Bullseye Update Preview Beta

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Gregs2k2

Thank you please
Mar 21, 2009
1,855
164
63
UK
www.ragequitters.co.uk
Sorry guys but I think I'm done, there just isn't enough consideration for how new introduced mechanics will affect other perks to the point where every new perk/mechanic is balanced around said perk/mechanic and says FU to everything else.

You'll be missed. Seriously though, give it a chance, TW have already pushed out an update, based on player feedback. Those of you with the same attitude need to appreciate this is the first iteration of a massive update, with tons of changes. Just keep making suggestions, provide constructive feedback and see how it goes from there.
 

infntnub

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 25, 2012
2,313
110
63
Pennsylvania
This patch is the worst we got in a while ,trash zeds feel way too tanky and some resistances are just plain stupid ,not to mention nonsensical zerker nerf. GG TW

I'm getting the sense TWI really expected quite a few of these attempted changes wouldn't "go over" well. Originally I was surprised to see the update offered to us as a BETA option. It's really looking like they approached this correctly, at least.

Hopefully they keep taking the feedback and dropping live updates based on it. It should result in a pretty polished update, when all said and done.



You sure Zerk can tank after Nerf ?

Oh, you...

:):):):)



Sorry guys but I think I'm done, there just isn't enough consideration for how new introduced mechanics will affect other perks to the point where every new perk/mechanic is balanced around said perk/mechanic and says FU to everything else.

I wouldn't let this get you down to the point you abandon ship. It looks like, based on the live update yesterday, this BETA is having exactly the effect TWI had hoped. Instead of just rolling out the update they are letting people choose to test some of the more drastic changes out and then will factor feedback in for the actual update. It seems to be happening already.

Keep coming with the feedback; you have some of the better posts on the board.
 
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infntnub

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 25, 2012
2,313
110
63
Pennsylvania
Just to clarify - in regards to better optimization, was this intended to include Flex?

I can't really tell.

Still stuttering from time to time.
 

Ryno5660

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 11, 2009
1,955
7
0
Norfolk, UK
For what it's worth, the tank tree for zerk is absurdly powerful (NO TWI! LEAVE IT ALONE NOW!) and with a hammer for blunt CC you can do genuine tanking. In my experience anyway.

Then again I have been relegated to playing normal and hard now.
 

Aleflippy

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 18, 2012
2,854
305
83
Belgium
Yeah,but I'd rather be a fragile zerker who deals an awful lot of damage instead of a big bag of health who needs ten hits to kill a siren... Then again maybe it's just me? I'd just like to play the zerker as something else than just a stunner/stumbler...
 

Ryno5660

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 11, 2009
1,955
7
0
Norfolk, UK
Yeah,but I'd rather be a fragile zerker who deals an awful lot of damage instead of a big bag of health who needs ten hits to kill a siren... Then again maybe it's just me? I'd just like to play the zerker as something else than just a stunner/stumbler...

That is fair - My post wasn't trying to say that zerk is now possible and you should play how I say. Infact that is my primary problem with this update, it oozes that.

All I'm saying is the tank tree does indeed seem good - I still got more kills than demo and sharpie with it, just focusing on tanking and using the hammer (in my eyes that is the tank weapon more than others because of slow but CC.
 

Furious Imbecile

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 18, 2014
758
6
0
Finland
All they need to do for Zerk atm is to make parrying a thing again (stumble) and decrease some trash zed resistances to bludgeon/slashing and Zerk is gucchi.

I like the lvl 5 choices since both of them are extremely powerful in their own way.

Parry skill could buff damage resistance for the duration as well. to allow skilled tanking.

New resistances feel good overall (notice I said overall, not completely) since now all the Zeds feel better. Stalker defo needed this buff since she was useless before. Husk feels fun to fight since you can choose to go ham on him or wait for him to expose the plasma tank. Bloat is finally also a force to be reckoned with.
 
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neddie

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 13, 2016
141
0
0
Somehow crossbow is even more useful than it was, because of how the damage resistances work out.
 

Dr Pepper

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 18, 2015
100
7
0
I can't throw the Sharpshooter's weapons in front of me but I can do so with Firebug. Is it just SS that can't throw weapons in front of them?

