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Big servers are a BIG mistake

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#181
Keystone said:
And where are those 32 servers with custom maps like it were so many before update? The onliest is BOH server now but there aren't interesting custom maps so much. Except for BOH, there isn't ANY server!


Before update of 50 servers there weren't any people complaining about too less smg beacuse they searched exactly like this, some finally realistic game, but now after update is everything busted. People just liked that limits of smg and many people already left RO beacuse of that big mistake of big servers.
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Explain to me how this is TWI's fault exactly.
 
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#182
Solo4114 said:
Explain to me how this is TWI's fault exactly.
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They just changed completely RO to more arcade gamy by adding those big servers and beacuse of that people who wanted real ww2 battle don't have where to play now. All good custom servers has been changed to 40-50 slots and now there are only a little servers with standart maps. Many people beacuse of that already left RO, in the morning I almost don't see any full server. Before update it never happend.
 
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#183
Keystone said:
And where are those 32 servers with custom maps like it were so many before update? The onliest is BOH server now but there aren't interesting custom maps so much. Except for BOH, there isn't ANY server!


Before update of 50 servers there weren't any people complaining about too less smg beacuse they searched exactly like this, some finally realistic game, but now after update is everything busted. People just liked that limits of smg and many people already left RO beacuse of that big mistake of big servers.
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What maps are run on the servers are up to the individual server admins. If you are not happy with the current set of servers and what maps they run maybe you ought to get a server of your own that way you can run it how you want it that is always an option you know.

I know that before the update I hated it when I would join a map and all I had to choose from was the bolt and I was not the only one that felt this way. But that aside the weapon roles were scaled using a formula for all the roles except for the bolt which was left as unlimited. Everything is not busted Once again the 32 player experience you had before the update is still there in fact most of the servers are in fact 32 player or less.

Sabu
 
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#184
That bolt action what you are calling was real and the most often infantry battle in ww2. If it was realistic, on maps like Basovka there should be only 1 smg in axis side, but there is as many as 5 smg. It was very easy to find it from dead soldier.
This game was suppose to be realistic and if you think that people annoyed that limits of smg so they would long time ago don't play anymore and left RO. I don't understand it!! There is already call of duty which is an arcade game exactly for people like you (no offence), who don't like being forcing to choose rifle. Why TWI changed RO to the same crap like that unrealistic call of duty.
And yes there are still 32 servers but as I already said, all good 32 servers with custom maps who people so much enjoyed disappeared.
 
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#185
If you don't think people picked up any weapon they found that they felt better suited the situation or was something they preferred you are wrong. It was a very regular occurrence.

What you need to realize is there is a balance between realistic and fun here. If you want a straight up realistic simm (Which will probably never be really realistic btw) That is not something you will probably find in a video game. All video games no matter how realistic they claim to be have issues that make them unrealistic in some regard. either because you are interacting with the world using a controller or keyboard and mouse or because you are not running with a weapon firing at other people and killing them. So would I say RO is 100% realistic? No I would not.

I'm sorry you don't like the servers that are out there, once again maybe you ought to get a server of your own so you can have things the way you like, Or get with others that are of the same opinion and set up a "really realistic" server. Heres a suggestion you can take maps and make it impossible for one team to win at all, cause you know that would be realistic based off of specific battles. Probably not fun for the losing team but you don't seem to care about that at all so shouldn't be a problem for you. RO has not been changed to be anything like Call of duty.


Sabu
 
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#186
[RO]Sabu said:
If you don't think people picked up any weapon they found that they felt better suited the situation or was something they preferred you are wrong. It was a very regular occurrence.
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Any proofs? So tell me why nobody was complaining before about those smg limits. And why in some daytimes now there are so less servers preoccupied and almost none is full (it never happend before).

[RO]Sabu said:
What you need to realize is there is a balance between realistic and fun here. If you want a straight up realistic simm (Which will probably never be really realistic btw) That is not something you will probably find in a video game. All video games no matter how realistic they claim to be have issues that make them unrealistic in some regard. either because you are interacting with the world using a controller or keyboard and mouse or because you are not running with a weapon firing at other people and killing them. So would I say RO is 100% realistic? No I would not.
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Limits of smg is irrelevant to having fun. Both sides have the same limits so battle is balanced and interesting. It's not like with tank battles where some side can don't have so much chances with their worse tanks. In infantry battle, rifles in both sides have the same abilities, maybe smg is a little different but not so much. I don't know why you are now saying that realism in video game isn't possible, I don't want now some perfect realism, that's not what I mean. I'm talking right now about only limits of smg, which was before update and was everything fine. Real infantry team loadouts doesn't interfere to game play. I don't know what you see cool with that another call of duty game style but I just see stupid senseless rushing everywhere with smg.
 
