Beta Release Better Realism Weapons Mutator

[Cat_in_da_Hat]

They affect the separate maps, BetterRealism is only for RO2 maps and BetterRealism_RS is only for RS. Load them both if your server has both RO2 and RS maps running. There's no performance difference because the mutators only activate on their respective maps.

Hmm seem to be having trouble loading the one for RO. BetterRealism_RS is the only one showing as loading through the webadmin.

Anyway updated to latest and it is on my mutator test server if you want to have a look. Dont forget, its in the unranked area.

 

[Kleist]

If that's the case, me and Dibbler are working on a new system that will enable us to use certain custom weapons (such as MG34 Belt) and when that's finished, we shall test again.

Also with what you've stated I've set the mutator to run functions client-side, which hopefully will have an effect. I will upload this fix today for further testing; later down the line we will be able to test Role changes as well

sounds great

I have started a little poll about weapon variations for classic

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=91971

only a few votes until now, but the most of them like the idea (of course )

 

[Panzer Jager '43]

The current version of the mod is not working for clients to a server, but Dibbler and I are collaborating and he's helping a lot with getting the mod to run.
In the future there may be a merge of the two mods completely!

For now, the recent update re-enabled Classic roles in Rising Storm maps, so that there are not too many Type 14 pistols and Type 100 SMGs.

 

[GnaM]

This sounds like exactly the sort of mutator I've been wanting ever since I first played RO2. Unfortunately, the mutators have yet to show up in my "Workshop Mutators" list, so I'm not able to try it out, but it sounds pretty cool.

EDIT: Finally got it working, and this is how the game should have shipped. It's so much fun firing the rifles and actually feeling like there's some power behind it. Using the semi-auto rifles and actually having to work the rifle back onto the target to fire the next shot when you want is amazing. Even the Mkb is fun to use now, even though it really shouldn't be on Stalingrad maps.

The PPSH recoil still seems high, especially in semi-auto. Is this just due to the old animations, or the actual recoil values? That's really my only criticism.

 

[Panzer Jager '43]

The PPSh recoil on Semi is high strictly due to the animation. The actual "kick" is less than the MP40 shot per shot.

 

[marcinz]

I played few bot games using your mutator (+sound mutator) and my ONLY complaint is that terrible classic movement speed.

 

[Kleist]

I played few bot games using your mutator (+sound mutator) and my ONLY complaint is that terrible classic movement speed.

let me guess...

Normally you play realism or a lot of realism, right?

Than it

 

[SQBsam]

I play on Cat's server, which is custom classic, one of the main things he's changed is the running speed which is closer to, if not, realism sprinting speed.

Why? Because it's more realistic AND the animations are made for it. With the classic running speed the animations cause people to look like they're walking on the moon, it gets EVEN WORSE when they run out of stamina and "sprint on the spot".

This is the one part of the mutator that... well.. shouldn't be part of the mutator, or at least should be OPTIONAL.

 

[marcinz]

I can live with classic running speed as long as I'm running alone. Third person slow-motion running animations are what REALLY puts me off.

Please let us test this mutator with realism runing speed (with no progression bonuses)

EDIT: oh, and Rising Storm banzai charges simply do not work with classic running speed ;P

 

[Thelionheart]

A few things that I don't like about this mutator. If I don't mention something then it means that I really really like it.

• Going from sprint to ironsights takes about three seconds; IMO that's a little bit too long. Maybe two or two and a half seconds would be better, but as of right now its almost to the point of it feeling like super bad input lag rather than being intentional. Additionally I think pistols should be super fast when it comes to aiming down the sights relative to all of the other weapons. Pistols are already really inaccurate so I think giving the pistols the niche of being super maneuverable would be pretty cool while still making them balanced.
• I understand why the AVT's recoil is so high in a realism sense, but in a gameplay sense it's practically unusable. Out of all of the fps games I've ever played this thing has the most recoil out of any weapon I've used by a country mile. Please consider toning it down.
• I'm not sure if this is possible, but please give us the ability to use the level 50 kar98k and mosin nagant if we've unlocked them.
• Please add the option to use Realism's run speed; the biggest reason I don't play classic is because the run speed makes me feel like a fat kid with polio trying to walk up mount Everest with leg weights on.

