Body Armor for Soviet Engineers (Cosmetic Hero Unlock)

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Unus Offa Unus Nex

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 21, 2010
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Those "internetz" are based on something you know. Germans did use armor in WW1, it weighted 12-18kg, Harder? Maybe. Heavier? Definetly. They had no such armor in Stalingrad btw. Steel core was considered AP ammo, owright.

p.s. How many troops were issued steel core ammo? How much of that ammo was sub-standart? And dont tell me your fairy tales of everything being top quality.
p.p.s. NKVD wouldnt allow serial production of SN-42 if it was ineffective and these guys knew more about war that you could ever know.
p.p.p.s. Dont trust fanbois, especially the unus one.

You really have no clue what you're talking about, and it doesn't help that you can't understand what others are saying either. It's like talking to a door. It's often refered to as the teenage syndrom, so don't worry you'll get over it.

Repetition: The 9mm m.E. ammunition would penetrate 2mm of steel test plate, which was atleast 100 BHN harder than the SN42 breast plates. (It has nothing to do with WW1 German breast plates, which came up because of a reading comprehension problem on your part) In effect the 9mm m.E. ammunition would likely penetrate 3mm of the type of steel used to manufacture the SN42.

Oh, and m.E. ammunition was std. issue by 1942. And regarding quality, don't talk of something you know nothing about, you'll just end up losing face infront of everyone, which is rather silly. Keep in mind that I own and sell the types of ammunition we're talking about in this thread, while you just read about it on the internet, remember that.

Anyway I'm not going to start an argument with you again, as an adult that would be rather silly of me.

You may continue with your name calling from here'on if you wish, but you will get no further reply.
 
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Vesper11

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 19, 2011
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You really have no clue what you're talking about, and it doesn't help that you can't understand what others are saying either. It's like talking to a door. It's often refered to as the teenage syndrom, so don't worry you'll get over it.

Repetition: The 9mm m.E. ammunition would penetrate 2mm of steel test plate, which was atleast 100 BHN harder than the SN42 breast plates. (It has nothing to do with WW1 German breast plates, which came up because of a reading comprehension problem on your part) In effect the 9mm m.E. ammunition would likely penetrate 3mm of the type of steel used to manufacture the SN42.

Oh, and m.E. ammunition was std. issue by 1942. And regarding quality, don't talk of something you know nothing about, you'll just end up losing face infront of everyone, which is rather silly. Keep in mind that I own and sell the types of ammunition we're talking about in this thread, while you just read about it on the internet, remember that.

Anyway I'm not going to start an argument with you again, as an adult that would be rather silly of me.

You may continue with your name calling from here'on if you wish, but you will get no further reply.
You are pretty immature adult you know, focusing more on insulting/being smug/etc than doing anything else. Pretending not to notice facts, talking only about something that will benefit you ignoring anything else, its typical behavior for a troll or a fanboi.

If it was facts and history you were talking about you would've took into account that a lot of sources say that SN-42 stopped SMG bullets at 100m, that included MP-40, if its standart ammunition was SO effective then why did soviets use SN-42?


edit: I thought about but, sorry, no, not going to delete it. Unus attitude stinks worse than a public toilet. He might seem normal to you but I dont like him. But I'll stick to the topic, its not like I care about fa... very biased and stubborn people.
 
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DiedTrying

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 17, 2011
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USA Prime Credit
You are pretty immature adult you know, focusing more on insulting/being smug/etc than doing anything else. Pretending not to notice facts, talking only about something that will benefit you ignoring anything else, its typical behavior for a troll or a fanboi.

If it was facts and history you were talking about you would've took into account that a lot of sources say that SN-42 stopped SMG bullets at 100m, that included MP-40, if its standart ammunition was SO effective then why did soviets use SN-42?

The highlighted part in bold was completely unnecessary. Nothing Unus posted in this thread led me to think of him as being insulting or smug towards you. He pointed out that you took info from websites, while he has first hand knowledge. If anyone is trolling it's you, especially considering the bolded paragraph where you are clearly baiting him.

