Battlefield experience

[Sieg]

I was thinking it would be good to have a similar but more realistic system of battlefield experience to the Wolfenstein:Enemy Territory promotion system.

Don't get me wrong, ET is about as far from realism as you can get with regards to WWII shooters but some elements of the promotion system made sense.

How about being rewarded for efficient killing/capping objectives by being promoted ("Congratulations on your promotion Herr Feldwebel" - ET stylee) where by your name, when seen by teammates, has a rank/rank symbol next to it and you are rewarded by faster reload time or the ability to mark artillery targets/call them in on the radio (atm only squad leader can do so), only receive a pistol when made a junior officer or even suffer from less suppression than inexperienced or less-aggressive soldiers etc.???

I realise that this may well have been suggested before (or even thought of by the devs) but i tried the forum search and found nothing similar...

 

[Phoenix-D]

No. No. 1000 times NO.

I don't mean to be insulting, but I think these kinds of systems ruin games. What you're doing is rewarding the better players, meaning they do even better. This is *backwards*. Its like giving a golf pro a better handicap than someone who just started playing.

Plus it makes join-in-progress almost impossible, since you have to deal with leveled-up people. If progress is persistant, it soon becomes impossible for new players to catch up.

The only way I'd support something like this is if all benefits were lost when you died. Because, you know, the experienced character is now pushing up daisies!

 

[[5.SS]Pzgr.Zay]

The only way I'd support something like this is if all benefits were lost when you died. Because, you know, the experienced character is now pushing up daisies!

Your daisy pushing level is now at 17.

 

[Sieg]

Plus it makes join-in-progress almost impossible, since you have to deal with leveled-up people. If progress is persistant, it soon becomes impossible for new players to catch up.

My suggestion is NOT about giving people insane advantages over n00bies like in ET. It is to do with realistic rewards that complement the team. You want realism? Well some soldiers are better, more-efficient soldiers than others especially depending on experience and would be faster at reloading and could have more useful skills that benefit the team.

This also makes sense for Tank crews - surely an efficient crew who work well together and achieve a good kill-rate would become faster at reloading?

+ This experience could be reset after every map instead of holding on to it for the entire cycle of maps on the server.

 

[Rameusb5]

The experience you're talking about is already in the game. As a PLAYER, you get better at the game as you play it more. So no need to add artificial bonuses.


I know it's tempting to give players rewards like this, but IMHO RO simply doesn't need it. The learning curve is steep enough. Mastering the game is the reward in and of itself.


I played Wolf:ET and admit that it had some fun stuff in it, and the reward/experience system was interesting. That being said, it was, as you mentioned, pretty far from reality.

 

[Teq]

Ive allready posted an idea of experience:
It can be view at this thread:

http://www.redorchestragame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12066&highlight=experience+points

In my opinion Experience points should be added to support teamwork only.
The current point system give individual scores, rewarding mostly killing and capping and giving ammo (and a few others) which is ok.
At the time being people rush in a die, and the whole team is suffering without anyone knowing who is bleeding all the reinforcements and who is camping outside the capzones.

So there should also be added a rewardsystem that gives those who do care for their lives and at the same time dont camp a benefit over those who dont.

In BF2 the reward system is not working, as nobody cares for their lives.
The reward system must be worked out so that it cannot be exploited and that it reward strictly those who are caring about their lives as well as their team.

ANy other system I feel is wasted and arcadish.

 

[piller]

No thanks, its something that makes the strong stronger and the weak weaker. A higher ranked player's main advantage is his ability to make good decisions on the battle field which can only be simulated by the player himself.

If anything, it should be cosmetic only - like choosing the finnish on your rifle ie. light/dark wood.

 

[undaunted]

ide like if this was implemented but u gain experience/upgrades alot faster then average and loose them all uppon death.

 

[Solo4114]

NO.

We do NOT need the abomination of "stats" and the problems they bring coming in from BF2. If that's your cup of tea, there's plenty of BF2 servers to play on. Leave that crap out of this game.

You the player learn. NOT your little in-game avatar. YOU. You neither need nor deserve added bonuses to ANYTHING. All that does is create problems. Leave it out of this game.

 

[Bullitt]

this has been mad talked about and is a horrible idea

 

[Kozuth]

But the Promotion idea i liked.

But the Promotion idea i liked.

If ppl would get promoted to corperal and so on.. Just for fun because then u see who is a noob and whos not. And its more fun to kill experienced ppl then noobs.
Best regards Kozuth

 

[Solo4114]

Who cares if someone's a "noob" or not? Besides, mechanical tracking of things like kills doesn't tell you who's good at the game and who isn't.

The game doesn't model how a good commander will set artillery BETWEEN the enemy spawn and the cap zone so as to DELAY the enemy from entering, rather than outright kill them.

The game doesn't model how a good team player may provide suppressive/covering fire for another even if he doesn't hit the enemy.

The game doesn't model how a player may distract an enemy tank so a friendly combat engineer can satchel it, even at the cost of the first player's life.

