British election

[RedGuardist]

The whole point of going into politics is meant to be to serve your country

I wish it was like that. But politics is all about serving your interest group and your own belly. Not the country, or the general interest. Well, there is no such thing as general interest anyways. There never will be a situation, where everybodys interests will meet.

But sure, politicians could even try to make the "game" look like they actually care about something else, than just their own bellies and the game itself. But that is not going to happen.

 

[Shadrach]

I've been watching a lot of "The Thick of It" lately, after I discovered the fantastic "In the Loop". Malcolm Tucker is such a great character

YouTube - Malcolm Tucker - A Tribute to Brilliant Swearing

What I dont get is why the LibDems went into coalition with the Tories, I mean they are more left of center than conservative I would've thought?

 

[Psycho_Sam]

Interesting article here, I would actually quite like to see a 'Single Transferable Vote' introduced after having read about the various options. If we get a referendum that is.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8644480.stm

Its more a case of LibDems getting a referendum on the voting system and the Tories have the power to get it for them, Labour doesn't. Looks like David Cameron will be PM tomorrow.

 

[gautrek]

So I reckon that the Lib Dems, being the only party that even partly gives a toss about civil liberties, are quite right to maximise their position

Yes but that totaly ignores the fact that they came a very poor third and lost seats.Due to poorly thought out policies who hardly anyone wanted.yet they are trying to get them pushed through.
I am all for voting reform.But lets get a level playing field first.Starting with getting all the Scottish MP's out of parliament when we vote on England only issues, and if you think giving in to illegal immigrants as good thing then i glad they came a poor third.

Why have we had a Scottish PM for the last few years who has never been voted by anyone.

 

[Psycho_Sam]

Yes but that totaly ignores the fact that they came a very poor third and lost seats.Due to poorly thought out policies who hardly anyone wanted.yet they are trying to get them pushed through.
I am all for voting reform.But lets get a level playing field first.Starting with getting all the Scottish MP's out of parliament when we vote on England only issues, and if you think giving in to illegal immigrants as good thing then i glad they came a poor third.

Why have we had a Scottish PM for the last few years who has never been voted by anyone.

You say very poor third, they got 23% of the votes wheras Labour got 29%...

 

[Nestor Makhno]

Yes but that totaly ignores the fact that they came a very poor third and lost seats.Due to poorly thought out policies who hardly anyone wanted.yet they are trying to get them pushed through.
I am all for voting reform.But lets get a level playing field first.Starting with getting all the Scottish MP's out of parliament when we vote on England only issues, and if you think giving in to illegal immigrants as good thing then i glad they came a poor third.

Why have we had a Scottish PM for the last few years who has never been voted by anyone.

I was not aware that illegal immigrants were making any demands of the Lib Dems for them to give in to...

Exactly how are any party 'giving in' to them? and what do you mean my an illegal immigrant? Someone who snuck into the country? or someone whose status has not been decided yet? someone who doesn't read the Daily Mail? or someone whose food smells funny? some one who is 'taking our jobs'? Please define otherwise it just sounds like a kneejerk rant.

I do take the whole issue of immigration very seriously - mostly because my wife is an immigrant into this country. She is a database programmer working in genetic research - I do not think she is taking a job off your average BNP voter or Sun reader.

Most immigrants into the UK make a positive economic contribution in terms of taxes paid vs benefits drawn and generally they create new jobs - take a look at the unemployment figures versus immigration figures - if immigrants 'took jobs' then unemployment would presumably rise in line with immigration. It doesn't.

Find another argument - perhaps something about poofters, terrorists or paedos.... you know, one of the other 'bogeymen' that are used by the press to frighten children and dimwits. Fear is used by people with agendas - if you can't sell people on constructive policies or positive thinking, use fear - it's a trick as old as politics.

As it happens this... erm... what would you call them? 'asylum-seeker-lover' party are prolly going to be a coalition partner with the tories. Maybe British embassies will now start handing out 'indefinite leave to remain' visas in boxes of cornflakes . I am betting the whole deal will fall apart after 3 months of chaos. Then another election. And that one will prolly be even more wide open than this one.

On the subject of devolution.... I, for one, am not in a hurry to say goodbye to whatever revenue is still left under the North Sea.

