Balancing the zerker. My suggestions...

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Althamus

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 13, 2012
1,287
21
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The only times husks are a problem is when there're 3+ of them in a line, and by firing they keep jumping each other around, making it pretty much impossible to melee them, and extremely hard to hit them, especially on HoE where 3 or so husks keep up a pretty much constant stream of fireballs.

Solution lies in kiting to the side, so you have 3 husks in a perpendicular line to you. Then stand on a car and pull out your LAR. Problem solved.
 

Arblarg

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 24, 2012
1,394
6
0
Illinois, U.S.
Spoiler!
Spoiler!
 

Amber Glass

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 19, 2011
902
33
0
and berserker is the easiest class to learn, and easiest to play as in a kiting scenario, and the most forgiving for playing sloppy and making mistakes that would ordinarily cause a wipe.
 

Undedd Jester

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 31, 2009
3,059
881
0
Sheffield, England
Limiting perks with weapons isn't how Kiling Floor works. It has always been that any perk can buy any weapon as long as they have the physical space to carry it, and I feel thats one thing that makes killing floor unique. It jsut simply wouldn't work to say "Everyone else can buy whatever weapons they like, but the Berserker can only carry 1 melee weapon."

I think you'll need a different idea there.

Speed needs a nerf, its just too fast. 20% is plenty.

Clot grab would bring him nicely in line too, perhaps have it so that he is resistant and merely slowed down to normal speed for a second by a clot, or something of an equivelent. Perhaps even make it so the Zerker can jump out of the clot grab like other perks used to be able to.

Ofc the easy solution is to turn him back into what he was pre beta. 20% movement speed and 25% resistance was fine. The only thing that really needed looking at was the chainsaw.

Sadly the Zerker isn't the only problem with KF right now. Much as I loved the game, I very much feel like the spirit of the game is gone.
 
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TheMutant

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 31, 2012
556
4
0
Germany
What do you think about removing all the damage resistances from the zerker's vest instead of making it totally inaccessible. So the 40% (80%) only apply to the actual health of the berzerker.
Then we have one perk that has a better vest (Medic) and one perk that has "better" health (Berzerker).

This makes tanking as zerk less comfortable and the vest more valuable resulting that zerks rather tend to run instead of camping.

Moreover, I think that the anti-clot-grab feature can totally be removed from the berzerker perk.
 

MRU

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 27, 2012
133
0
0
G
Removing the vest and adding extra health is an interesting idea, Though I don
 

poosh

Grizzled Veteran
Jan 6, 2011
3,389
326
83
I'm thinking about idea to remove any damage resistance except Bloat Bile, raising Berserker's max health instead to 170 (~ 100/0.6). Unarmored Zerkerstill still will be able to receive same amount of damage (but no resistance on vest!), but it would be much harder for him to restore health by his own.
 

Althamus

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 13, 2012
1,287
21
0
I like the price of the axe at the minute, because it's a melee weapon that can be bought offperk (buying any of the others bar prochete offperk are too pricey to be often feasible).

Also, I don't like the idea of increasing the zerker's health. All the characters have 100 HPs at the moment, and I'm not keen on the idea of making one have more health. Especially if he still has his DR.
Just... lower the DR on him?

tbh, I'm still along with the idea of making L4-5 zerker L6 zerker, and space out the upgrades accrodingly. That'd be a good start and get him 80% right.
 

Blockbot

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 25, 2011
1,586
661
0
lawl.

idk why you guys are complaining about the zerker. cuz zerker infact got worse clearing time (if 6man-solo) then a medic.

and I can clear a map 3x (-+) times faster with any perk with damage bonus than a zerker. any game with full zerker squad usually take 1.5-2 hours in a 10wave game. but with a team that is camping and using ranged weapons with ranged perks. the clearing time of a 10wave game is about 30-45minutes....
 

Althamus

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 13, 2012
1,287
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cuz zerker infact got worse clearing time (if 6man-solo) then a medic.

Not quite sure what you mean here... I'm pretty sure it'd take longer to kill a load of zeds as a zerker than a medic but I get the general tone of your arguement.

And yea, kiting takes a lot longer than camping. The point is that what's the probability of surviving an average camping game, and an average kiting game? I'd say you're far more likely to survive the kiting games. By that argument, kiting games are easier.
 

hunter_hunted

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 10, 2010
97
7
0
UK
steamcommunity.com
TLDR; Reduce max weight, allow husk fireball to ignore damage reduction, re-examine chainsaw


Long version:

To me, the berserker is one of only two classes able to easily deal with any of the specimen types (Ignoring specific very-limited use tactics with grenades/pipes etc). The other - the sharpshooter - has the comparative drawbacks of limited ammo, reloading downtime, less speed and defences.

Instead of giving the berserker some of the same drawbacks, I prefer the approach of limiting (but not removing entirely) the effectiveness against everything it can have currently.