You would have done yourself a favor by just sticking to the 2nd paragraph where you actually attempted to discuss the topic.

If you delete your first paragraph, I'll gladly delete this post.
 
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RedGuardist

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 14, 2006
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If it was facts and history you were talking about you would've took into account that a lot of sources say that SN-42 stopped SMG bullets at 100m, that included MP-40, if its standart ammunition was SO effective then why did soviets use SN-42?

If those plates would have been that effective, everybody would have used them. Soviets noticed already in the Winter War (SN-38 and SN-39 saw combat), that those plates are not very usefull at all. For a reason it is hard for me to understand, they did not do the right thing and scrap the idea but developed it further without any really usefull result.

Yes, SN-42s were used, but mainly by combat engineers to protect from fragments and melee weapons in CQC. When you think that it could stop SMG round on range above 100 metres, it really says it all. In combat - especially in urban combat - the range of engagement was not above 100 metres but way less. Most of the infantry combat in general happened on range where the SN-42 could not provide any protection at all.
 
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beh0lder

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 10, 2011
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That version of body armor is based off of and very similar to Italian body armor from World War 1 used by arditi d'assalto troops during the battles of Altipiano d' Asiago. These were the Italian assault troops used to storm trenches and it was thought that it would help them in close quarter combat, needless to say in every assault they took 100% casualties. The pictures of Soviets using that body armor look like reserve troops stationed around Moscow in their spiffy new uniforms. The second picture of the guy behind the brick wall taking cover is a staged propaganda picture, there are lots of them out there. If that was in the heat of battle the photographer would not be standing in the open to take a picture. I don't think any frontline soldiers would ever willingly use them for anything think but explosives ordinance and minefield detail. Take a look at actual Russian front line troops and you can see a big difference in just how worn they look, not to mention how bad those plates would rust in the winter. Many armies in WW1 experimented with body armor and found it to be quite useless and cumbersome, the Russians were just starting to experiment with this in ww2. If they actually worked the Germans and Italians would have been using them.
 

Pprkut

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 14, 2011
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Moscow
The pictures of Soviets using that body armor look like reserve troops stationed around Moscow in their spiffy new uniforms. The second picture of the guy behind the brick wall taking cover is a staged propaganda picture, there are lots of them out there.

47,000 pieces only for pictures? Boy, it's must be world's expensive photomob.
 
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Unus Offa Unus Nex

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 21, 2010
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It is highly likely that SN42 breast plates would stop the regular lead cored 9mm P.08 bullets at 100 meters, which in early 42 still made up approx. 60% of all the 9mm ammunition distributed. So that would in part explain some of the early Russian findings.

The SN42 would however not stop the 9mm steel cored m.E. ammunition even at 100 m, and considering how numerous m.E. ammunition became starting in early 1942 (~40%), esp. for SMG's, the use of the SN42 body armour was quite pointless - esp. considering the average distances at which SMG fire was exchanged
 

[Mad_Murdock]

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 28, 2006
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Hmmmm, doesnt look like it would be terribly effective in urban combat, going off of some of unus' data, and due to the very short ranges and multiple engagement angles.

Im pretty sure it was definitely useful for demo or minefield duty though, as well as morale. But since we dont really have any of these things ingame, i say just make it cosmetic for hero engineers. It would look cool and add variety, without affecting gameplay.
 

Unus Offa Unus Nex

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 21, 2010
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Hmmmm, doesnt look like it would be terribly effective in urban combat, going off of some of unus' data, and due to the very short ranges and multiple engagement angles.

Well, to put it bluntly, in a CQC situation it was completely useless, which is also why production stopped so abruptly. Initially it looked promising against lead cored pistol ammunition, and that at rather long range (100 to 125 m), but as soon as steel cored ammunition became normal it was more of a hazard to wear than a means of protection, only serving to weigh the wearer down and reduce his agility.

The Germans, British & Americans had learned this the hard way during WW1, the Russians had to wait until WW2 to recieve the same lesson.

