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Best Assault Rifle

Its not 2Kg, it's less than (but clouse to) 1Kg (something like 850grams IIRC), and, you are comparing it to a Type-56, which is still made from 90% AK-47 parts, it only has the Stamped reciver, none of the other AKM parts (remember that most of them where lightened, not just the reciver), and even the reciver on the T56 is different, the barrel trunion on the T56 is not the same as on the AKM, you can even see it on the outside, look at where the 3 bolts that hold the trunion is placed on an AKM, and then a T56..

You need to compare 2 real Russians to get the weight difference between the 2 Russian weapons (but i know this is a tall order, i can't imagine there's many origional 1950's made AK-47's in the US, let alone ones that are still full-auto that people will let you handle, thouse that exist will likely be bring-back's from 'Nam).


I didn't pull thease numbers out of my hindquarters, go look it up, there is a weight difference between the 47 and the AKM, and with good reason, the weight of the gun was one of the things Kalashnikov set out to improve on the AKM when the red army rejected the 47.

Hell that alone makes my point, they rejected the AK-47 after less than 10 years of service, yet they adopted the AKM despite it competing against other excellent designs like the Korobov TKB-517 Prototype, and they have been using the AKM ever since, it is still in active service in Russia along side it's siblings like the 74 and 100 models which are based on it's design.

They did this because the AKM was a big enough improvement over the 47 to warrent it, it was lighter, cheaper, and it was a better shooter, it is by all means the better of the 2 designs for military purposes (and i still stress the military part, American hobby shooters comparing a well made Arsenal SAM-7 to a cheap and nasty Semi-only Romy wont see the points in the AKM's favour, and i don't blame them, but things would look quite different to a Russian soldier ano 1961).
I don't remember the Soviers ever rejecting the AK47. The type 56 was milled at first too then in the 60s they came up with their own copy of the AKM. I imagine the milled 56 weighs pretty much the same as the original their both forged steel recievers. The milled 56 is an exact copy of the Type 3 russian the only differnce being the spike bayonet and hooded front sights.
 
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i too hate modern weapons. Even though war is a terrible thing, warfare is ruined forever.

War sucks, no matter what era, but if I was forced to fight to defend my homeland and given the choice of weapons. I'd choose an AKM, simply because I wouldn't need ranges longer than 300m, most likely less than 150m for my neck of the woods. It requires little maintenance, (if I'm a gorilla fighter high maintenance is not what I want) and is a definite combat proven design.

For longer range combat I'd want a Dragunov, or an M14, but neither of those are assault rifles.

As for the whole AK-47 being rejected, it never was to my knowledge. The milled AK-47 was used as a stop gap until they could perfect the stamped receivers for the rifles. IIRC the first AK's were stamped, but issues with production lead to the use of milled receivers. Once these issues were hammered out they restarted stamped receiver production. After all stamping a receiver is much faster and cheaper to do. It only makes sense to switch to it as soon as possible.
 
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I don't remember the Soviers ever rejecting the AK47.

They did in circa late 1957, the AK-47 had too many problems (cost and slow mass production beeing the major complaints, but weight, recoil and going out of sync where also issues), so the choice was made to replace it outright (thus, it was rejected), and several designers set about building a replacement, Kalashnikov beeing one of them, in 1959 thease prototypes underwent military trials, but only 2 of the prototypes qualified, namely Kalashnikov's AKM prototype, and Korobov's TKB-517, in the end, they decided to go with the AKM simply because they allready had all the machines to make them, and the troops where allready trained on this design.

Make no mistake though, the TKB-517 allmost won, they where neck and neck, the AK came very clouse to ending its career in 1959 and beeing just a footnote in the historybooks.

The type 56 was milled at first too then in the 60s they came up with their own copy of the AKM. I imagine the milled 56 weighs pretty much the same as the original their both forged steel recievers. The milled 56 is an exact copy of the Type 3 russian the only differnce being the spike bayonet and hooded front sights.

No, you are not reading what i said, whilst the milled Type-56 and the AK-47 are near identical save for the frontsight and its bayonet, the Stamped Type-56 and the AKM are not nearly as clously related, far from it infact, the recivers are not the same, nor are any other parts on thease two weapons (the stamped Type-56 still uses 90% AK-47 style parts, not the redesigned AKM parts), thus you cannot expect a stamped Type-56 to weigh the same as a Russian AKM, they are not build the same way.

