[Beta 3] RO-Berezina
- Thread starter Slyk
- Start date
10/16/2006:
Just a quick update. Not dead in the water but drifting. Still waiting on BT7 skins. Three guys are working on it and first one in may win.
The 45mm is most likely going to be missing the cut, due to development time constraints. I hope to finalize this by the end of the month. It is slowly killing me waiting to do so.
Thanks to all those who continue to run it on servers and to the players.
Just a quick update. Not dead in the water but drifting. Still waiting on BT7 skins. Three guys are working on it and first one in may win.
The 45mm is most likely going to be missing the cut, due to development time constraints. I hope to finalize this by the end of the month. It is slowly killing me waiting to do so.Thanks to all those who continue to run it on servers and to the players.
Slyk, you've done really, really great so far. We are all very grateful not only for what you've created but for the new techniques in map philosophy and design that you have shown to other mappers.
You totally can have a few weeks of crack and hookers, and just get back to Berezina whenever.
You totally can have a few weeks of crack and hookers, and just get back to Berezina whenever.
Played a couple more rounds this weekend, on both sides and it came right down to the wire both times. I said it before, and I will say it again. Simply Awesome!
I saw a few comments along these lines. Thought I's add my two cents.
Really love the map, had great fun on it the past couple of days. That is until the Germans realized that they can move behind Russian lines with impunity. When the Russians fall back to second line the Germans got a couple of assult troopers in the mouth of the bunker complex on the back side. Well this is where the Russians spawn, two Germans with MP40's killed every soldier one after another for about 5 minutes the second they spawned. After about 3 minutes over half the Russian team quit because it was so rediculous. Great map, but need to protect the Russian spawn there.
Really love the map, had great fun on it the past couple of days. That is until the Germans realized that they can move behind Russian lines with impunity. When the Russians fall back to second line the Germans got a couple of assult troopers in the mouth of the bunker complex on the back side. Well this is where the Russians spawn, two Germans with MP40's killed every soldier one after another for about 5 minutes the second they spawned. After about 3 minutes over half the Russian team quit because it was so rediculous. Great map, but need to protect the Russian spawn there.
Yeah, I noticed the same thing on both MANNY and RTR servers. These last few days, it's always the same little group of German players who exploit this as soon as Russians fall back to second line.
Once germans are proning in the corners of the spawn area. It's impossible for the russians who spawn there to do anything but die until someone who spawned in the village can help. When the same Germans players repeat this "strategy" over and over, the Russian reinforcements go down very quickly.
Hell, to make it worse, they can even intentionally avoid capturing second line so the Russians can't fall back to a safer spawn area.
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Just as the Germans are using the whole width of the map to their advantage, so must the Russians. They do not need to confine themselves to the actual trenches where the cap zone is. If they do, they open themselves up to being flanked. Put a few guys on the flank. If they are overrun, they should tell their team so they can rush reinforcements to the appropriate area. to prevent that from happening.
If they just sit in the trench the whole time, they should expect a creative German team to outflank them.
If they just sit in the trench the whole time, they should expect a creative German team to outflank them.
I'm not sure you understand. It's not that they're being overrun. It is, as I understand it, that they're being killed LITERALLY the second they spawn. The Russians at the 2nd line all spawn in a single (or maybe two) rooms towards the rear of the bunker complex. There's a long hallway leading out of the back of the bunker complex onto a hill, and then back towards the village. This is likely in place to allow the Russians to escape through the tunnels when the 2nd line is finally taken.
Thing is, without the spawn protection (which has now been added, so hopefully this will be a moot point across the entire map), the Germans can approach this two ways:
1.) BEFORE capturing the farm, they send a small detachment of men to the BACK exit of the bunker complex at the 2nd line. The Russians will likely fall back and defend at the trench, since that's where most of the attacks by the enemy will come from. Any soldier killed at the trench line will soon spawn back at the one or two rooms where the Germans are already prone, locked, and loaded. They hose down the spawning troops, who never have a chance to shoot back even.
2.) The Germans capture the farm, and begin their assault. As part of the assault, they send a few SMGers around the back and into the spawn. Kill any Russian there, and then hunker down in the spawns to kill the russians as they spawn.
Consider the potential impact of this tactic. Two German troopers could, conceivably, lock up almost the ENTIRE Russian team. Get more Germans in there, and that's it. Game over for the Russians. All because people are willing to take advantage of the game convention of "spawning in" to a map.
This is, as I see it, dirty pool. It denies the enemy even the opportunity to fight back, and is basically shooting fish in a barrel. If that's what people want to do, I encourage them to either go kill the bots, or sit down with a shrink to work out their anger issues rather than purposely denying other players the fun of playing the game.
