Balancing the zerker. My suggestions...

[mrsirr]

Ahhhhhh I see.
Would be sorta wierd to have something like that after all this time and I doubt it'll happen, but it'd be something to keep zerkers from making so much gosh darned money.

 

[Althamus]

Do we really need explanations about how weapons work?

And no.

How would it work ingame? The trader is hardly going to take your katana out the back to her smithy.

And a berserker is one of the classes most likely to end up kiting out the wave. What if his team dies W10 HoE about 5 mins in, and he ends up killing 300 zeds solo. Hard enough, until his weapons all break because he can't get to a trader, and he ends up trying to kite the rest of the wave with his 9mm and all the ammo boxes which will only fill his 9mm.

 

[mrsirr]

Well other classes tend to die when the whole team dies 5 mintues in with 300 zeds left. I feel that the zerker should too.

 

[Althamus]

But if you get a good [whatever] you can kite the wave out. I've clutched as every single class, with varying degrees of success. But having a class which is impossible to clutch with annoys me. Having the zerker only able to kill 200 zeds, and then that's it is just dumb.

 

[ArcheKruz]

I'm personally fine with +40% resistance if it is only applied to melee damage. Firebug is resistant to fire, demo to explosives yet zerker magically gets resistance to everything. Restrict it to melee only and he can still tank a fp, but husks and sirens can hurt him just like every other non resistant perk.

I really like this idea, adds a bigger element of risk to engaging Husks and Sirens. I am not down with lowering the Berzerker's carrying capacity because big sharpened hunks of metal are far more unwieldy than guns. Zerks are supposed to be a lot stronger physically, and so would be just as capable, if not more at carrying gear. The issue here is that the melee weapons just don't have enough weight to them. You can carry your Tier 3 melee weapon, and offperk another Tier 3 weapon like the Husk Gun with it, or substitute the Buzzsaw Bow with an M32 Grenade Launcher, and suddenly you're an FP killing machine, but without the weakness to Scrakes that Demolitions have.

My idea would be to increase the carry weight of each of the melee weapons, so that Zerkers are more limited in their choices of ranged weaponry. Here's my idea :

• Machete - 1 Block (The weight on this is fine, as it is important to have this as a 1-block stuffer for off-perk loadouts.)
• Axe - 6 Blocks (Pretty damn hefty, but not as hefty as the bigger weapons they get.)
• Katana - 5 Blocks (There is no way in hell that a Katana, one of the ****tiest overhyped types of swords ever made would be as nimble to use as an SMG. The only saving grace it should have over the Axe is the superior balance, hence why it's 1-block lighter.)
• Claymore, Dwarves!? Axe and Scythe - 8 Blocks (These are big ****ing weapons, and so should be weighted accordingly. The Scythe may be lighter, but it's more awkward to use than the Dwarven Axe and the Claymore.)
• Buzzsaw Bow - 9 Blocks (Why the **** is this weapon considered to be 2 blocks lighter than the normal Crossbow? It fires heavier projectiles, FFS!)

Eliminate the AoE of the Axe, narrow the attack cone of the Katana, Claymore and Dwarves!? Axe, and reduce the price of those weapons to half it was, and you might have a more balanced perk. The only thing left is balancing the Buzzsaw Bow, and that would involve reducing the base damage to 400, and reducing their perk bonuses for this particular ranged weapon to 60% instead of the 100% damage bonus that Zerks currently get across the board. That way, Zerks would have to hit a Scrake on the face in order to stun them, and the weapon would be more suited to the role they should be covering ; Trash-Clearing.

 

[mrsirr]

But if you get a good [whatever] you can kite the wave out. I've clutched as every single class, with varying degrees of success. But having a class which is impossible to clutch with annoys me. Having the zerker only able to kill 200 zeds, and then that's it is just dumb.

Well I would hope it would be more than 200 zeds; I got the idea you'd have to maintain it every 3 or so waves.
Of course it would also give the berserker incentive to rely on more than just katana or anything like that. So running out of sword wouldn't really be a problem if you were willing to invest in more than one weapon like most classes tend to do.
Of course, again, I'm not saying this will be implemented, I can almost garauntee at this point that it won't be.