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#187
What you do not seem to understand is that there are many many more 32 player servers out there than there are of the 50 player, and if that is the game play you like you should stick with it. You are wrong about people not complaining before the update I am not going to go digging for posts. What we did to the role limits when we increased the support for 50 players is apply a formula to evenly increase all the roles to match what it was before. While allowing for more players in the server. You need to realize that with more players theres going to be more of the other roles. Would you have preferred we made it where all the roles were left the 32 player limits and then all the other additional 18 players are forced into rifleman? That just is not something we felt would be good to do. I know I personally would not want to play on the 50 player servers if that were the case and you know what I would do... I would stick to the 32 player servers where absolutely nothing has changed in regards to the role limits.

Sabu
 
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#188
[RO]Sabu said:
What we did to the role limits when we increased the support for 50 players is apply a formula to evenly increase all the roles to match what it was before. While allowing for more players in the server.
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Not read everything thats been going on in this thread recently, but thats not really true imo. The limits would be the same if there were 64 players (the max), but in fact the maximum was decided as 50, so the ratios are different. Just take a look at some of the screenies here:

http://www.redorchestragame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19475&highlight=smgs&page=6

The ratio of bolt to everything else is quite different on a 50 player server to a 32 one.

My opinion on this is that part of what makes RO so unique is that you sometimes have to use a weapon that is not that easy to use (bolt). Its not about forcing you to use something you don't want to, but playing a game because it IS hard..if you did away with most of the bolts you would have happy players, but it would be a much easier game and I wouldn't see the point in playing it compared to other games.
 
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#190
melipone said:
Not read everything thats been going on in this thread recently, but thats not really true imo. The limits would be the same if there were 64 players (the max), but in fact the maximum was decided as 50, so the ratios are different. Just take a look at some of the screenies here:

http://www.redorchestragame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19475&highlight=smgs&page=6

The ratio of bolt to everything else is quite different on a 50 player server to a 32 one.

My opinion on this is that part of what makes RO so unique is that you sometimes have to use a weapon that is not that easy to use (bolt). Its not about forcing you to use something you don't want to, but playing a game because it IS hard..if you did away with most of the bolts you would have happy players, but it would be a much easier game and I wouldn't see the point in playing it compared to other games.
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EXACTLY !!!!!!!! LOL I even didn't know about that big thread, Sabu ---> here you have all proof in that thread about that people don't like so many smgs.
 
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#192
I am going to post something Ramm posted in that thread for you... This is what really happened to the maps, and is using Danzig as an example.

Originally Posted by [RO]Ramm-Jaeger
If you were playing on a 32 player server then the roles are EXACTLY like they have always been. There were no more smgs or autos or any role for that matter added for 32 player servers. For anyone playing the game, if they want to have the same experience they always had, they can play on a 32 player server.

There is also a LOT of exaggeration going on in this thread (such as saying the SMG roles have doubled on maps like Danzig). The ratio's of SMGs to bolts is in most instances EXACTLY the same as it was before. Here is an example:

Danzig:

Russian SMG Limits:
32 Players - 4 (Same as always)
33-44 Players - 5
45-64 Players - 6

A little quick math reveals:
32 Players/50 Players = 1.56 (The ratio of increase of the number of players from 32 to 50 players)
1.56 * 4 (the number of SMGs before) = 6.24 (Rounded down to 6 since you can't have .24 roles)

German SMG Limits:
32 Players - 4 (Same as always)
33-44 Players - 5
45-64 Players - 6

1.56 * 4 (the number of SMGs before) = 6.24 (Rounded down to 6 since you can't have .24 roles)

Russian LMG Limits:
32 Players - 1 (Same as always)
33-44 Players - 1
45-64 Players - 2

1.56 * 1 (the number of LMGs before) = 1.56 (Rounded up to 2 since you can't have .56 roles)

So before everyone crying "Sellout" or "Tripwire is catering to the run-n-gun masses" take a step back and look at the facts. The ratio of bolts to SMG, MGs, etc is the same as it always was. All we're doing is generally retaining the same ratio of different types of weapons that we had before. The thing is there are just a LOT more people on a 50 player server, so it seems like there are a lot more SMGs. Also, its possible if you're playing on a half full 50 player server then you could end up with too many of certain roles (which we may need to address in the future). If as some have suggested you want to have ratio of SMGs to bolts far LOWER than "good old standard RO" as was seen in the beta, then someone should create a mutator for that, as it's not the regular RO gameplay which we have had since the beginning.

We've never been about RO "catering to the masses" and we're not about that now. There are a lot of new players on right now because of the guest passes (as well as lots of new people buying the game because of all the PR). This will cause an influx of new players. We WILL always do our best to promote the game and get new people to buy the game (and not by dumbing it down). Don't like new people buying the game - tough. Tripwire has to eat :) If no new poeple buy the game, Tripwire runs out of money, and that means no more free updates. So you'll just have to live with "noobs" invading the game from time to time. Remember, you were all noobs once :)
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The Rifleman or Bolt slot was left as unlimited Im not sure how many more rifles you want but unlimited seems the right amount to me. We all Realize you do not like the 50 player servers I am not trying to tell you you have to like them, I just want you to get the facts straight before you spew nonsense. I say we just agree you don't care to play in these servers and thats that. This really is going no where.


