nope. the "stupid" were the ones that were badly out of position, and not defending like they were supposed to.
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Beta Map [Beta 2] RO-Berezina
- Thread starter Slyk
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nope. the "stupid" were the ones that were badly out of position, and not defending like they were supposed to.
Honestly, this feature is exactly the same as the spawn protections used by the stock maps where it tells you that you have entered a minefield. Mine are just moving with the spawns and generally the defending team should be aware of their location and doing the 'right' thing. The German team can also wander into these zones now in the upcoming version in some areas. You can't do much to make people play smart but at some point they either 'get' it or they move on to other maps because they can't cope. I'm not one to dummy down a solid project for the idiots out there to be happy.
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Will the BT-7 fit in the tank sockets?
I've noticed the current T-60 model tends to be too short to properly fit in the tank sockets compared to the KV-1s's. You can't see over the rim in the turret.
According to Wikipedia the tank heights are as follows
T-60: 1.75 meters
BT-7: 2.25 meters
KV-1s: 2.7 meters
Looks like about a half meter height between each.
I've noticed the current T-60 model tends to be too short to properly fit in the tank sockets compared to the KV-1s's. You can't see over the rim in the turret.
According to Wikipedia the tank heights are as follows
T-60: 1.75 meters
BT-7: 2.25 meters
KV-1s: 2.7 meters
Looks like about a half meter height between each.
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No plans to alter the tank pits. The lighter tanks shouldn't be hiding anyway, they are just as vulnerable in as out and should be moving unless they are firing. Changes would only expose the KVs to more fire, especially deadly flank fire which is their greatest danger. I know some would like to have the MGs firing line opened, but again, that exposes another spot for shells to come in. This may make team tanking more difficult or pointless in many areas, but in the end it is far better for the tanks themselves.
EDIT: on further thought, how about a volume placed over the west bank of the river that will kill Russians soliders who cross over after that objective is lost.... I think that has a good chance for the next release. Perhaps a 45 second warning but nonetheless, certain death. That will save me having to shoot my fellow soldiers in the back when the run over there...also makes risk of TK kicks much less!
I have to admit to taking the sniper role solely for this purpose late in the game.
EDIT: on further thought, how about a volume placed over the west bank of the river that will kill Russians soliders who cross over after that objective is lost.... I think that has a good chance for the next release. Perhaps a 45 second warning but nonetheless, certain death. That will save me having to shoot my fellow soldiers in the back when the run over there...also makes risk of TK kicks much less!
I have to admit to taking the sniper role solely for this purpose late in the game.
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I prefer to be able to occasionally sneak over to the west bank at times myself as a Russian. If you were to do that, I would say maybe near the AT Guns, but leave the West Bank open for Russians. In some cases, infantry can wreck havoc on halftracks and tanks of an uncoordinated German Team. Also on several occasions, as Russians, we have had to send over assualt troops to take care of a pesky MG position. At times, the Russians have deliberately (as a team) attacked accross the river, it was not rogue players.
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So to keep it short, I would prefer it if the Russians weren't confined to the East Side of the river during their last stand.
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So to keep it short, I would prefer it if the Russians weren't confined to the East Side of the river during their last stand.
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Moe,
You might have something there. Seeing as the Russians can be flanked easily and spanked. Slyk, naturally its your call but a little flexibility wouldn't hurt.
You might have something there. Seeing as the Russians can be flanked easily and spanked. Slyk, naturally its your call but a little flexibility wouldn't hurt.
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I am going to have to agree here if you are all out of tanks sometimes you have to send over the suicidal satchel bunnies.
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Under many circumstances, I would agree, but that is not always the case. Sometimes having the flexability and being able to act upon it can really help a situation. It would be great if the Russian Team could assess the situation and when needed, act upon it. Now of course it is SLYK's map, and will be great either way, I just think it would be nice to have that flexability for the Russian's if needed.
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A point worth looking at. I can see putting a mine volume in to stop the Germans just short of the spawn house/barn areas. There is no reason to allow the Germans to drive back deep, and set up against the back tree wall. Rather lame tactic.
I'm not sure on the river volume. Probably I will just leave it as is although nothing pisses me off more than guys running over there and dying only to repeat. I personally see no point in crossing the river at ANY time for ANY reason once the situation comes to holding the last zone. Leaving your trench line only exposes you to more fire from more angles and the further you go, the higher the chance you die from friendly fire and the greater the odds against you as you become mixed in the German lines/vehicles/troops. It is just smarter, in my opinion, to hunker down and cover your butt until the bitter end.
I have seen far too many Russian losses because only a couple guys try to hold the cap zone while the others are off acting like idiots charging the river or hiding in far away corners for whatever reason. Not dying doesn't help your team much if you are not 'not dying' in the trench line. Far too many times the Germans cap and win with only two or three guys.
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Slyk, think of it this way for a sec. Realistically speaking, if the Russians defended their side of the river properly ie., TEAM WORK. The Germans would never get that far. It happens because the players who either refuse to play as a team or do not understand the intended game play allow it to occur. The last thing you want to do is approach the old "on a rail" type gameplay.
Your original concept and design has proven to make Berezina a solid winner. Why deviate and change what is not broken.
Second guessing yourself or allowing yourself to be distracted from the winning concept and design is not a good thing. Besides, now is the time to add some features (if any) fix cosmetics, adjust certain areas, optimize the map (if possible) do the tweaks and modify whatever is needed to modify after the immenent update release.
Please think seriously and long about this, stick to your ORIGINAL design and concept - Its what has Berezina the winner that it is.
