Best and worst of suggestion - Look here before posting

[Zetsumei]

Here are some other suggestions I would like to see myself.

Having a short countdown when unpausing a game:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=38380

Removing spawnprotection once the enemy team is out of reinforcements.
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=35411

A capture system, where capturing is based on the territory hold by players rather than amount of players within the capzone. (for me the nr1 new feature that I would like added, so if were going to vote for suggestions I would like to see it included )
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=34708
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=40735

 

[VariousNames]

You're wrong sir. On some custom maps are usable AT guns. AFAIR AT guns were made by After-Hourz guys and works well.

As you mentioned, they weren't made by the developers. So perhaps your suggestion is misplaced. They neither made the AT guns, nor did they make them usable by any player.

 

[Bashenka]

IMO MGs should only be allowed to be resupplied when the MG gunner specifically ASKS for ammo (as in the voice command, "I need ammo"). It's always ridiculous at the beginning of each round to see 6 ppl chasing down the person with the MG, racing to give him more ammo when he hasn't even fired a shot yet...

 

[Capt.Cool]

As you mentioned, they weren't made by the developers. So perhaps your suggestion is misplaced.
They neither made the AT guns, nor did they make them usable by any player.

You are a nitpick!

Its totally irrelevant if its made by the DEVS or by MODS! They are in the game, and thats whats count...

I remember this discussion with stationary AT guns in the old forum BEFORE they were implemented by modders.
Many players wanted them, and many were against it.
But when the first maps with AT guns were avaliable, everybody was happy because it worked fine.
(you never played Kriegsstadt, Various???)

So the question is not WHO made them, but IF they worked in the game.
And they worked in the game - end of story.

 

[VariousNames]

You are a nitpick!

Its totally irrelevant if its made by the DEVS or by MODS! They are in the game, and thats whats count...

Wow, talk about pwnage, Cap'n.

I remember this discussion with stationary AT guns in the old forum BEFORE they were implemented by modders.
Many players wanted them, and many were against it.
But when the first maps with AT guns were avaliable, everybody was happy because it worked fine.
(you never played Kriegsstadt, Various???)

On 50pc server? Yes. I have used AT guns extensively. I feel like you're not following me.

So the question is not WHO made them, but IF they worked in the game.
And they worked in the game - end of story.

I never said they didn't work. This is not a point of contention you need to pursue. Yes, they have been retroactively modded into Ost. Yes, they work. But TWI had nothing to do with them, but most IMPORTANTLY (because, note, here, the context), TWI did not have anything to do with the decision to make every plain jane soldier able to use one.

That's why the question of who made them is the ONLY question. If TWI didn't make them, you have nothing to worry about.

 

[Zetsumei]

I never said they didn't work. This is not a point of contention you need to pursue. Yes, they have been retroactively modded into Ost. Yes, they work. But TWI had nothing to do with them, but most IMPORTANTLY (because, note, here, the context), TWI did not have anything to do with the decision to make every plain jane soldier able to use one.

That's why the question of who made them is the ONLY question. If TWI didn't make them, you have nothing to worry about.

As Berezina made it into the default map list even though its made by a custom mapper it is now an official Red Orchestra map. Due to possible legal issues that could occur most likely TWI got full owner rights over that map.

So since TWI decided to add that map in there, they decided to take the at guns in game in the same form of functioning. Every new player that will download Red Orchestra will download the AT guns.

 

[VariousNames]

That doesn't mean they made the conscious decision to make AT guns crewable by all players.

 

[Capt.Cool]

You cant lose, Various! THATS the problem...

 

[VariousNames]

You're really missing the point....

Particularly when I've conceded earlier that there are custom AT guns and that it would not be realistic to have AT guns crewable by all players.

We wouldn't be having this idiotic discussion if I had just made the qualification that there are custom AT guns in Ost, which is something you've been parading all over me while I facepalm in misery.

Yes, I've played Kriegstadt, now for ****'s sake, drop it already.

For instance, I know there's a buried Panther in the middle of the map, that AT troops spawn with 2 Fausts, MGs spawn with 1 42 belt, and there's a PaK43 behind a hill past Moltke bridge....

 

[Apos]

So tell me what AT class crew can do when their gun has been destroyed? They can stay behind with pistol or wait in next AT even whole round for enemy?

 

[Napoleon Blownapart]

if the Tiger I is added into the game... we must have a gear shift so the engine can be on but not in gear so the turret on the tiger can turn faster

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=12169&highlight=turret+traverse+rate

 

[VariousNames]

So tell me what AT class crew can do when their gun has been destroyed? They can stay behind with pistol or wait in next AT even whole round for enemy?

Same thing a tank crew does when their tank is destroyed.

 

[Apos]

Same thing a tank crew does when their tank is destroyed.