Happy days :S

 

[dogbadger]

OK, the tory press are *****ing and whining about the 'only elected candidate' and they kind of have a point but, tbh, poshboy and his Eton claque are so incompetent that they can't even snatch victory out of the hands of a thoroughly discreditted Labour government. A few months of minority government would see them booted out anyway once they got in and dropped all this touchy-feely, 'Hey I have a friend who's working class...or is it black?' BS that Cameron doles out.

it's a failure for cameron and the tories.
If you can't get in after this lot's record, and with liberals losing seats as well, then clearly something has gone very worong.
Particularly when you are seen traditionally as the party of streamlined government and low spending (which most ppl would appreciate is what you need when your deficit is at unbelievable levels)

phaps he reminds ppl of Blair back in the day (the guy who helped elevate spin politics and mis-trust of MPs to the level it's at today)
And like you say, this fella went to the elite fee-paying school in britain.

Over the last 40 odd years the torys have put up leader candidates without particularly priveleged family backgrounds, usually who have passed through the grammer school system (non fee-paying but selective on the basis of an 'I.Q. style' exam taken age 11 and theoretically open to anyone from any background)
Now this wont sway hardcore labour voters but it has gone someway to broaden tory appeal - suggesting working class ppl can vote tory, and can aspire to the wealth with which the party is associated.
However by reverting to such a posh and 'slick' leader they may have further distanced themselves from the vast majority of the electorate.

I do take the whole issue of immigration very seriously - mostly because my wife is an immigrant into this country. She is a database programmer working in genetic research - I do not think she is taking a job off your average BNP voter or Sun reader.

Yeah my wife is foreign as well, and I deeply resent the suggestion that immigrants come here and steal British jobs.
She sits on her arse all day doing bugger-all.

 

[Shadrach]

Yeah my wife is foreign as well, and I deeply resent the suggestion that immigrants come here and steal British jobs.
She sits on her arse all day doing bugger-all.

lol

 

[gautrek]

I was not aware that illegal immigrants were making any demands of the Lib Dems for them to give in to...

Exactly how are any party 'giving in' to them? and what do you mean my an illegal immigrant? Someone who snuck into the country? or someone whose status has not been decided yet? someone who doesn't read the Daily Mail? or someone whose food smells funny? some one who is 'taking our jobs'? Please define otherwise it just sounds like a kneejerk rant.

I do take the whole issue of immigration very seriously - mostly because my wife is an immigrant into this country. She is a database programmer working in genetic research - I do not think she is taking a job off your average BNP voter or Sun reader.

Most immigrants into the UK make a positive economic contribution in terms of taxes paid vs benefits drawn and generally they create new jobs - take a look at the unemployment figures versus immigration figures - if immigrants 'took jobs' then unemployment would presumably rise in line with immigration. It doesn't.

Find another argument - perhaps something about poofters, terrorists or paedos.... you know, one of the other 'bogeymen' that are used by the press to frighten children and dimwits. Fear is used by people with agendas - if you can't sell people on constructive policies or positive thinking, use fear - it's a trick as old as politics.

As it happens this... erm... what would you call them? 'asylum-seeker-lover' party are prolly going to be a coalition partner with the tories. Maybe British embassies will now start handing out 'indefinite leave to remain' visas in boxes of cornflakes . I am betting the whole deal will fall apart after 3 months of chaos. Then another election. And that one will prolly be even more wide open than this one.

On the subject of devolution.... I, for one, am not in a hurry to say goodbye to whatever revenue is still left under the North Sea.

Happy days :S

Oh lets see i bet you agreed with Gordon when he called that woman a bigot as well didn't you.

One of the libs main policies was to say we will give an amnesty to any illegals immigrants(for the hard of thinking that means people who shouldn't be here) who have been here for X years.So as i said caving in to them.If someone is an illegal then as soon as they are caught they should be kicked out.End of argument.
If they are asylum seekers then fair enough if they are fleeing persecution.But they need sorting out quickly.either they can stay or they get sent home.
But when you hear that the Afghan hijackers from a few years ago are still here after being released from jail because its not safe to go home then it begger belief.ditto that evil Soamali who shot that woman copper dead in cold blood.
oh we can't let him go home as its not safe.
What a f***ing joke.