The game doesn't model how a player who lies hidden at a forward position can announce to friendlies stationed back farther what enemies are approaching, thereby giving his team essential intel and ability to prepare.


And yet, if we did "points" or "promotions" or "stat tracking" or anything of the sort, the people who do this would all be considered "noobs" for not having a high enough rank/score.

Once again, it doesn't matter how good a shot you are or how many leet kills you got in a round. If your team ain't in the cap zones, your team loses. Period. If your team loses then all your vaunted skillzorz are meaningless.

 

[PermenentMarker]

I was thinking it would be good to have a similar but more realistic system of battlefield experience to the Wolfenstein:Enemy Territory promotion system.

Don't get me wrong, ET is about as far from realism as you can get with regards to WWII shooters but some elements of the promotion system made sense.

How about being rewarded for efficient killing/capping objectives by being promoted ("Congratulations on your promotion Herr Feldwebel" - ET stylee) where by your name, when seen by teammates, has a rank/rank symbol next to it and you are rewarded by faster reload time or the ability to mark artillery targets/call them in on the radio (atm only squad leader can do so), only receive a pistol when made a junior officer or even suffer from less suppression than inexperienced or less-aggressive soldiers etc.???

I realise that this may well have been suggested before (or even thought of by the devs) but i tried the forum search and found nothing similar...

Not that the idea is bad... actually I really like the idea... HOWEVER...

NO !

Reason for the Capital NO is because it will provoke way too many complications and it is also one of the things that make BF2 **** like hell.

-Idea requires to have steam or a Massive super expensive super powerful server that will be centralized(not server specific), track down EVERYTHING... every kill made by every single user... that will double the loading time for everyone to connect and get authenticated and tracked by that server...
On top of things, its a lot of work when there are obviously higher priorities.


-Idea will encourage everyone to be a stat whore.
Many people will play more for themselves then for the team.



As I said... I like the general idea... but it will bring up many problems.

 

[Isaak Johnson]

I see an idea like this becoming a very successful mutator, but not a permanent addition to RO.

Even though it does make sence that a soldier who has been on the battlefield longer will gain experience in some way, but I dont think that it would be appropriate for RO because battlefield experience like that is usually seen in a solder after multiple battles, in RO you only fight battle one at a time and usually you die enough times that you will most likely never reach any goal like that, let alone hold it for very long.

I can also see how adding somthing like that would be a good way to encourage players to stay alive, but I dont think it would have the right results.

Lastly, there are allready quite a few palyers with MAD skills, we dont need to make it harder for new players.

BUT, if someone mensioned in the forums that they were going to create a "Battlefield Experience" mutator, they would totally have my support.

 

[Sieg]

I actually don't care about this idea anymore, tbh it was just a suggestion.

However it annnoys me that everyone thinks my idea was all about stats/points /'l33t sk1llz'!

I love RO precisely because there seem to be almost no Counter-Strike kiddes typing 'pwned' and all that ****e.

It was simply about having some limited and very realistic rewards for good teamplay/tactical ability that would benefit the team and NOT a scoring/points system that requires Stats tables etc.

Saying that, the current points system we have is equally pointless and nobody complains about that much - why not just do away with points all-together? Because if there is no benefit to having a score, then why have one?

 

[Teq]

People are more conserned about criticizing than trying to find how to implement an idea.
Its EASY to condemn ideas and find negative sides than to find the benefit in something.

Experience CAN and WILL work, if it is implemented CORRECTLY.

FIrstly I want to say that an experience system does NOT have to make the stronger stronger and the weaker weaker.
Its a matter how implementation and what you give rewards & punishments for.

I think this gameplay can be added in a RO Campaign mode, where the results of one map will have consequences for the next map...
IE the reinforcements played at MAP #1 will influence the reinforcements on MAP #2.

Experience should be given for any act that benefit the TEAM and NOT the individual.
This means that the whole team recieve the same reward based on the TOTAL score and the end of the round.

In this way, the weak will recive the same score as the strong, and there will be no discrimination.

To avoid experienced players to joining the same team you can give the experienced players extra points for joining weaker players, and less points if he joins a team with many skilled players.... (just a thought)

You shoud ask questions like?

1) How can you stop the weaker being weaker and the stronger being stronger?

2) What can be done to avoid exploits (if there is a stats server)
a) what kinda exploits can be done?

3) How can we avoid the experient players from joining the same team?

4) What actions should there be given rewards & punishments for?

If you have better questions or have answers for them, please post.
I think this idea can have alot of fun in it!

 

[Rrralphster]

Experience is gained by playing the game, not by scoring. No need for artificial experience and "extra's" for people with high scores.
Scores don't matter. Winning the map matters (ok... some people get a kick out of "scores").
I wouldn't mind if you could "gain" ranks during a round or map though, but no goodies, please.

Plus I don't think it is a good idea to give people who are allready doing great an even bigger advantage

Exploitation is my biggest concern though. People will glitch, hack etc to get the goodies.
Global stats or "ranks" make it even worse (no need for an example I guess...).