And finally this is more of an observation: with the massively increased recoil on the MKb42 it becomes apparent that the MKb generally takes around 3 shots to kill someone. I like the amount of recoil that was added to it, but coupled with the low stopping power it makes the weapon almost frustrating to use at times due to it wounding instead of killing targets.

 

[GnaM]

The PPSh recoil on Semi is high strictly due to the animation. The actual "kick" is less than the MP40 shot per shot.

Yeah that's what I figured. I had the same problem when I was working on a Rainbow Six Vegas realism mod. Not only were the animations too exaggerated on some weapons, but some weapons recoiled DOWN or LEFT instead of up and to the right. In a perfect world, the whole recoil action would be managed by the code instead of the animations, so they could be easily adjusted by just changing the values.

I can live with classic running speed as long as I'm running alone. Third person slow-motion running animations are what REALLY puts me off.

Yeah, I think the best quick-fix would be to use realism running speeds, but disable mouse turning during the sprint (maybe your mouse does freelook during sprinting). This way you can't abuse the realism sprint to do unrealistic zigzags and lightning fast turns.

Also, have the game kick you back to walking if you're on stairs or steep inclines.

[*]I understand why the AVT's recoil is so high in a realism since, but in a gameplay since it's practically unusable. Out of all of the fps games I've ever played this thing has the most recoil out of any weapon I've used by a country mile. Please consider toning it down.

The AVT was unusable in real life, why do you think they decided not to put it into mass production? The same was true of the M14; the U.S. military actually disabled the fire selector before issuing it to troops, because after manufacturing it, they realized the recoil made the auto feature useless. Standard-size rifles just don't work very well with full-power cartridges in full auto; they're too light to handle it...which is exactly why the assault rifle was born.

And finally this is more of an observation: with the massively increased recoil on the MKb42 it becomes apparent that the MKb generally takes around 3 shots to kill someone. I like the amount of recoil that was added to it, but coupled with the low stopping power it makes the weapon almost frustrating to use at times due to it wounding instead of killing targets.

Yeah, I don't know what the damage values are in the game, but IRL the 7.92x33 round actually does MORE damage than conventional rifle cartridges due to early yaw, as shown here:

http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/DocGKR/WWII.jpg

 

[Fishsticks]

Yeah, I don't know what the damage values are in the game, but IRL the 7.92x33 round actually does MORE damage than conventional rifle cartridges due to early yaw, as shown here:

Maybe that can be fixed as well with this mod?

It would be nice to see this mod included more realistic round velocities (I believe some of them are off )

 

[Panzer Jager '43]

Yeah that's what I figured. I had the same problem when I was working on a Rainbow Six Vegas realism mod. Not only were the animations too exaggerated on some weapons, but some weapons recoiled DOWN or LEFT instead of up and to the right. In a perfect world, the whole recoil action would be managed by the code instead of the animations, so they could be easily adjusted by just changing the values.


Yeah, I think the best quick-fix would be to use realism running speeds, but disable mouse turning during the sprint (maybe your mouse does freelook during sprinting). This way you can't abuse the realism sprint to do unrealistic zigzags and lightning fast turns.

Also, have the game kick you back to walking if you're on stairs or steep inclines.


The AVT was unusable in real life, why do you think they decided not to put it into mass production? The same was true of the M14; the U.S. military actually disabled the fire selector before issuing it to troops, because after manufacturing it, they realized the recoil made the auto feature useless. Standard-size rifles just don't work very well with full-power cartridges in full auto; they're too light to handle it...which is exactly why the assault rifle was born.


