Body Armor for Soviet Engineers (Cosmetic Hero Unlock)

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LordKhaine

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 19, 2005
1,008
120
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UK
I'd rather it were a map specific thing, and not linked to unlocks. But then I feel that way about everything ;)

It would be interesting to have as actual armour though. With the new weight system, and SMG's actually being effective at 100 metre ranges it would have some use. Though I fear with the weight of all the satchels and AT nades the engineer already carries, he'd be painfully slow and short on stamina.

Now what we need more for engineers is more demolition points on maps, and a realistically modelled flamethrower ;)
 

Unus Offa Unus Nex

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 21, 2010
1,809
525
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It's not jus the weight ... imagine yourself wearing that rigid metal armor on your chest and all your other equipement ... your movements will be for sure very limited for sure .Also s someone noticed it's just the weight of one part of the armor , not the full armor .

Actually engineers are slow guys due to the weight system and his equipement , imagine with pieces of plate armor ...

Yeah, the Russians hadn't quite catched up with the rest in this area, and as such had to learn by mistake in WW2 instead.

German soldiers with body armour in WW1:

german-body-armour.jpg
 

Pprkut

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 14, 2011
86
54
0
Moscow
It's not jus the weight ... imagine yourself wearing that rigid metal armor on your chest and all your other equipement ... your movements will be for sure very limited for sure
No doubt and I have to agree about limited on movements, but it's wont immobilize you and "forget about run" sound kinda ultimate in my view.

That's the weight of each piece of plate mate, not the whole thing.

There's a reason the thing was deemed impractical and no other nation issued this kind of stuff. The Germana saw how useless these things were in WW1, and theirs were even thicker.

I never saw mention in any source, what it's only a weight of each piece.
Where do you get it?
I saw SN-42 last Saturday in museum and it's doesn't looks heavier then that, to me.


Offtopic: how does Germans during WW1 use their armor? I'm pretty sure, soldier just sitting in the trenches firing each other with old-school-long-barrel-rifles and MGs. Not surprise that they proved useless.

And speaking of armor piercing.
Again, as I saw in many many sources, lead core 9mm couldn't pierce SN from 10 to 25 m, not 100.
Steel core 9mm Р.08 m.E may penetrate it from that distance, yes.
Ok, maybe "pierce/not pierce" sound kinda childish, let's use "were effective". :p
 
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sturmfuhrer

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 4, 2010
251
170
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I dont know whether it has been mentioned yet, but wasnt the armour designed to protect the wearer from shrapnel and blast fragments i.e when de-mining or when knocking out emplacements - not to protect him from bullets. In my opinion due to the infantry-oritented RO2 gameplay, what with few things to actual explode (i.e doors, walls e.t.c) body armour would be pretty much pointless in the Ro2's scenario.


Sturm.
 

Unus Offa Unus Nex

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 21, 2010
1,809
525
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I never saw mention in any source, what it's only a weight of each piece. Where do you get it?
I saw SN-42 last Saturday in museum and it's doesn't looks heavier then that, to me.

It's three large 2mm thick plates of steel IIRC, so it should weigh more than 3.5 kg all together.

Offtopic: how does Germans during WW1 use their armor? I'm pretty sure, soldier just sitting in the trenches firing each other with old-school-long-barrel-rifles and MGs. Not surprise that they proved useless.

Not quite. The Germans used body armour during WW1 for their stormtroopers, i.e. assault infantry, the guys who would storm the enemy trenches and clear them out with some of the first SMG's ever used in combat (MP18).

The British started trophy hunting for these suits of armour to wear themselves, however they soon found out that unless the guy shooting at you was using a pistol or SMG, it was of little use, rifle rounds cut straight through them both sides.

And speaking of armor piercing.
Again, as I saw in many many sources, lead core 9mm couldn't pierce SN from 10 to 25 m, not 100.
Steel core 9mm Р.08 m.E may penetrate it from that distance, yes.
Ok, maybe "pierce/not pierce" sound kinda childish, let's use "were effective". :p

The lead core 9mm bullet might very well have been unable to pierce the 2mm steel plate, but by 1942 onwards the P.08 m.E had long been standardized and it would penetrate 2mm of steel at 100 meters. The P.08 m.E flew quite abit faster than the regular P.08 patrone as-well, up to some 425 m/s through the MP40.
 
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Justin MacDuro

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 1, 2006
210
37
0
I will not have any problem if someday that thing is implemented into game , but it should be as it was , in fact that thing should have some utility since now we have those neews enviroments were you can blow a lot of things . Sure in the future we will see some kind of "blow that thing" map as there are in DOD .
 

[Mad_Murdock]

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 28, 2006
604
44
0
the soviets didn't actually use them in combat, they staged those pictures.

Ya i wanna see some sources too before you go slinging that around.

As for the whole armor idea:

If it works, it would be kinda cool to see, even if it is only effective at 100+ meters, it would help against the MP40 sniping. Though I can see a lot of whining happening.