My attitude is that it should be like Australia and other switched on countries.If you want to emigrate to here then you need to prove you have the means/have a job to go to/have no major health issues.In fact you would need to earn enough points to be able to come.

Well good for you mate but then my father in law was(he is dead now) a Pole who fled communism after the war and in fact was in the Warsaw uprising and was placed in Auschwitz after he was captured.
So your point about your wife being an Immigrant is?
Oh and he held down a top job at the old British Shoe company for years.
So your point is?

Stop having a knee jerk reaction to any discussion on this subject.If you have massive unemployment then letting more and more people in is plain wrong.We had a massive influx from the West Indies and other places in the 60's as we had jobs that needed filling but thats not the case now.
the country is full.

 

[gautrek]

You say very poor third, they got 23% of the votes wheras Labour got 29%...

Yes and both parties did worse than was expected by losing seats.
So that means that only 23% of the country wanted their polices.So why are the holding the majority to ransom?
They lost and thats an end of it.

 

[Peter.Steele]

One of the libs main policies was to say we will give an amnesty to any illegals immigrants(for the hard of thinking that means people who shouldn't be here) who have been here for X years.So as i said caving in to them.If someone is an illegal then as soon as they are caught they should be kicked out.End of argument.

So, what you're saying is, it's not so much an issue of someone needing to prove that they didn't immigrate illegally X years ago so that they can stay ... they need to prove that they DID in fact commit that by-definition criminal activity at X time, so that they can stay?

 

[Psycho_Sam]

Yes and both parties did worse than was expected by losing seats.
So that means that only 23% of the country wanted their polices.So why are the holding the majority to ransom?
They lost and thats an end of it.

Your blaming their "bad policies" yet their vote actually went up 1% from the last election. I agree not as much as they had hoped but they mainly lost seats to the tories.

Anyway they are in a coalition government now so they have a big say in things wether you like it or not.


Your "the country is full" comment amuses me. Is it based on any evidence/statisics? Or is just your personal opinion because you are sick of seeing "bloody foreigners" about the place and thats what the tabloids have been telling you alongside pictures of women with their kit off.

 

[Psycho_Sam]

PS: Vince Cable for chancellor, unless you want George Osborne?

 

[Shadrach]

Sorry to spam but this is relevant I think:

YouTube - Dan Bull - Changes [an open letter to David Cameron]

Dear David,

So you're taking the reins from Labour - just don't handle them with force, or Lady Britannia could fall from her horse. Not all of us are sure whether you're the right fellow to weather us to port in this storm; although I'm sure that when Gordon was brought in we'd have been better off trying to talk to a wall.

You wanted to be seen as the man down the street - now you're the man in Downing Street. I'm not asking you to live in a glass house but we'd be glad to see a bit of transparency. Thatcher's been and smashed the glass roof, but now you've got a grass roof - the thatcher's been. You better watch it doesn't catch a beam from the grassroots camera's gleam because the heat's on. These days when a scandal's seen it's like there's no smoke without fire, matches please. People are fed up and hate being treated as second rate - they're ready to see a head on a plate. That's not me by the way, we'd get on as mates, but I'm just saying be ready to take it.

That's just the way that it is. That's just the way it is. Things'll never be the same. That's just the way it is. Yep.

I see no changes, all I see is eighties faces made up with a public relations facelift. And when Cameron's on camera he makes it easy to see his patriot's bracelet. Can you blame our aversion to another Tony Blair: version two? You're the person who's serving us so we deserve a dude we can trust, but you Tories talk about big society - I thought there was no such thing as society. Thatcher's plans for taxes stank, so let's not go back to that; but right now, the bankers are laughing right back to the bank and it's tragic.

MPs need to stop spending expenses on mending expensive fences, it's offensive to the senses. When it comes down to cash incentives, it's senseless how you splash out. But the comments about class are comments without class, there's not a doubt about that. People who need heating don't give a bleep whether you've been to Eton - they just want you keep them from freezing. In the bleakest seasons it seems to me that we're being cheated. When we see the sleaze who do we believe in? You need to rethink your reasons.

See, we need a leader, not a devious speaker eager to keep secrets beneath a veneer. Keeping people in fear for your career isn't the reason you're here. I need to to be clear: we want someone that'll live up to his promises, not rhetorical oratory delivered from his orifice. I know it's difficult in politics to run an honest ship, there's a lot of bollocks and a lot of spin. To be honest it's an honour list of onanists more bothered with their image than the problems of the populace, but I promise this: if you stop grinning and make it your mission to take criticism on the chin, you'll have the confidences of a lot who think that we're on the brink of an apocalypse.