The railgun only gets 1 ammo from ammo boxes. I think this should be changed to 2 per pickup.

Also is it just me or do Zeds not move as fast on HoE as they did before?
 
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xmodius

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 11, 2016
6
1
3
Parry & Block the same (for the most part)

Parry & Block the same (for the most part)

I have to ask, why did you reduce parry's damage mitigation to the same as a block? To me, having a higher damage mitigation for parry is a reward for player skills since its a bit more tricky to parry an attack vs just block it. It seems like now there's really no reward for a successful parry, except that you'll momentarily interrupt a zed attack.

I gotta say, when fighting scrakes as a zerk, that was a bread n butter approach: parry, retaliate, repeat. Now it seems like I'm going to have to run more. :(
 
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Veny

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 1, 2015
405
19
0
Hm, Demo is now without tier 3 weapon and we have some pretty auto-aim system. How about making some thermo-guided 4-barrel rocket launcher? :D
 

EB0L4

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 4, 2016
88
0
0
Austria
A big hobby of mine in real life is bodybuilding. In forums, in the gym, when talking to people or - I don't know - in kind of any discussion with a people that share the same interest you often get asked about your workout plan, "what system should you use?" and "how often you should change the system?". The answer is kind of the same: "Find something that works for you" and "Never stop a running thing"

So with KF2 finding a way how it can work like building mechanics around damage types, which IMHO clearly makes sense (pistols dealing less damage than rifles due to the smaller caliber, but you know both weapons use bullets). And it is easy to remember and to understand and it works. You can balance stuff like that just by giving perk specific passive bonus values and balancing the damage of the weapon itself, which then ofc will also affect off-perk usage.

And it did work out fine. There were also mechanics like CC or combos you could use to finish off the bigger Zeds. Which is also nice. Cause for solo kills you gotta spend a lot of time on training maps to acquire the needed skill. And in combination with other perks it was even easier, at least for a lineup of good choice and with skilled people playing.


What we have now is a completely overhauled system which affects the roots of the game. We asked for balancing, and do not get me wrong here, the change in the skill trees was quite interesting and sounded really good. But with changing everything you kind of created a new game which happens to have the same name as KF2. And as far as my testing goes, it is nothing like before. You now do not have dedicated mechanics to kill Zeds, not even in a combination. Some stuff just works (ganking everything down) and some stuff does not work (like having too little gunpower to kill the incoming Zeds in time).

Another bad example is the incap system. What is the use of a dedicated CC-mechanic like stumble e.g. when I do not know how to trigger it on point but just by "shooting" at a sc and then suddenly he stumbles. What does that give me exactly? When I do not know when it happens? And when he comes near and I need the stumble, well I cannot trigger it?!


It is hard to find the sweetspot between perks in aspects of balancing. It even is hard to design the game so that hoe is really challenging but not impossible. This all includes the clever use of game mechanics and training of skills that you can use to beat the game. It is satisfying when playing in a team an hours of a 10 wave hoe game....and also get in stressful situation int the higher waves....and then finally beat the boss. But it wouldn't be really nice if you just can go and beat hoe with little to no effort. I get that ofc.

But as q3.railgun already has stated and as far as me playing the game goes in the new beta update.....I'm sick of trying to imagine a way of how to make the gameplay satisfying again. I just can't imagine the update as it is right now is not worth of further playing it.
That is sad and hard to say, maybe even hard to hear for the devs or moderator if they care about their community. Maybe it is just me who has a hard time with the new game atm. I do not want to offend anyone by this opinion, it is just me saying what people I have spoken to and I personally think of the update right now. So I gonna take a break, try to find another game I want to play right now, cause KF2 was kind of my only game I played the last weeks and I was looking forward to playing it the next weeks too but well, you see how things suddenly can change in life.
Maybe it gets better, maybe it doesn't. We will have to wait and see when the update goes live and how about further changes turn out.