Sabu
 
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#193
[RO]Sabu said:
snip
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Just look at those screenshots I posted for Stalingrad Kessal -

32 player server =

5 SMG, 2 Semi Auto

50 player server =

11 SMG, 5 Semi Auto

18 more players per side (64% more), yet there are more than 100% more SMG's and semi autos per team. If they had gone up by a formula that kept the numbers nearly the same wouldn't there be about 8 smg's and 3 semi autos? This doesn't take into account the fact that with more weapons being dropped = more weapons to pick up. There should be 11 of these in total, but there are now 16. 5 more per side, 10 in total.

You are quoting information for a map that is already the most "noob" friendly map in the whole of RO (nade spam map) so I can see why things weren't changed much for that map. Its not like that across all the maps.

Saying that bolts are unlimited so its fine is BS - why not just have infinate smg's in that case? You could just be bolt still if you wanted...I doubt there would be many though because people will take the easier option.

I'm just pointing out the facts, not saying that 50 player servers are crap..just saying that its not correct what you say.
 
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#196
Keystone said:
They just changed completely RO to more arcade gamy by adding those big servers and beacuse of that people who wanted real ww2 battle don't have where to play now. All good custom servers has been changed to 40-50 slots and now there are only a little servers with standart maps. Many people beacuse of that already left RO, in the morning I almost don't see any full server. Before update it never happend.
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Ok, here's the deal. I'll lay this out in VERY simple terms, since this seems to be a difficult concept for some to grasp.


1.) Adding more people to a map does not automatically make the game more arcadey. More crowded, yes. But not more arcadey. Unless, of course, crowded = arcadey to you, I suppose.

2.) Bolts are unlimited. If everyone wants to get together to pick nothing but bolts, there is nothing stopping you. People choose the semi-auto and full-auto weapons because that's their preference under certain conditions. I guarantee you, under the right conditions they'd pick bolt action rifles (or at least semi-auto rifles) exclusively. I, for one, would not be caught dead with an SMG on Berezina. For everything except storming a trench, you might as well be using a wet noodle. Most of the stock RO maps are close combat, though,

3.) Your complaint is not about how YOU play the game. You are complaining about how OTHER people play the game and how you want them to play it the way you like to play it. This is highly selfish. Essentially, what it comes down to is you saying "I want people to not be able to use semi-auto or full auto weapons, and to have to use the bolt action rifle, or at least to have to use them more often than they currently do." You would rather deny people the CHOICE to play differently, and force them to play your way, instead of leaving it up to them and being disappointed in the result.

News flash: Get over it. If you don't like how other people play the game, start your own server, or join a group of like-minded people. NONE of this is TWI's fault. It's TWI providing the community with options, and the community is CHOOSING to play in a way different from your preferred playstyle. I'm sure that if you looked through this thread and PMed everyone who complained about "ZOMG!!! NOW THERE'S MORE SMGS AND SEMI AUTOS AND IT SUXORZ!!11!", and decided to form your own server/clan/whatever, you could probably continue playing exactly how you want.

My hunch is that none of the folks complaining here really want to do that, because it requires a lot more effort on their part than they're willing to make. They want the game to be limited to only one style of play -- their own preferred style -- so that no matter where they go or what server they play on, they know they'll be able to play exactly the way they like it.

Now, I know it sucks when you wake up one day and realize your tastes are not the preferred tastes of the masses. It's a disappointment to me when I turn on the TV and see game shows and reality TV instead of good drama and quality storytelling. Life stinks sometimes, but try to learn to soldier on.
 
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#199
deep down it doesnt matter if there is 5 players or 50 players. Its still just DM with WW2 and more realism than other FPS games but it still has all the short comings that come with them.

I've played RO wince the ut2k3 days and not much has changed in the underlying core game play which is Kill things and then CAP if possible.

Adding more players may or may not be good, but maybe they need to do more to make the game more team oriented.
 
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#200
Keystone said:
Solo with more then 38 players almost nobody is a rifleman so game then is too easy that's why I'm calling arcade.
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Easy does not equal arcadey in my book. Is it easier to use an SMG on a close quarters map? Hell yes, and that's the point! But try using an SMG on maps with more long range shooting like, say, Kaukasus, or Berezina, or any of the other similar maps.

The problem is not the SMGs, it's the maps themselves. If the game feels arcadey because there's a lot of SMGers out there, just try playing on different maps. Too many people on a close-quarters map will ruin the game, in my opinion --- but I do NOT blame TWI for that. I blame the servers for running maps that don't fit their number of player slots.

Krasnyi Oktyabr with 40+ people is guaranteed to suck, pretty much. Maps like Stalingrad Kessel have far more opportunity for close quarters engagements, so naturally an SMG will be the right tool for the job there.

If someone simply doesn't WANT to use an SMG, either out of a sense of elitism or because they just can't get the hang of it, or because they hate the noise they make, that's THEIR choice. Other people chose differently. Personally I think you make more trouble for yourself by grabbing a rifle and going into close combat in such situations. Use your weapon to the best of its abilities.
 
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