Im pretty sure it was definitely useful for demo or minefield duty though, as well as morale. But since we dont really have any of these things ingame, i say just make it cosmetic for hero engineers. It would look cool and add variety, without affecting gameplay.

I wouldn't mind if it actually protected the wearer abit, making him abit less vulnerable to grenade explosions for example.
 

[Mad_Murdock]

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 28, 2006
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Initially it looked promising against lead cored pistol ammunition, and that at rather long range (100 to 125 m), but as soon as steel cored ammunition became normal it was more of a hazard to wear than a means of protection, only serving to weigh the wearer down and reduce his agility.

Sounds about right.

I wouldn't mind if it actually protected the wearer abit, making him abit less vulnerable to grenade explosions for example.

I like this idea, but I can see a lot of whining if it is implemented.

some 20 Million Soviets cycled through the Red Army during the war.

Not quite sure where you're going with this.
 
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beh0lder

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 10, 2011
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As in you had a better chance witnessing a cavalry charge than you did a piece of that body armor if only 40k were produced.

edit: I also wouldn't be surprised if they told the poor suckers who were unfortunate enough to receive this medieval style armor that it would protect them against bullets just for a morale boost. The common russian soldier seeing a comrade walking around with this prob thought, oh! Fritz will be ****ting their pants now! The only clear advantage that armor gave the russians is what you see in those pictures, the smiles on their faces.
 
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beh0lder

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 10, 2011
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MKB

and the armor would only be for the engineers, which is like 2 per map. And only for those who unlocked it. And nobody upgrades the engineer, so you'd be lucky to see the armor.

Yeah the Germans having the MKB in Stalingrad is really silly I couldn't agree more. But the AVT-40 was also not put into production till 1943 so it's just as farby.
 
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Jippofin

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 15, 2011
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Yes, SN-42s were used, but mainly by combat engineers to protect from fragments and melee weapons in CQC.

Since you are playing FPS you tend to concentrate on the "shooter" part of it and forget that really few soldiers actually died because they were shot.

If you think such an armor was useless, why did every soldier have a helmet? They don't stop bullets either: a lead core 9x19 will zip through a ww2 helmet.

Shrapnel was the real killer. Such an armor does protect quite well from shrapnel. In addition the protection from melee attack is pretty nice bonus in close combat. Just like in WW1 the armor was useful in CQB which was fought not only with firearms, but bayonets, knifes, clubs and stones.
 

RedGuardist

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 14, 2006
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But the AVT-40 was also not put into production till 1943 so it's just as farby.


Are you sure?

http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/RIFLES4.htm

jaegerplatoon.net said:
AVT-40 automatic rifle was accepted to manufacturing in May of 1942 and the first weapons came out of production line already in July of the same year. The reason allowing advance as fast as this was rather simple - the changes required for making SVT-40 select-fire automatic were only minor. Only real changes happened in trigger mechanism. While in SVT-40 the safety switch had only two settings - (semi auto) fire and safe, in AVT-40 the switch had also full auto setting for automatic fire. However, likely AVT-40 were used mostly in semi auto mode, as full automatic fire was quite difficult to control and durability proved to be an issue. All the reliability issues of SVT-40 were still included to the design and now the automatic fire caused additional problems. The main visual difference between SVT-40 and AVT-40 is in their muzzle brakes. Muzzle brake of AVT-40 has only 4 large vents - 2 in each side. In addition new stronger stock version was manufactured for AVT-40. Sometimes AVT-40 muzzle brakes and/or AVT-40 stocks can be found in SVT-40 rifles, but these might be results of later repairs and arsenal refurb work. The Soviets stopped manufacturing of AVT-40 in summer of 1943.
 

Grabbed_by_the_Spetsnaz

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 29, 2011
770
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New Zealand
Come on guys it only a cosmetic upgrade, it even says this on the forums.
I for one would love to see the "hero" looks for the engineer. Stop overcomplicating things and just appreciate a little bit of variety ;)