The idea of a weapon or weight limit (IMO weight limit would be more consistent with other perks and the spirit of the game) allows this to happen. If the weight didn't support the popular loadout of katana/axe/lar then the berserker would have to prioritise between trash clearing speed, ability to deal with the 'big ones' and crawler mop-up+husk control. Even a reduction to katana/axe/HC would mean two bodyshots per crawler, making them move up the danger list a bit. ( When I was starting out as a berserker, I remember crawlers easily being the most dangerous of the trash due to their ability to tear my armour apart when I moved in to engage them. With a one-shot sidearm, they become as trivial as gorefasts to a berserker. )

IMO the theme of 'getting close' supports the idea of damage resistance to bloats/sirens etc, but not so much husks fireball. If anything should ignore berserker resistance, it should be the long-ranged enemy (As annoying as they are, they can still be controlled by line of sight and such until they're close enough to deal with).

The maximum health instead of DR (Or alternatively reduce self-healing) would promote teamwork, but could equally just lead to even longer games.

The chainsaw is mostly considered inferior right now. I've seen it used effectively for trash, but only when ignoring the lighter and easier alternative. I'd prefer a substantial buff of some kind (less movement penalty, a damage increase etc) in addition to a fuel limitation. That way it'd be an emergency/viable weapon, but not be able to be used primarily for the entire wave. The ability to altfire while keeping up a near-constant stream of primary fire is also a bit odd and should probably be looked at.

Note: Mostly referring to situations in 6man HoE as a common reference point.
 

vealck

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 19, 2009
2,815
234
0
Yeah. Lately I was thinking about limiting zerk's damage resistance to physical damage only. That way he would be just as vulnerable to sirens and husks as any other class.

Also, it seems that zerk's 'natural' resistance is called before armor when computing damage. As a proof for that: you can stand in a fire on westlondon and your armor won't be damaged at all. Pounding by FP almost doesn't damage zerk with full armor at all, and also his armor can soak more effective damage than it does for other classes (lasts for longer). Changing this mechanic to apply for health only, would make zerk a bit softer.

Now it's: incoming damage -> 40% reduction -> armor damage reduction -> damage health
Should be: incoming damage -> armor reduction -> damage health -40% (or even better, 30%)


I guess these two bits still wouldn't be enough to balance the class properly, but at least it would be a move in the right direction.
 
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Nova!

Member
Feb 23, 2013
432
8
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I just feel that the melee weapons need to have some sort of meter that makes them break if they use it to their breaking point (kind of like Armour's percentage).
 

Althamus

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 13, 2012
1,287
21
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I just feel that the melee weapons need to have some sort of meter that makes them break if they use it to their breaking point (kind of like Armour's percentage).

Eh, this leads to requiring them to be cleaned (or an impaled head removed) every few swings or so, and before you know it, it's basically a gun but without the range.

Besides, without it going highly improbably, how would this be done? Or just "magic"?
Also, would a katana fix itself when you pick up an ammo box as well?

I think there's better ways to nerf melee.
 

Nova!

Member
Feb 23, 2013
432
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Eh, this leads to requiring them to be cleaned (or an impaled head removed) every few swings or so, and before you know it, it's basically a gun but without the range.

No, I mean they work perfectly fine until they reach the breaking point.



Besides, without it going highly improbably, how would this be done? Or just "magic"?
Also, would a katana fix itself when you pick up an ammo box as well?

Do we really need explanations about how weapons work?

And no.
 

mrsirr

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 12, 2013
4,068
0
0
Over here, no not there, here.
Do we really need explanations about how weapons work?

And no.
Well no. This game isn't realistic, but it's not SuperMariobros; if they started adding senseless content that made no sense in the real world (If somebody mentions the glowing money so help me that has nothing to do with anything) then it would kinda bring the game down to another level.

I know someone is going to make a bunch of really stupid arguments against realism, so I'll be waiting for that.
 

Nova!

Member
Feb 23, 2013
432
8
18
Well no. This game isn't realistic, but it's not SuperMariobros; if they started adding senseless content that made no sense in the real world (If somebody mentions the glowing money so help me that has nothing to do with anything) then it would kinda bring the game down to another level..

But it's not really senseless. Weapons break or dull after so many uses in real life. It's not like some zany "After enough clot kills you get a special lightning attack" addition, it's just an addition that helps balance the Zerk while still being a bit realistic.
 

mrsirr

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 12, 2013
4,068
0
0
Over here, no not there, here.
And I don't mind that part so much, it was just the issue of restoring them.
Do ammunition boxes have whet stones in them?
. . .
Actually that isn't terribly nonsensical in light of other KF functions.
 

Nova!

Member
Feb 23, 2013
432
8
18
And I don't mind that part so much, it was just the issue of restoring them.
Do ammunition boxes have whet stones in them?
. . .
Actually that isn't terribly nonsensical in light of other KF functions.

But the weapons couldn't be restored with ammo boxes. That's what my "no" refers to in my original response. Of course they wouldn't break every wave, but they most likely wouldn't last through 4 or 5 waves either, depending on the difficulty and how many zeds are killed.