Unfortunately, there will always be people who will take advantage of loopholes like this, purely for their own enjoyment, so it's up to the mapmakers to ensure that it can't happen. Slyk has changed the map accordingly, so moving forward this won't be a problem.
Slyk, thanks for making the change. If you only made it for this spawn, you might want to check the other spawns out too for both sides. As a general rule, I believe well design maps need more than one exit from any spawn area, and approaches to those spawn areas need to be EXTREMELY difficult for an enemy -- like, lots of open ground, no place to really hide, etc. For enclosed spawns like the bunker, you're probably better off putting a temporary minefield around the area to avoid this.
Thing is, without the spawn protection (which has now been added, so hopefully this will be a moot point across the entire map), the Germans can approach this two ways:
1.) BEFORE capturing the farm, they send a small detachment of men to the BACK exit of the bunker complex at the 2nd line. The Russians will likely fall back and defend at the trench, since that's where most of the attacks by the enemy will come from. Any soldier killed at the trench line will soon spawn back at the one or two rooms where the Germans are already prone, locked, and loaded. They hose down the spawning troops, who never have a chance to shoot back even.
2.) The Germans capture the farm, and begin their assault. As part of the assault, they send a few SMGers around the back and into the spawn. Kill any Russian there, and then hunker down in the spawns to kill the russians as they spawn.
Consider the potential impact of this tactic. Two German troopers could, conceivably, lock up almost the ENTIRE Russian team. Get more Germans in there, and that's it. Game over for the Russians. All because people are willing to take advantage of the game convention of "spawning in" to a map.
This is, as I see it, dirty pool. It denies the enemy even the opportunity to fight back, and is basically shooting fish in a barrel. If that's what people want to do, I encourage them to either go kill the bots, or sit down with a shrink to work out their anger issues rather than purposely denying other players the fun of playing the game.
Unfortunately, there will always be people who will take advantage of loopholes like this, purely for their own enjoyment, so it's up to the mapmakers to ensure that it can't happen. Slyk has changed the map accordingly, so moving forward this won't be a problem.
Slyk, thanks for making the change. If you only made it for this spawn, you might want to check the other spawns out too for both sides. As a general rule, I believe well design maps need more than one exit from any spawn area, and approaches to those spawn areas need to be EXTREMELY difficult for an enemy -- like, lots of open ground, no place to really hide, etc. For enclosed spawns like the bunker, you're probably better off putting a temporary minefield around the area to avoid this.
Yeah, i played with you yesterday and some douchebag called "muffin" just stayed in our spawn and shot us the second we spawned. :/
Fixed it with a spawn protection that somehow got deleted or not implemented for beta3. Not sure what happened, but it's fixed. I am thinking of also adding another room or two down there to spread out the spawns and give guys a chance just in case some loser manages to get in and camp. Some people are so pathetic it is beyond description. Penis envy, I suppose.
Aaaahhh... I see (your right, I thought they were only being overrun...). It would take some time and effort for the Russians to stop them in that case. But in any case, SLYK says he took care of it.
Small problem with capturing the Second Line:
I was defending, and the Germans captured it with a slight advantage in numbers. No problem there.
The problem is I IMMEDIATELY got a "you are behind enemy lines!" popup, and there was absolutely no way I could get out of the zone before I was blown to bits.
I was defending, and the Germans captured it with a slight advantage in numbers. No problem there.
The problem is I IMMEDIATELY got a "you are behind enemy lines!" popup, and there was absolutely no way I could get out of the zone before I was blown to bits.
Slyk mentionned something before about giving "amnesty" to players left in newly captured enemy zone.
Doesn't seem to work though. Like you, I often get executed after enemy captures a new position.
This is quite an issue as it is sometimes acting like an immediate kill and other times not. I'll extend the clock maybe to :60 instead of the :15 or :30 now in place.
EDIT: Figured out the outpost/crossroad issue. Some idiot mapper turned off "use spawns" for the German #2 spawn protection. He will be flogged accordingly. As for the 2nd line issue, it looks pretty good as it is shaped around the trench area but does eliminate the access from each side on 'top' of the terrain...the tunnels are free and clear. I'll keep testing scenarios and tweak as best I can. Looking like a beta4 will arrive sometime around October 27th.
EDIT: Figured out the outpost/crossroad issue. Some idiot mapper turned off "use spawns" for the German #2 spawn protection. He will be flogged accordingly. As for the 2nd line issue, it looks pretty good as it is shaped around the trench area but does eliminate the access from each side on 'top' of the terrain...the tunnels are free and clear. I'll keep testing scenarios and tweak as best I can. Looking like a beta4 will arrive sometime around October 27th.
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Jeans, it not Russian clothes of 1941-1945. Jeans have appeared in Russia in 1970.
OMG, Can I have another box of nits for Plaz to pick???