win hands down. The faux-difficulty perceived by most is due to team incoherence and lack of cohesion. Also if you go up the difficulty levels, camping becomes much more difficult than it used to be, so we would be punishing players for already choosing a more difficult play style which is an asinine idea.

 

[JohnNyan]

I dont know, when I aim for a scrake's head at a reasonable distance (so he wont chainsaw my face) some of the shotgun pellets goes over his head. Even If I hear the head shot sound everytime I shoot it, it still takes like 8-10 shots to kill a 6-man hard scrake. (if I use the cheese strategy, his shoulder block a lot of the damage)

Simliar thing goes to bloats, if I am out of puke distance, I ADS and his head can be poped in 1 shot or 3 shots (let's assume I miss if I shoot without ADS, so I am only talking about ADS here).

So how about some tips on head shotting scrakes and bloats? I need two head shots to kill even Husk and Sirens.

I mean... if 6-man hard scrakes only takes 3 shots to kill, I am safe to say on HOE its not more than 6 shots. Then why are people complaining support ammo problem (even people who beat HOE have ammo issue)?

6 man HoE scrake takes 6 shots to kill with shotgun to the head. This has been confirmed via Boomstick. If using a different shotgun it would take 45% shots more to account for the extra pellets Boomstick has (12 vs 7) So 10-11 with any shotgun will drop a Scrake.

As for tips on shooting a scrake with assult rifles, shoot in 2-3 bullet bursts (do not use 3-bullet Fire mode. The upward recoil is difficult to counter.) and make sure to crouch seeing how you do not ADS.
The strat if you can't land perfect head shots is to pistol or poke the scrake till he rages. Then 7-10 assault bullets will drop him. If you miss then the clip will take him down.
Do note. This is with the assumption you are lvl25. If not then add 40% onto my rifle number claim and 25% to shotgu.

 

[Beravin]

Sorry, you want me to kite when zeds can materialize themselves right in front of me? No thanks. Besides, kiting takes away from the whole idea of team play, as it basically turns into some silly game of "follow the leader" or "every man for itself". Some classes are better suited for it, and the ones who are not get eaten first and are forced to watch the conga line for 20+ minutes.

I like camping, as its less about holding down my shift key all game and more about being good with my weapons of choice. I need to cover allies and deal with priority targets, all with the dread of knowing we will wipe if we mess up. Perhaps you don't play some of the higher difficulties much, but the enemies are dangerous enough to wipe you even if you know what you are doing.

 

[outofrealman]

6 man HoE scrake takes 6 shots to kill with shotgun to the head. This has been confirmed via Boomstick. If using a different shotgun it would take 45% shots more to account for the extra pellets Boomstick has (12 vs 7) So 10-11 with any shotgun will drop a Scrake.

As for tips on shooting a scrake with assult rifles, shoot in 2-3 bullet bursts (do not use 3-bullet Fire mode. The upward recoil is difficult to counter.) and make sure to crouch seeing how you do not ADS.
The strat if you can't land perfect head shots is to pistol or poke the scrake till he rages. Then 7-10 assault bullets will drop him. If you miss then the clip will take him down.
Do note. This is with the assumption you are lvl25. If not then add 40% onto my rifle number claim and 25% to shotgu.

I have no problem with SCAR killing scrakes if given enough space (which never happen in pub games). I am asking shotguns.

After all that you are still assuming perfect head shots on test maps. Like I said, you either:

1. abuse the AI by stand behind him (which most of his head is blocked by his shoulder, even a solo suicidal scrake take 2 alt fire from the boomstick to decap, not kill)

2. shoot while back paddling. this way most pellets will miss, even if you hear head shot sound, only some pellets is hitting the head.

So any tips on how to place those 6 perfect head shots without getting chainsaw in the face? I tried on solo and aim for his head, it still cost me 10 shots with the AA12 and getting hit once while back paddling (I hear the head shot sound every shot I take). Or how to perfectly hit his head when you stand behind him?

 

[Gudenrath]

More entrances = harder to camp = easier to kite.

Make 4 entrances into each area, and kiting will become a piece of cake.

Not with teleporting zeds.

 

[Dub]

Look at Destiny

Bungie patched it so for the hard raid you couldn't stay in the place that people used as the earlier strat so they learned a new one. You can't stop the community from finding cheeses and strats to make the game easier.

 

[RuMan]

So the game should punish people for camping?

This is the most stupid thing I have read in this forum since I got back from my vacantion this morning.

Camping is not easyer, nor harder. It's a strategy for playing. Not everyone likes to wallk arround killing teleporting zeds. Also in KF2 camping is basically useless right now when we have only those perks.

I hate people who try to push their way of playing to everyone. If you like wallking in circles killing 1 zed at a time for hours and hours and finaly get to wave 2 it's your choise to do so.

Why should the game have only 1 way of playing? I am really bored after 100 hours of kiting on the 3 maps right now. I don't wan't to play KF2 anymore because it's only kiting. Run, shoot the teleporting zeds in front of you untill there are only SC and FP left and then take them one by one by running in circles arround them and hitting them with the hammer or whatever mele you have. It's boring and stupid strategy that takes twice the time to finish a wave.

I say Kiting should go. The game should be considered a fail when there are less than 3 people left alive so that there are no people left to run arround the map for 30 - 40 minutes healing and taking shots from Husks without shooting just so the one SC they decide to deal with kills them.

It's the massive amount of time you have to put for one game that is making me not wanting to play the game anymore. With camping it's ok but kiting games take foooreeeeeeveeeeeeeeer.

 

[KingJoker]

By the way guys camping is something the mappers are responsible for. It's not a gameplay mechanic, it's a level-design mechanic.