Balancing firebug

[Lacedaemonius]

Firebug is not used often on HoE because he relies on damage over time, and since the specimens are really fast on this difficulty, firebug is forced to hose them down to be effective therefor wasting tons of ammo. Its just a sad thruth that anything firebug does every other perk does better, apart from the various uses of firenades but you only get a handful of those.

I was going to post in that thread, but rather than derailing it I thought it would be better to create my own. What hurts about HaTeMe's post is how accurate it is, namely because of the specimens' speed advantage. What use is DoT when the specimens can kill you long before they burn out their HP?(no pun intended)

Thinking out loud here, I was wondering if the firebug could be made useful again by giving the primaries (flamethrower and husk cannon) a slowing effect based on flame damage done. Specifically, or x% of flame damage done to the specimen, the specimen is slowed down y% up to a specific threshold for y. Once the threshold has been reached the specimen snaps into the "crisp" animation. I think it could drastically increase the firebug's usefulness, especially against their arch nemeses the scrake and FP. That and it could fit much more logically with the system currently in place where either the specimen is charging at you or swatting at the invisible plague of locusts surrounding them and there's no in between. Maybe then he can be "the unbelievably powerful perk no one uses".
Thoughts?

 

[RoBoT]

I like the idea that fire slows zeds down

 

[Aze]

I like that idea a lot
It could even be made simpler than that: Burning target = Slower target. No need for the incrementing slowdown imo, that just (once again) requires rampup time. Unless it slows down really fast, but then, what's the point of it being an incrementing slowdown?
Just some food for thought about the idea ^^

 

[[UIT] Akame]

Sounds awesome. One problem might be the front specs in a mob slowing down and blocking the faster specs in the back especially in hallways where they cannot get around.

 

[Maddoxx]

Yes, slow them down! And increase firedamage!

Crisp should be dead and not multiple sprays until dead.

Also, crisp should REALLY disabilitating considering burned muscles, ligaments, nerves, etc.. Yes, yes, i know, KF is semi-realistic. Still? Make them sloooooower!!! Much!

 

[Undedd Jester]

I like the crisp effect as it is myself. If anything I only wish that the smaller specimens would crisp up sooner.

However the core problem isn't really with the Firebug. Until the overpowered classes are balanced the Firebug will still be underplayed regardless.

EDIT: Updating this, as long as the slow effect isn't ridiculous and doesn't effect Fp's, then yeah sure why not?

 

[Entangler]

I never use Firebug myself, but my understanding is that the damage over time works best as a complement for the output of other sweepers. In particular, I imagine it keeps Commandos from having to hose down headless Gorefasts.

 

[ChairmanMurder[Forge]]

Sounds awesome. One problem might be the front specs in a mob slowing down and blocking the faster specs in the back especially in hallways where they cannot get around.

I'd actually consider that an advantage. It could give the Support a few extra seconds to reload, for instance.

Or the Firebug can ignite the front ranks, which causes a buildup. And then the Demo nukes them.

 

[Lacedaemonius]

Sounds awesome. One problem might be the front specs in a mob slowing down and blocking the faster specs in the back especially in hallways where they cannot get around.

The only specimens that are fast enough that they could be drastically slowed down are a charging scrake and gorefast. The others wouldn't be drastically effected, yet as Forge said I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

 

[C_Gibby]

lolbump.

Yes, the firebug needs a buff. Not only could he be given a cool extra weapon to play with, but slowing zeds down considerably (depending on level) and crisping zeds faster (also depending on level) that will go a HUGE way to making the firebug a more viable choice.

Don't forget, the firebug's abilities will now be genuinely helpful, rather than detrimental as they are now.

 

[thresher3253]

I thought about giving some extra damage from all weapons to burning specimens, rendering the firebug more useful to the team without giving him the ability to kill entire waves, but this idea looks way better. It can be a life saver against charging gorefasts and scrakes.
And he really need another good weapon.

 

[CandleJack]

On top of moving slower, if it dealt less damage as well. Enough to make a difference, but not enough to make a Fleshpound into a clot.

Don't have it stack, or have diminishing returns if it does.

Also a faster crisp-up as you level.

 

[M3NT4L]

if firebug perk was nerfed i would honestly never use it again. right now i can mow down waves of zed.... except for the big ones. GREAT support perk but a lousy solo one. when something bigger than a gorefast comes at me, i run. sc, husk, fp, none of these can be taken down efficiently by a firebug. thats why i think it shouldnt be nerfed because it may kill alot of zed but theres a point where you just cant kill something. my only bit of support for this idea to change it is maybe lower the amount of damage it does by a little. otherwise id just be a show off class. and slowing zed down? its a FIRE based weapon not an ICE based one. how about become a little disoriented and run around like they on drugs?