 

[Vicious Bug]

some nice suggestion but lots of unrealistic ones too...
Zerker is like the brute who can take and inflict more physical damage than others classes. so he souldn't have less carying weight (he is like more muscular), however, he should loose speed (or stamania) whenever he carry a non melee weapon (out or not) exept light weight ones like handguns (2 slot or less)

also, adding stamania is a great idea, to all classes(only zerker would be stupid), but zerker would loose stamania faster when attaking because firing a gun take less energy than swigning a sword. while commandoes can run longer distances while carying assault (comandoes need a small buff too, maybe increased speed when aiming and crouching,)

Katana are usually weak and fragile swords that need a powerfull swings to cut tru hummans bones, maybe a little break gauge that decrease effecacity of katana over time, like when at zero zerker with a katana do same damage (but still swing faster) as other classes using a new katana.

chainsaw NEED a buff, but slow down a lot, but insta kill small trash with primary, like a shield. with secondary, should be faster, to melee lock scrakes on normal and hard, but not on sui and HoE

Each classes have easy zeds and hard zeds to kill, the only hard one to kill is the siren, i think zerkers should be unable to stun scrakes, or make scrakes AI better so they dodges zerkers hits with their chainsaw. that would be awsome

what this game really need is better AI, damn they are HUMAN CLONES, they need to stop acting like brain-less zombies. make some zeds smarter, make the stalker actually ambush you, make crawlers hidding in dark areas then silently jump on your back to bite your legs, make scrakes protecting himself with his chainsaw, make siren screaming to protect other zeds from explosives, even if there is no one near her...this would require more coordination and strategy to defeat em, like real clones.

 

[mrsirr]

make crawlers hidding in dark areas then silently jump on your back to bite your legs

Have you ever had 10 or so crawlers spawn right on you?
Instant death.
As for the others, cannonically, they kindof are brain-dead, that's why they are killing everybody, their brains are wacked up with poo-brain so they like feeling and inflicting pain.
Also the smaller ones like the way people taste.

Can't say I blame them.

 

[Althamus]

Well I would hope it would be more than 200 zeds; I got the idea you'd have to maintain it every 3 or so waves.

200 zeds IS 3 waves.

In a typical 6man game, you'll get maybe 200-300 zeds that spawn. This means that each player will average at 30-45 kills per wave.

The problem comes when all your team die a minute in, and there're still 250+ zeds left for you to kill by yourself.

However, in a typical 6man 10W game, you'll kill maybe 700 zeds per player.

See how the numbers make things ahrder?

 

[ArcheKruz]

he should loose speed (or stamania) whenever he carry a non melee weapon (out or not) exept light weight ones like handguns (2 slot or less)

Zerkers have something like that in ScrN Balance, and it kinda works, though it doesn't really make sense that carrying a weapon meant to be portable and less unwieldy would slow down a perk that is designed to carry unwieldy sharp hunks of metal around. I am thinking the one solution when offperking as a Zerker that makes sense is accuracy and recoil handling. They should be less accurate than perks that are specialized in shooting things, and they should be less experienced in handling recoil.

 

[JD0x0]

To balance the zerker.
Option 1: Do nothing. The class is fairly balanced IMO, the only advantage is that you don't have to spend money on ammo, if you're using melee weapons. Zerkers are weak against husks, sirens, and FP's can mess you up pretty bad, especially if you don't have a good ranged weapon to deal with them. Crawlers can be a huge PITA, melee attacks will often miss, because they are so low, and on harder difficulties, they can kill you extremely fast, if you have multiple crawlers on you. Try solo on HOE, and then see how 'unbalanced' you think the berserker is, when you have two FP's raging on you, with 5 crawlers up your ***.
Option 2: Add weapon repair for melee. Damaged weapons suffer from damage penalties. Melee weapons CANNOT break. They lose their edge and suffer damage loss. Certain weapons damage more quickly, such as Katana, due to it's very sharp edge, it gets damaged more easily. While others, like the fire axe maintain their damage for longer. Standard knife, is not affected by this.

 

[mrsirr]

Melee weapons CANNOT break

This :0
Someone had already mentioned it I just forgot; when reaching their limit, the weapons wouldn't break (because sectional density has little to do with how fine an edge is) but you would still need to maintain them to retain full effectiveness. There would be no claymores and fireaxes splintering into little bits when they killed one too many zeds.