 

[Teq]

Experience is gained by playing the game, not by scoring. No need for artificial experience and "extra's" for people with high scores.
Scores don't matter. Winning the map matters (ok... some people get a kick out of "scores").
I wouldn't mind if you could "gain" ranks during a round or map though, but no goodies, please.

Plus I don't think it is a good idea to give people who are allready doing great an even bigger advantage

Exploitation is my biggest concern though. People will glitch, hack etc to get the goodies.
Global stats or "ranks" make it even worse (no need for an example I guess...).

I think it would be good if you read all the posts, or atleast the few last posts on the thread

Yes you gain experience by playing, but some people enjoy having a higher goal or ideal for their playing.

Like in martial arts you have belts.
In reality belts doesnt say much about your real standard when it comes to real deal, but gradings may help motivating you to carry on on the early levels.
So even if gradings/ranks are wasted for the skilled, they are still motivating the beginners and medium levels.

Secondly, rewards can be given for winning the round , and not just for individual actions...
I'd like to see 75% experience for winning the round, and 25% for individual performance.

 

[Teq]

Example on experience system

Example on experience system

Here is an example on a beneficial Experience system that
1) Does not make the weaker weaker and stronger stronger
2) Encourage teamwork and winning the round
3) Is hard to exploit
4) COunters team stacking.

Basic Individual performance:
Staying alive = 0.5 xp for each 1% of total round time.
Killing = +0.5 xp
Death = -2xp
Teamkill = -5 xp

Basic Team performance:
winning the round = 25 xp
Supply MG = 2xp
Assaulting/defending capzones = 5xp

Class bonuses (added to basic perf):
SMG's = +2 xp for capping/defending capzones
Bolt/semi actions = +1xp for killing
Commander = +5 xp for each arty strike. 0.5 xp pr arty kill.
AT team = Destroying heavy arm +4xp, Light +2xp.
Engineer = Destroying wall +4xp
Tank crew = +2 heavy arm, +1 light arm
Sniper = +2xp for kills, +5 for killing commander/tank crew.
--------------------------------------------------
Ranking effects:

Group spirit vs suppression effect:
An experienced soldier will boost the fighting sprit of soldiers connected to him.
In game this means that each individual that keeps within approx 75m will have a slight reduction on their suppression blur/weapon shake under fire.
The higher the rank of your mate, the less blur/weapon shake you will experience.
And the more players connected, the better the results.
This will encourage players to work in groups, move towards the same goals, wait for eachother and stop rambo behaviour.
NB! Note that the benefits ONLY applies for groups, NOT the individual soldier!

Group sprit vs reloads and stamina:
As members of a group will be less affected by fear, they are likely to increase performance in actions such as reloads and stamina.
The more players connected the higher the performance within that group.
Players in a group will therefore less likely to fatique and will reload slightly quicker than an disconnected player operating by him self.
Note that this system will encourage Weaker players to stick with more experienced players.

Group kills vs individual kills:
By connecting to a group, the player will gain extra 0.5 xp for kills.

Exceptions:
Snipers and MG teams will be connected as a group upto 150-200m.
But they do not gain the extra 0.5 for kills.
Commanders benefit the group by will add 15% extra spirit to all within 75% in addition to his rank.
----------------------------------------------------------
Ranks/effect:
0 XP = Conscript = +5% group spirit, 1% group reload/stamina
600Xp = Recruit = +10% group spirit, 3% Group reload/stamina
1200xp = Regular = +15% group spirit, 5% Group reload/stamina
2400xp = Veteran = +20% group spirit, 7% Group reload/stamina
4800xp = Crack = +25% group spirit . 10% Group reload/stamina
9600xp = Elite = +30% Group spirit, 13% group reload/stamina
---------------------------------------------------------

Example:
If 3 soldiers stay by the rank recruit, Regular and Crack connect, they will benefit from the following values:
Group spirit = 50% less suppression effects under fire.
Grpi

 

[Rrralphster]

I like the fact that you want to encourage teamplay.
But I think that it shouldn't be based on people's scores but on actuall teamwork.

The idea to give a group of soldiers "morale" like boosts is a good one as far as I'm concerned.
Slightly faster reloads, less influence of supression effects, faster capping
etc. are indeed some very good ideas.

But I still don't like the idea of rewarding individual people for scores.
And most certainly if the boost carries over to the next round.
Mainly because it doesn't encourage teamplay/teamwork.

Another thing I'm worried about is that some maps will become unplayable because they have certain choke points which force the defending team into a group.
The way people respawn (specially for the attacking team) makes it extremely hard because they first need to link up with the rest of the team and in the meantime the defenders have the advantage.
Take Rakowice for instance. It's allready pretty hard, if the defenders know what they are doing, to cap the forward position (cap 1).
Taking the bunker or the station on Basovka would become impossible.

It could work if the boost was limited though.
Minimum amount of people to get the boost, for instance 3 or 4 people. And a maximum amount of people as well. Something like 5 or 6 or even 7 people. If more people join you don't get a bigger boost.