Camera shake feedback

[Chyros]

I'm kind of wary commenting on this as I'm not personally affected by camera shake/animations/etc. But I suspect that, despite Tripwire's best efforts, they will have to make options for camera-affecting mechanics.

Camera Shakes: vealck made a good point regarding camera shakes as punishment. I can see it as a balance issue when zeds hit you (as camera shakes there would jerk your aim), but shaking when you hit a zed makes no sense. If Tripwire feels that the latter is a balance issue as well, it would help to explain why.

FOV Change on Sprint: This effect can only be modified in the code, so messing with the animations or whatever won't fix it. In any case, this most likely would not be a balance issue.

Camera Animations: AFAIK many of these are considered excessive, with the HX-25 and M79 reloads being particularly egregious. Balance-wise, there might be an issue with melee attack animations (including weapon bashes), but only there.

There's really no point in having these, and one thing to remember here is that "balance" has absolutely nothing to do with this, don't forget we're discussing a co-op shooter here, not the next CS:GO. You play against the AI, and the difficulty is purely how high you want it. Players can play on easy difficulty levels or hard ones, use crosshairs or play without them. For a cinematic effect which potentially has minor implications at best is not even within two orders of magnitude of either of these options nothing remotely like "balance" is applicable here.

In fact, even many competitive shooters allow far more gameplay-affecting settings like an FOV slider. "Balance" is a 100% moot point here.

 

[taiiat]

Camera Shakes: vealck made a good point regarding camera shakes as punishment. I can see it as a balance issue when zeds hit you (as camera shakes there would jerk your aim), but shaking when you hit a zed makes no sense. If Tripwire feels that the latter is a balance issue as well, it would help to explain why.

Battlefield (4) handles these things by primarily increasing Weapon Spread, rather than causing a Camera Earthquake.

there's still a bit of Camera movement, but it was seriously toned down from previous titles as it causes less motion sickness, is less annoying to see, but still retains the 'debuff' that is being created.

 

[Durpy]

What should be done is tone down the camera shaking when using melee. By shaking its the vibrating that occurs. Also toning down the sprint wiggle is a step in the right path, the reload camera movement needs to be tone down so its subtle. Also animations need to be added for the viewmodels when jumping, falling and landing. If you guys are having trouble trying to get it right just look at how overwatch handles their animations and work with something from there. If you guys remove all camera movement then the game will feel too floaty and weird, so just toning it down in general is a foot in the right path. Remember that the human eye has movement stabilizers so too much wiggling is a problem , so try to work it from the logic that we are in the eyes/head of the character and not a mounted camera.

Also when using melee attacks the shaking should only last for 0.4s to 0.6s

 

[Chyros]

Btw, the camera movement is much better now, I should add . I wouldn't mind the little bobbing thing left being taken off as well, though.

 

[Insert Name Here]

There's really no point in having these, and one thing to remember here is that "balance" has absolutely nothing to do with this, don't forget we're discussing a co-op shooter here, not the next CS:GO. You play against the AI, and the difficulty is purely how high you want it. Players can play on easy difficulty levels or hard ones, use crosshairs or play without them. For a cinematic effect which potentially has minor implications at best is not even within two orders of magnitude of either of these options nothing remotely like "balance" is applicable here.

In fact, even many competitive shooters allow far more gameplay-affecting settings like an FOV slider. "Balance" is a 100% moot point here.

I mention balance because Tripwire themselves explicitly consider it to be a balance issue. Munk even stated during the livestream that they were working on the animations, etc. so they wouldn't have to add any options to disable these features. That said, I believe they will likely have to add these options anyways (and IMO they should).

Battlefield (4) handles these things by primarily increasing Weapon Spread, rather than causing a Camera Earthquake.

there's still a bit of Camera movement, but it was seriously toned down from previous titles as it causes less motion sickness, is less annoying to see, but still retains the 'debuff' that is being created.

That's definitely a good alternative to "zeds-hit-players" shake.

P.S.: Munk, could you comment on the ears-ringing sound? This is only tangentially related to camera shakes (i.e. a mechanic that negatively affects certain players), but is still an important issue. Has Tripwire considered replacing it with an alternate sound, whether by default or optionally?