 

[Althamus]

Option 2: Add weapon repair for melee. Damaged weapons suffer from damage penalties. Melee weapons CANNOT break. They lose their edge and suffer damage loss. Certain weapons damage more quickly, such as Katana, due to it's very sharp edge, it gets damaged more easily. While others, like the fire axe maintain their damage for longer. Standard knife, is not affected by this.

I could live with this version of melee repairing. At 100% repaired, they're as they are now, at 0% they are as effective as used offperk. Slight question mark for things like the fire axe no longer being able to stun scrakes.

he should loose speed (or stamania) whenever he carry a non melee weapon (out or not) exept light weight ones like handguns (2 slot or less)

[/i]
You do know this is built in right? When the zerk has a non-melee out, he runs at normal speed?

 

[ArcheKruz]

the only advantage is that you don't have to spend money on ammo, if you're using melee weapons.

...and you have 40% damage resistance, can't be grabbed by clots, enjoy a 100% damage bonus on perked weapons instead of the usual 60%, melee weapons can now cut through multiple enemies each swing, and let's not forget the Dwarves!? Axe and the Buzzsaw Bow, which give the Zerkers an unprecedented potential to kite raging Scrakes and Fleshpounds as well as deal stupid Scrake-stunning amounts of damage at range. The list goes on.

Zerkers are weak against husks, sirens,

There is nothing stopping them from off-perking. In fact, the Flare Revolver is the best off-perk tool for eliminating various threats, especially Sirens, since they have a weakness to fire weapons.

and FP's can mess you up pretty bad, especially if you don't have a good ranged weapon to deal with them.

Bull****, all you need is an Axe. Chop at his face, make him whiff his counter attack, count 5 steps, rinse, repeat. If you do this correctly, the FP will never rage.

Crawlers can be a huge PITA, melee attacks will often miss, because they are so low, and on harder difficulties, they can kill you extremely fast, if you have multiple crawlers on you. Try solo on HOE, and then see how 'unbalanced' you think the berserker is, when you have two FP's raging on you, with 5 crawlers up your ***.

You have 2 options, off-perk an Mk23, this should be a given since this is the best weapon to fill 2 spare blocks. Or git gud with timing.

Option 2: Add weapon repair for melee. Damaged weapons suffer from damage penalties. Melee weapons CANNOT break. They lose their edge and suffer damage loss. Certain weapons damage more quickly, such as Katana, due to it's very sharp edge, it gets damaged more easily. While others, like the fire axe maintain their damage for longer. Standard knife, is not affected by this.

I had a simillar idea written up.

 

[vealck]

Zerkers are weak against husks, sirens

Yeah? Try surviving two surprise sirens screaming as any other perk than zerk. 40% damage reduction, rings any bells?

and FP's can mess you up pretty bad, especially if you don't have a good ranged weapon to deal with them.

Babby's first zerk?

Try solo on HOE, and then see how 'unbalanced' you think the berserker is

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=84342 Now try that with any other perk using its lowest grade weapon.

 

[Althamus]

Sirens, since they have a weakness to fire weapons.

Citation? I'll agree that flare guns work wonders on them, but I didn't realise they have an actual weakness to fire like bloats do.

 

[nutterbutter]

The class is fairly balanced IMO, the only advantage is that you don't have to spend money on ammo, if you're using melee weapons. Zerkers are weak against husks, sirens, and FP's can mess you up pretty bad, especially if you don't have a good ranged weapon to deal with them. Crawlers can be a huge PITA, melee attacks will often miss, because they are so low, and on harder difficulties, they can kill you extremely fast, if you have multiple crawlers on you. Try solo on HOE, and then see how 'unbalanced' you think the berserker is, when you have two FP's raging on you, with 5 crawlers up your ***.

You may want to rethink that.

 

[SkullFinder123]

You may want to rethink that.

Balance? It'll never happen to the berderper

 

[MRU]

A friend was derping around as Zerker in 3rd person mode on HOE. He played alone until wave 8. This is how hard it is to play Zerk...

Killing Floor - Some 3rd person fun on West London - YouTube

 

[nutterbutter]

Balance? It'll never happen to the berderper

I know that. I've accepted that. But dude, I even quoted to what I was responding.