But you're missing some facts. Tanks get respawn and go back to action, AT gun dont.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

Same thing a tank crew does when their tank is destroyed.

d'oh of course!

like zets pointed out, yes when Berezina was added in as a stock map, AT guns became part of the "official" game. but also remember, similarly when BlackdayJuly was added as a stock map, the custom Panzerkampfwagen became an "official" vehicle. so, with that i have to agree with variousnames that it was a poor decision by TW to allow all infantry to crew AT guns. when they made Berezina a stock map and the AT guns became "official" content, they should have added an "artillery gunner" role as an "official" role. especially since when they made BDJ a "stock" map, the custom "artillery observer" role became an "official" role just as all the other content in that map, like the Panzerkampfwagen for example, became official content.

so, imo, if there's going to be AT guns added for HOS, whether stationary or mobile, they should only be crewable by a designated class (artillery gunner), just like tankers using tanks and squad leaders using radios. give him a rifle/carbine/smg maybe a sidearm and set maybe 2 "crew" slots to man 2 crew postitions for each gun available. hopefully this mistake is not made again.

 

[VariousNames]

But you're missing some facts. Tanks get respawn and go back to action, AT gun dont.

Yea-ah, that's kind of an issue. Particularly considering that AT guns are not self-propelled.

Honestly, I think a respawn of a static AT gun is in order, call me nuts.

We can just pertend an HT or an AT crew dragged it there, eh?

 

[RedGuardist]

So tell me what AT class crew can do when their gun has been destroyed? They can stay behind with pistol or wait in next AT even whole round for enemy?

This is not really that relevant, but IRL AT-gun crews were armed with rifles or carbines. Not with pistols.

 

[Capt.Cool]

...and that it would not be realistic to have AT guns crewable by all players.

...they should have added an "artillery gunner" role as an "official" role.
just like tankers using tanks and squad leaders using radios.

Your argumentation is ill-conceived!

Because driving a Halftrack/ammocarrier requieres special training, too! Same as you need a special training to drive a tank!
IRL the everyday grunt could not drive a HT! But in RO every one can do it...

So if you are consequent in your argumentation, you have to ask for a special HT driver class, too!

Do ya really want that? I think no...



BTW, good idea for the tigertank, Napoleon!
I added that under the team-tanking.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

Your argumentation is ill-conceived!

Because driving a Halftrack/ammocarrier requieres special training, too! Same as you need a special training to drive a tank!
IRL the everyday grunt could not drive a HT! But in RO every one can do it...

So if you are consequent in your argumentation, you have to ask for a special HT driver class, too!

Do ya really want that? I think no...



BTW, good idea for the tigertank, Napoleon!
I added that under the team-tanking.

please do your research next time. the very reason WHY halftracks were introduced and widely used (before eventually being somewhat replaced by all wheeled vehicles) was because they were extremely easy to drive. if you could drive a car, you could drive a halftrack, meaning yes, it is accurate that any random infantryman could opperate a halftrack.

The main advantage of half-tracks over wheeled vehicles is that the tracks reduce the vehicle's overall ground pressure and give it greater mobility over soft terrain like mud and snow, while they do not require the complex steering mechanisms of fully tracked vehicles, relying instead on their front wheels to direct the vehicle, augmented in some cases by track braking controlled by the steering wheel.

a few sources in case you doubt me.

[URL]http://www.answers.com/topic/half-track [/URL]
http://ww2f.com/information-requests/33353-half-track-question.html

and if you're wondering about the soviet's universial carriers, yes, they too had steering wheels.

so anymore takers to attempt to refute my arguement for artillery gunners?

 

[Zetsumei]

In reallife an arty gunner would always stay with his AT gun. and move with it.

I do not think its feasible to let someone spawn right on the action next to some AT gun. As then once someone dies he could nearly immediately respawn in pretty much the same location.

So either someone should spawn outside of the action next to an AT gun and wait till the action gets to him, this would be the most realistic but nobody would want to wait for that to happen.

Or force the class to walk together with the infantry towards the at gun, which isn't too realistic either as he should at all times be close to the at gun. But primarily in an on line game the biggest chance is that if someone walks with the infantry that he simply will not use the AT gun at all, but will just fight as a rifleman.

People currently only use AT guns, if they happen to be close to it at the exact right moment. An AT gun in real-life would pretty much always be manned, and the chance of that happening in game with a special class is pretty slim.

So I would find it more realistic that at times of an attack an at gun is actually manned. Than having empty at guns because the special at gun class happens to take pot shots with his rifle.

In clan matches I could see that specialized AT gun classes would work, but in public I highly doubt it. Just like I doubt that specialized ammo carrier classes would work well.

If AT classes would actually result in those classes utilizing the AT guns as well as it does now when everybody can man it. Then I would have no issues with specialized AT gun classes.

But I think that the lack of mobility of AT guns, and them always spawning at the same locations makes them unfavourable to use. Actually towing an AT gun during front line fighting is generally not realistic either.

 

[VariousNames]

Any idiot could also operate a machine gun, at least in the basic sense.

You set up the bipod (i.e. drop it on a flat surface), put the stock in your shoulder, aim at a target, and hold down the trigger.

I wouldn't know necessarily how to reload it or where the barrel swap is, etc, but I make the assumption that most national militaries make it a point to train their soldiers in more weapons than the ones they were issued....

And I'm sure with a little bit of trial and error you could figure out how to reload one, i.e. open the hatch, slap a mag on there, pull the charge handle...

The reason they gave special training to MG crews was because it was a very specialized role requiring an extreme level of competency. I'd be willing to bet the Russian MG training was nowhere near as rigorous.