But honestly, lets be done with this, go look it up, the empty weight of the AKM is 3.1 Kg, and the empty weight of the model-3 AK-47 is 4.3 Kg, this information is no secret, you can find it all over the net (yes, also on sites more reputable than Wikipedia, hell, it's on Izhmash's site, and they build thease guns, so they should know).
 
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hm, as much as i love playing world war 2 games, in reality, war does suck a lot. you want to read some books on the somme, verdun, stalingrad, and Sven Hassels books. Reading them really showed me what the soldiers went through. Now lets keep on topic :)

I've read many books and know many people who have served in wars both past and current. I was laughing that the "warefare is ruined forever" part. Maybe you meant it in a different way but it sounded a little funny to me.
 
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Probably HK416. At least every super special elite unit is trying to get their hands on it.
In case you never knew, the Taiwanese people already got there first.

They have a T91. And way before that, the T65. Piston ARs have been made for forever.

Oh and the Taiwanse piston ARs actually are designed specifically for piston-operation.

The thin op-rod and the short-stroke design isn't very good for the HK416's longevity.

Conclusion: HK416 and the recent piston ARs are nothing new. Not even close.

The best assault rifle to me would probably be the Robinson Arms XCR. Even if they've only made 4500, the design is sound, and it's pretty bulletproof.

G36, XM8, SA80, and even the Bushmaster ACR are really just tacti-cooled AR-18s. Yes, it's good, but it still has the hard-to-clean star-shaped bolt.

The SIG 550 is good for what is a Swiss AK. The FNC is probably the most original of the bunch, therefore the most meh. I don't like the ACR for having plastic in the same places as the XM8, namely the places that got heated enough to melt. G36 usually doesn't have ACOGs or whatnot on them, and just use the weird and probably annoying optic system. XM8 is the same.

If I would choose "most advanced rifle evar" then it'd have to go to the South-Koreans and their K11s.

They've managed to make an OICW when we failed.
 
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In case you never knew, the Taiwanese people already got there first.

They have a T91. And way before that, the T65. Piston ARs have been made for forever.

Oh and the Taiwanse piston ARs actually are designed specifically for piston-operation.

The thin op-rod and the short-stroke design isn't very good for the HK416's longevity.

Conclusion: HK416 and the recent piston ARs are nothing new. Not even close.
There's a difference between one piston and the other. And the whole harmonization between the different working groups plays a big part too. And with that, HK seem to have simply hit the nail on the head. Orders at least seem to prove them right.

The best assault rifle to me would probably be the Robinson Arms XCR. Even if they've only made 4500, the design is sound, and it's pretty bulletproof.
Aha, and what other than national pride makes you think so?

G36, XM8, SA80, and even the Bushmaster ACR are really just tacti-cooled AR-18s. Yes, it's good, but it still has the hard-to-clean star-shaped bolt.
That's like saying a Sig 550 was an AK (oh snap you even did that): way oversimplifying reality. The G36 including all subparts are so easy to clean it's a joke, it doesn't get that dirty in the first place. And that is from personal experience. You can probably ask a few others here on the forum who spent what felt like the majority of three months basic training cleaning guns, I'm sure they'll tell you the same. The differences between it and the SA80 are pretty significant to say the least. Just because they basically work on the same principle doesn't mean the final product is nearly the same.

If I would choose "most advanced rifle evar" then it'd have to go to the South-Koreans and their K11s.

They've managed to make an OICW when we failed.
I wonder how you can say that about a gun you have zero experience with.
 
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If i had a dollar for every AK vs M16 agrument i stumbled on id be able to afford both of them and provide myself with a first hand evaluation...

AK wins for me. accuracy, weight, reliability, noise and cost aside, it wins for me because i like the idea of having a gun you can bash someone thats trying to kill you to death with it. Hardly a nice image. But it could happen one day... Bashing ability is important.
 
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I'm not a Kochsucker but the HK 416 looks pretty good, yeah...

To be honest... I don't think there is such a thing as "best assault rifle". Whether you choose the AK or AR platform, depends on personal preference and in what kind of situation you'll use it in. The AK is a mud gun that trades accuracy for reliability, while the AR trades reliability for accuracy (roughly speaking of course. If you keep the weapon well-cleaned, both will perform very well).

The AR platform is slowly getting better though, as that clip shows. I predict that most Western countries will replace their ARs with something better within 5 - 10 years.

edit: thx for uploading, nice clip
 
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