If it is cosmetic, then hell yeah, lets throw some variety in there.
 

Pprkut

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 14, 2011
86
54
0
Moscow
I don't know which else sources two of you guys wants, real usage is pretty obvious. Just google it.

the soviets didn't actually use them in combat, they staged those pictures.

Yes, and Hitler was killed in Omaha beach.
I saw it in the movie.
 
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Derpus

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 16, 2011
535
126
0
I don't think it's worth it, because it would likely be more than "just cosmetic" in reality and doing that would be a bit of a disadvantage. This game seems to be leaning less against historical advantages and tries to balance a bit (but I prefer unbalanced aspects due to historical facts). I'd rather not see it at all if it doesn't do what it's intended. Just as well, I'm sure this would slow a player down at least a little bit, but if it's only cosmetic it wouldn't which would also look sort of silly.

Make it do what it would in reality and put it in the game as a Russian Engineer Hero unlock and I won't mind.
 
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Unus Offa Unus Nex

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 21, 2010
1,809
525
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Make it do what it would in reality and put it in the game as a Russian Engineer Hero unlock and I won't mind.

Could be fun to see it in there, I agree, but if chosen to be worn it will need to reduce the running speed of the player, and it will only be effective against pistols and SMGs past 100 m.
 

Westernesse

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 11, 2011
406
68
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Great idea and wouldn't be too game inbalancing since currently engineers are only selectable in 4/10 maps. It takes forever to rank up my engi.
 

Vesper11

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 19, 2011
201
68
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Unus Offa Unus Nex

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 21, 2010
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Sorry to disappoint but:

1) There's a big difference between steel test plates and the steel used on the SN42. German steel testing plates were much more durable than the SN42 steel breast plates and harder by atleast a 100 BHN difference.

2) Steel core 08 m.E. rounds will penetrate 2mm of high quality steel at 100 m, which would probably equate to 3mm of the steel used on SN42.

Source: 'WWII Ballistics: Armor and Gunnery' by Lorrin R. Bird & Robert D. Livingston, not "the internetz".
 

Vesper11

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 19, 2011
201
68
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Sorry to disappoint but:

1) There's a big difference between steel test plates and the steel used on the SN42. German steel testing plates were much more durable than the SN42 steel breast plates and harder by atleast a 100 BHN difference.

2) Steel core 08 m.E. rounds will penetrate 2mm of high quality steel at 100 m, which would probably equate to 3mm of the steel used on SN42.

Source: 'WWII Ballistics: Armor and Gunnery' by Lorrin R. Bird & Robert D. Livingston, not "the internetz".
Those "internetz" are based on something you know. Germans did use armor in WW1, it weighted 12-18kg, Harder? Maybe. Heavier? Definetly. They had no such armor in Stalingrad btw. Steel core was considered AP ammo, owright.

p.s. How many troops were issued steel core ammo? How much of that ammo was sub-standart? And dont tell me your fairy tales of everything being top quality.
p.p.s. NKVD wouldnt allow serial production of SN-42 if it was ineffective and these guys knew more about war that you could ever know.
p.p.p.s. Dont trust fanbois, especially the unus one.
 
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Bluehawk

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 13, 2006
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Hamilton, ON
The NKVD had nothing to do with arms production or the approval of new designs, that was handled internally by the Red Army, but the decision often came straight from Stalin, especially when multiple factions couldn't agree on whether or not to develop something.
 

Vesper11

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 19, 2011
201
68
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The NKVD had nothing to do with arms production or the approval of new designs, that was handled internally by the Red Army, but the decision often came straight from Stalin, especially when multiple factions couldn't agree on whether or not to develop something.
My mistake then, mistook it with Stavka/Stalin, the final decision was his and he wasnt a man who'd put something into mass production if it didnt give major advantage. (Actually, this is might be the reason why soviets had so little prototypes. Soviet engineers were to busy impoving design or simplifing it to increase production to try to develop something completely new, unless required. Every weapon developed used a lot of parts from old weapons so it wouldnt slow down production.)

edit: Actually the fact that SN-42 entered mass production and was present in Stalingrad is more than enough to include it in the game. Its waaaay more reasonable than Mkb42. I'd even say its a must, even if limited to hero engineers and assault (on maps where engineers are not present). And its not like it protected against any weapon, SMGs and pistols only, and with Mkbs and G41s present on some of axis troops, and considering the weight of SN-42, I dont think it'll stand out too much. Also if injury system is to be revised, arm and leg shots (if not headshots) will give some time to MP-40 wielding soldier to finish the enemy off.

p.s. If it was completely ineffective below 100m I dont think soviet engineers would use it as it would only slow them (and the rest of the troops waiting for them to make a breach) down.
 
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hanky

Active member
Aug 1, 2011
340
121
43
Well if its not just cosmetic, you should get knocked down when you get shot at 50+ meters.