Yeah, I don't know what the damage values are in the game, but IRL the 7.92x33 round actually does MORE damage than conventional rifle cartridges due to early yaw, as shown here:

http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/DocGKR/WWII.jpg

Lots of good comments here. Let's go through them:

1. I may test Realism sprint speed without the superman Hero bonuses. After testing I will decide whether to enable it by default, or make it an option; either case is a change for the better.

2. You're right about the AVT stuff; also, as was asked by the person before you, if I turn down the recoil I'd have to turn down the recoil for every weapon. All recoil values are meant to be relative to the other guns. The AVT right now is meant for Semi; I don't really like the weapon for Stalingrad anyways, and when this mod gets to the custom weapons stage it will likely be removed (as well as MkB).

3. The terminal ballistics image you have of the 7.92x33mm wound is actually not 7.92x33mm, it's a copy of the images surfacing around the web for 7.62x39mm M67. The 7.92x33mm round actually yaws a bit later; according to Brass Fetcher it can yaw anywhere between 7.1" depth and 15.5" depth. I factored this into my yaw damage calculation. The end result is the new MkB42 does a damage of 78, as opposed to Tripwire's MkB doing 70 (very small difference, but Tripwire's damage is closer the not-yawing 7.62x39mm M43.)

 

[Proud_God]

Panzer Jager, does it seem in any way possible to you to make movement speed depend on terrain? Maybe even limiting it to slower movement on stairs would be great. Can the code that is used for water be used for that, you think?

 

[Panzer Jager '43]

Sadly, water movement is completely handled by the native code (the .exe.)

 

[Kleist]

Sadly, water movement is completely handled by the native code (the .exe.)

That mean? You have not the sources to do it? But Tripwire could do it?

 

[Panzer Jager '43]

Basically, yes. Assuming they'd be able to come up with an efficient way to detect when the player is on stairs and then slow them.

 

[dibbler67]

Basically, yes. Assuming they'd be able to come up with an efficient way to detect when the player is on stairs and then slow them.

Actually I can think of a way to do this. Simply check the movement rate of the player in the z-axis and if it exceeds a certain rate (meaning they're moving uphill if it's positive downhill if negative) update the speed modifier the game uses to give higher level players faster movement. Then set it back when done.

This could be accomplished in some actor attached to the player on spawn.

 

[GnaM]

The AVT right now is meant for Semi; I don't really like the weapon for Stalingrad anyways, and when this mod gets to the custom weapons stage it will likely be removed (as well as MkB).

Nice, I agree 100%!

The terminal ballistics image you have of the 7.92x33mm wound is actually not 7.92x33mm, it's a copy of the images surfacing around the web for 7.62x39mm M67. The 7.92x33mm round actually yaws a bit later; according to Brass Fetcher it can yaw anywhere between 7.1" depth and 15.5" depth. I factored this into my yaw damage calculation. The end result is the new MkB42 does a damage of 78, as opposed to Tripwire's MkB doing 70 (very small difference, but Tripwire's damage is closer the not-yawing 7.62x39mm M43.)

Hmmmmmm.... The profile for the M67 Yugo curves up after the 2nd time it yaws, whereas the 7.92 profile continues straight after the 2nd yaw.

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Misc_Images/DocGKR/RussianWP.jpg
http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/DocGKR/WWII.jpg

I believe what you're saying about the variation in yaw distance, and I couldn't tell you what the diagram is based on or how accurate it is, but at the very least we can see it's not an exact copy of the same image.

I always thought that diagram seemed too good to be true anyways.

 

[Mike_Nomad]

- - - snip - - -

2. You're right about the AVT stuff; also, as was asked by the person before you, if I turn down the recoil I'd have to turn down the recoil for every weapon. All recoil values are meant to be relative to the other guns. The AVT right now is meant for Semi; I don't really like the weapon for Stalingrad anyways, and when this mod gets to the custom weapons stage it will likely be removed (as well as MkB).

REMOVED or, an option to be removed?

If only removed (no Admin options) .... then this mut will never see the light of day on any of our servers.