Let's stay positive. That's just the way it is. It can't be that bad. Things'll never be the same. It probably can be that bad, but that's just the way it is. That's just the way it is.

Ed: stupid IE6 embedding bug...[/URL]

 

[Jono]

Absolute gold Shadrach

Also, instead of getting involved in the debate, I'll just say that Nestor makes all the good points IMO

 

[Nestor Makhno]

Oh lets see i bet you agreed with Gordon when he called that woman a bigot as well didn't you.

Yes I absolutely agree with GB when he called that woman a bigot. His mistake was not telling her to her face. He should've had the courage of his convictions as a long-time anti-racism campaigner.

The country is NOT full. There are a tiny minority of immigrants who came in illegally who have committed crimes... the vast majority get on with making a living, not bleating about losing their position at the bottom of the heap or looking for scapegoats for their own inadequacies and frustrations.

I live in Croydon - which is where Lunar house is located - so pretty much every immigrant, legal or otherwise, at some point comes through here and I see that lot of them are traumatised by where they have been and full of hope about where they are coming to.

Do you think the US would be great if, once all the native American nations had been effectively slaughtered, they said - that's it...we're full... WASPs only through Ellis Island from now on?

If immigrants came illegally 12 years ago and have since paid loads of tax and stuff then tbh it probably does make make more sense to say 'feck it, let them stay' than it does spending a gazillion quid organising a witch-hunt. Certainly I would not let a policy be informed by hysterical headlines in the Sun and Mail. Tomorrow's chipwrap indeed.

I have always been pretty opposed to prejudice and intolerance, even if I do take the p*** out of Scots, hopefully they can see I am joking. And, as I have been lucky enough to travel to a lot of countries in the world, I have come to realise that people are just people whatever their colour, religion, creed. I have seen nothing to change my view that the vast majority of people are essentially decent, albeit in tough circumstances occasionally.

The two things that I really hate are intolerance and prejudice. And I particularly hate intolerance and prejudice being fomented to further political or commercial ambition. I see Britain sinking into a mire, not of multi-culturalism - my view is that that makes us stronger - but a mire of prejudice, small-mindedness and petty hatred; 'Children of Men' seems even more prescient when you consider it in that light. I am also reminded of the song by Billy Bragg... "What do they know of England, who only England know?"

Conservatives have always represented intolerance in my book (take a look at some of the gems that we got under Thatcher - Clause 28, NRB etc etc.) and Labour started to as well once they became spin addicts under the Noo Labour flag.

Lib Dems are a weak party with no firm line but, if they act as a handbrake on the worst excesses of the tories, then that's OK with me.

*edit* seems they bottled it on immigration but at least Vince Cable got a decent post - he is clearly the only bugger in the UK capable of dealing with the financial sh*te we are in.

 

[Reddog]

Australian election is coming up soon, we have two real choices;

1. Fiscally irresponsible, flip flopping nitwit who has basically abandoned his climate change plan completely, wasted a lot of money on schemes and incentives which fell through, and done a turn about on most of the ideas he won the election based on. Driving completely repressive policies, like internet censorship.

2. Fundamentalist christian nutball who is more interested in walking around in speedos for the camera than coming up with real policy. The kind of sleaze who effectively blocked the governments proposed climate change scheme and then criticised them for dropping it. Has no real policies for anything, except seemingly recycling the ideas of previous lib governments and denying we have any impact on the environment at all. Oh and he obviously agrees with censoring the internet as well (it's a hot issue for me personally).

Oh I could vote for a minor party but it will go to one of these two schmucks as a preference anyway. I think I'll vote with my feet and fly to the moon, I have a better chance of that happening than constructive happening in the political scene

 

[Fedorov]

sounds like awesome

 

[Mahnsikir]

Well at least stuff can start, hopefully, moving on now.

Oh and we had a scary few minutes yesterday when Harriet Harman was effectively in charge

EDIT: Good luck with that one Reddog

 

[fiftyone]

Gawd save teh Queen.
I think I'd better move to France...