Until then.....I hope I see you ingame anytime soon. Hope dies last......
 

silverlighted

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 19, 2013
883
10
0
I was going to write something up but I ended up erasing the essay and just wanted to say that this beta is quite disappointing. We've really gone from KF1 which had it's weapon combinations to create combos to KF2 past which had weapon DPS + Afflictions to create combos to KF2 now where it's literally just spam M1 to death or play SS to stun and kill.

Sorry guys but I think I'm done, there just isn't enough consideration for how new introduced mechanics will affect other perks to the point where every new perk/mechanic is balanced around said perk/mechanic and says FU to everything else.

As what some other posters said, do please stick around or come back in a bit. Your presence in the community and feedback on the game is especially critical during this time (and this IS kind of a...beta inside of a beta after all). :p
 

neddie

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 13, 2016
141
0
0
I think we need to have these sorts of discussions around actual play, and the preview beta is the right place to have both. Tripwire is listening to our feedback and our bug reports, this is no time to bow out prematurely, q3.
 

Crips

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 14, 2015
31
2
0
After nearly 1000 hours of playing KF2 i must say that this whole beta update feels wrong. Playing this game right now is like playing an other game. Everything i learned so far is useless now. I can't even push back enemies anymore, a headshot isn't a headshot... I'm wondering what is next, maybe a different player skin like Rob Briar gives you 40% more armor but removes 30% damage, so you better pick Ana Larive who has a 15% higher speed bonus but could only carry 10 weight? So i want to play as commando, so i pick... how was that again, what???

Most of the stuff in the game was fine: nerf the zerk a bit here, give the support and demo a bit more power/impact there and change 1 or 2 skills in the different skill trees and fix the broken maps (forest, catacombs etc.).
 

EB0L4

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 4, 2016
88
0
0
Austria
I think we need to have these sorts of discussions around actual play, and the preview beta is the right place to have both. Tripwire is listening to our feedback and our bug reports, this is no time to bow out prematurely, q3.

I understand your concern but he did not bail out prematurely. The update needs no further discussion or testing. The perks work out fine with their changes. Problem are the basics (Damage-, Resistance-and Incap-system) that have changed and that to an extent that it is not clear how to reach a balanced state with those new mechanics.


greets
 

Dr Pepper

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 18, 2015
100
7
0
After nearly 1000 hours of playing KF2 i must say that this whole beta update feels wrong. Playing this game right now is like playing an other game. Everything i learned so far is useless now. I can't even push back enemies anymore, a headshot isn't a headshot...

This. I think that the resistance/incap system needs to be get rid of and the old simpler resistances should be brought back. Firebug is pretty much useless now and the only weapon worth using is the microwave gun which doesn't feel like a weapon a firebug should use. Crawlers having resistance to fire is just stupid and Husks taking 0 damage from fire, really? The 50% damage reduction was perfect the way it was.

Plus, lowering the Chalk and Trenchgun's weight to 5 but raising the MWG's weight to 10 is kind of pointless. FBs still won't be able to carry a med pistol if they use the MWG and Trenchgun.

I don't like the new perk menus, it's hard to see what ability you're using because the highlights are dark now. Please change that back and for god's sake please add the "select perk" button from KF1!

Also, please do an overhaul of the Support still tree. I don't understand why the Berserker needed an overhaul when it was fine just the way it was. By the way, the Zerk shouldn't be pushed back by trash zed because well... zerk.
 

DBShinigami

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 1, 2015
471
1
0
Plus, lowering the Chalk and Trenchgun's weight to 5 but raising the MWG's weight to 10 is kind of pointless. FBs still won't be able to carry a med pistol if they use the MWG and Trenchgun.

I think the MWG's weight was increased in order to "prevent" some combo like :
Pulv + MWG,
Scar + MWG.

Which would have made commando both good at dealing with trash zed and big zed.
 

johnsons

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 19, 2009
131
3
0
29
Ok,Now we have too stop thinking Zerk can tank SC and FP for us
Because he is in [S|h|i|t] now
He can't even protect his self
 
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DBShinigami

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 1, 2015
471
1
0
Ok,Now we have too stop thinking Zerk can tank

Thing is... No one can actually tank a FP which is raged.

You can not stumble, knockdown it and the block mitigation with your knife is so little now it's almost not even worth trying to block.