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![[TW]DrGuppy](/data/avatars/s/0/171.jpg?1568638684){kind=avatar}
The ability to spawn camp = something is broken. Just because you think the map is perfect doesn't mean everyone does so Slyk should consider people opinions and maybe work in a few compromises. Would it be so bad if there was a mine volume at the last Russian cap zone to prevent people from sneaking around the objective solely for the purpose of spawn camping? How is that the fault of the defending team when they were all in the last cap zone instead of checking the edges of the map for people like this? I think 95% of the people who play this map would welcome some spawn protection at the last cap zone. The other 5% are probably the people doing the spawn camping and they won't be missed.
Just remember that spawn camping should never be encouraged, no matter how badly one team is doing.
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To put it bluntly, the Russians can do the same thing to the Germans. Besides, nobody is encouraging any such thing. Ya want realism??? Ya got realism.
Honestly, I can see where that can happen but its a two-way street. I know that spawn raping is horrid but then, its usually done by incompetant dolts like TK'ers who cannot get anywhere on any map.
Limiting this and limiting that will kill the map's expansive attributes that make it so great. I'm sorry for those who cannot seem to handle the map's challenge, perhaps they should learn to play as a team and then, suddenly this "mickey mouse, hold my hand" pleadings and problems will magically disappear.
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To put it bluntly, the Russians can do the same thing to the Germans. Besides, nobody is encouraging any such thing. Ya want realism??? Ya got realism.
Honestly, I can see where that can happen but its a two-way street. I know that spawn raping is horrid but then, its usually done by incompetant dolts like TK'ers who cannot get anywhere on any map.
Limiting this and limiting that will kill the map's expansive attributes that make it so great. I'm sorry for those who cannot seem to handle the map's challenge, perhaps they should learn to play as a team and then, suddenly this "mickey mouse, hold my hand" pleadings and problems will magically disappear.
By leaving a problem in a map you are encouraging people to exploit it. So what if the Russians can do it back to the Germans? Does that make it right? Does that make the map better? Also, there is nothing realistic about spawn camping. Those players should be going for the cap zones, not the other teams spawn. By giving them the option to go around the edge of the map and spawn camp you are basically encouraging them to do so.
If spawn camping is done by incompetant dolts and TKers then why would you not want to stop them? I don't understand how putting in a mine volume to stop spawn camping could be seen as 'killing the map's expansive attributes'. If done right you can keep flanking options open while preventing spawn killing. Isn't that something that's worth changing?
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Any possibilites of stopping the russians from getting over the hill so they can see crossroads when they are supoosed to be defending 1st line ? A russian tank was able to move up close to outpost and pretty much annihilate the russians as they came out of the spawn, not to mention continuously destroying halftracks. Because of the tanks superior range it is pretty much invincible against infantry attack and can only be stopped if an axis tank gets into a position to take it out.
It really destroys any chance the axis have of advancing and shouldnt be allowed. The only problem is that if a mine volume were added there it might kill russian defenders once the axis cap outpost and crossroads.
It really destroys any chance the axis have of advancing and shouldnt be allowed. The only problem is that if a mine volume were added there it might kill russian defenders once the axis cap outpost and crossroads.
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In other words, put the game on a predetermined rail and force all players to follow designated routes and behaviour patterns? That horribly sounds like severe regression. IE., almost as dumb as bots and bot pathing. I don't think so. I don't want my reply to appear sarcastic because it is not, it is sincere. Berezina is a great map because it allows various strategies including flanking and coming up from behind.
Please remember, the request for spawn protections has been done a number of times for Berezina. I hope for the sake of realism and strategic gameplay there are no hobbling restraints placed on the map. This particular map, like Lazur, is a perfect example of stark realism. As I've previously stated Slyk should stick to his original concept and design.
While I might be enjoying this exchange, its fairly obvious we are getting no place fast. In reality, and thankfully, the final decision is Slyk's. Not mine, not yours.... not anyone's but Slyk's
Rest assured, we enjoy Berezina immensely on our server.. this "magnanomously" tragic situation has yet to rear its ugly head. We, at RGN simply put, love the flexibility and expansiveness of the map and all that it allows.
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In other words, put the game on a predetermined rail and force all players to follow designated routes and behaviour patterns? That horribly sounds like severe regression. IE., almost as dumb as bots and bot pathing. I don't think so. I don't want my reply to appear sarcastic because it is not, it is sincere. Berezina is a great map because it allows various strategies including flanking and coming up from behind.
Please remember, the request for spawn protections has been done a number of times for Berezina. I hope for the sake of realism and strategic gameplay there are no hobbling restraints placed on the map. This particular map, like Lazur, is a perfect example of stark realism. As I've previously stated Slyk should stick to his original concept and design.
While I might be enjoying this exchange, its fairly obvious we are getting no place fast. In reality, and thankfully, the final decision is Slyk's. Not mine, not yours.... not anyone's but Slyk's
Rest assured, we enjoy Berezina immensely on our server.. this "magnanomously" tragic situation has yet to rear its ugly head. We, at RGN simply put, love the flexibility and expansiveness of the map and all that it allows.
The only thing predetermined thing I would like to see for this map is the inability to spawn camp. Spawn camping adds nothing positive to this game so it should be stopped wherever possible. Wouldn't you agree? Once again, the addition of mine volumes around the last Russian spawn would not stop people from flanking on either side. All it would do is stop people from being able to spawn camp. Sure, you would also lose the ability to come from behind but that's a wise tradeoff if you ask me. I just hope that Slyk considers it and then does what he feels works best.
Spawn protection was added for Beta 2 because a lot of people complained about the spawn camping. Beta 2 was a big step forward and all these people want is the last few spawns to be protected using the same method.
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I'm done..... I said what I had to say. Limit the map and you kill it. Its really that simple.
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