 

[Chyros]

I mention balance because Tripwire themselves explicitly consider it to be a balance issue. Munk even stated during the livestream that they were working on the animations, etc. so they wouldn't have to add any options to disable these features. That said, I believe they will likely have to add these options anyways (and IMO they should).

REALLY?! Oo That's just bizarre! xD

 

[-Moody-]

4) In most of games, camera shake is a form of punishment for player's mistakes, like going off track in a driving game, etc. It makes it harder to control your character, and it's something you instinctively try to avoid. I would surely understand some camera shake as a result of taking damage, but in KF2 it feels like we're being punished all the time, for no apparent reason. Especially when using melee weapon, where every swing at a zed feels like a punishment, and the whole game as a chore rather than pleasure.

The best way to go about it would be an introduction of a global camera shake off switch in game options, so both people like me and those who like this constant Parkinson's fiesta could enjoy the game.

Have you ever played other games? Because your statement is not true. Camera Shake is very prominent in other First Person Games. A important and well-known example would be Skyrim where everything you does makes a camera shake.

I don't know any game where a global camera shake switch is a thing right now. I think you'd have to redo all the first person animations by doing this and it's a lot of work. TWI needs to find a balance where the camera movement enhances the overall experience and doesn't annoy players or make them sick.

 

[vealck]

In Skyrim the camera sway is nowhere near as noticeable, and mind that playing Skyrim has absolutely nothing to do with precise aiming. Also, there's no feedback upon your weapon hitting things, even if it's a wall. There's only a bump if enemy blocked your hit, which falls into punishment/ failure feedback category. In KF2 every successful attack feels like being electrocuted over and over again.

Also, as far as I'm concerned, camera movement is not an inseparable part of weapon animation in U3. It was tweaked in the past (for example 9mm reload). Perhaps it would be even possible to make camera shake controlled by a slider, so everyone could set his desired level.

 

[NNFX]

When you keep firing and reloading the m79 your Screen will never stay still even when you don't move your mouse at all and this actually gives me motion sickness even tho I'm not susceptible to motion sickness usually.

But thats just my personell no1 thing. In general I would say reduce every screenshake/ movement animation that happens without player input.
I think faster shaking in a smaller (radius) causes less motion sickness while slower moving/ shaking in a bigger (radius) causes more.
Hope you understand me.

There was this plugin in KF1 for rtd which made you "drunk". It would just slowly move your mouse/screen in randomly changing directions.
And I was suprised how well it really made me feel drunk. When I experienced it the first few times I would just try to conquer the screenmovements but noticed, that this is exactly what makes you feel sick. So I would rather just wait till it's over so I wont feel drunk so much.

Now in KF2 it kinda feels like this plugin is build in a little here and there. xD

But leave alone clotgrab. People just trying to get rid of it for another reason only because they didn't like it from the begining for some reason.

 

[Chyros]

When you keep firing and reloading the m79 your Screen will never stay still even when you don't move your mouse at all and this actually gives me motion sickness even tho I'm not susceptible to motion sickness usually.

But thats just my personell no1 thing. In general I would say reduce every screenshake/ movement animation that happens without player input.

Yeah exactly, that's the key really, the screen moving when you're not doing anything. The reloads are the worst, followed closely by sprinting, although that's been toned down now.

 

[Azukki]

Regardless of settings, Medic grenades shouldn't cause camera shake. They lightly fluff out a beneficial gas, but as-is, they disrupt teammates' aim just as badly as high explosives when they first start emitting.

 

[Reptilian]

I don't get motion sick from camera shake/movement. However, I'm opposed to noticeable camera movement that is part of animations, since it can sometimes mess with my aim, and I feel like animations/viewmodels should ideally not make it harder to aim.

 

[LolzMan1325]

tbh the sprinting animations and camera shake look very inconsistent with the sprinting animations of other weapons now

i'd say put back the old sprinting animations and camera shake, but just have an option to disable camera movements completely

 

[Chyros]

tbh the sprinting animations and camera shake look very inconsistent with the sprinting animations of other weapons now

i'd say put back the old sprinting animations and camera shake, but just have an option to disable camera movements completely

I think they put it in as a test run or temp fix, I don't think this is supposed to be a permanent thing.

 

[Katana9990]

One major thing I want changed is the Demo's reload with the HX25 and M79, it hurts my brain to see it reload. I can post a video if needed.