 

[FieserMoep]

I love the Firebug Perk and it was the first one I have ever played but if I play on a HoE Server its not that funny to be a firebug.

Supports, Sharpshooters dominate the field, with the new weapons more than ever and Demos are incridible strong on tearing down big hordes even with the disadvanteg of their smoke.

The Fire Damage as DoT is okay but the Perk lacks some "finishing" power to kill those Zeds that reach him without wasting ammo on the already crisped ones. So what about a overcharged welding torch?

Or an secondary attack of the Flametrower that requires quite a lot of ammo but consists of an ultra hot stream that melts the Fleshpounds "Pounders" or the Chainsword of the Srace? Make it so ammo expensive that this is a "last chance" saver to help a teammate when an FP has raged but make it so expensive that it cant be used that often.

Or insted of Pipebombs he can buy some Jerrycans that can be placed and will have an effect like a stronger Firegrenade when they are shot?

What about a bag of thermite he can trow that deald incridible damage/fire damage on a single target?

Give the Firebug a Damage bonus with the Axe cuz he put a petroil towel around and sets it on fire... duno

Or make it the cheesy way and increade the Flamethrower ammo...

Atleast though it makes Fun to Play the Firebug you are outclassed even by an Medic in Terms of lethality...

 

[SalmonCubes]

Any numbers of these could be used:

1. Make Zeds 20% slower and 20% weaker when on fire.
2. Give the Flamethrower an alt fire. Consumes 10 ammo similar to the Husk Fireball, but Releases a massive wall of fire that does 2 times as much damage, and slows/weakens Zombies by 40% for the burn. Scrakes, Husks, and FP are not affected by the slow.
3. Pipebombs for Firebug become incendiary pipebombs.
4. Give the Flamethrower a different alt fire: Consumes 10 ammo to launch a puddle of napalm a short distance in front of you. Any specimen that touches it takes fire damage, and is slowed by 50% while in the puddle. Scrakes, Husks, and FP are not affected by the slow.
5. Make the fire axe have the same igniting effect as the Mac-10?

 

[FieserMoep]

Why not Change the DoT to fixed numbers so the DoT is not increasing while he has the same overal Dmg?

In Addition you can add Percentage Damage tot he fixed numbers of 1% or 2% per Second? The larger they are, the more Flesh they have, the more is burned?

So a Firebuck can prepare a FP for the Sharpshoter while he is not able to solo him.

And after the 10 Seconds the Crip effect hits and the Target takes 110% or 120% Damage from all sources?

 

[[TBG]KommandoKana]

Any numbers of these could be used:

1. Make Zeds 20% slower and 20% weaker when on fire.
2. Give the Flamethrower an alt fire. Consumes 10 ammo similar to the Husk Fireball, but Releases a massive wall of fire that does 2 times as much damage, and slows/weakens Zombies by 40% for the burn. Scrakes, Husks, and FP are not affected by the slow.
3. Pipebombs for Firebug become incendiary pipebombs.
4. Give the Flamethrower a different alt fire: Consumes 10 ammo to launch a puddle of napalm a short distance in front of you. Any specimen that touches it takes fire damage, and is slowed by 50% while in the puddle. Scrakes, Husks, and FP are not affected by the slow.
5. Make the fire axe have the same igniting effect as the Mac-10?

1. Definite yes.
2 4. I think I made a thread about a new altfire for FB. Anything new is welcome.
3. Only effective against massive horde of trash. Rages FP and SC.
4. Maybe Fire Axe should do double damage to burning targets like Axtinquisher in TF2.

 

[FrozenFireBug]

I'd make Gorefasts and anything lesser (health wise) crisp up at twice the rate they do now.

 

[Aze]

This is my opinion:

Make the DoT REALLY be helpful. I've seen so many good ones now. I'll repost those i like:

1) Burning ZED = Slower ZED. I really think this is a good way to make the Firebug useful. As soon as a ZED is ignited, make it move 20% or so slower
2) Burning ZED = Weaker ZED, in the sense that they deal less (melee) damage towards players. Like, 20% less damage dealt or so?
3) Non-incrementing damage. It should deal the same damage on each tick imo, rather than "increase over time"
4) Same total DoT damage, but over 8 seconds, rather than over 10 seconds. That means faster DPS, but same end total burn damage.
5) Additional percentage damage (Great idea by FieserMoep!). Meaning, it deals its regular DoT damage AND an additional 1% (or 2%?) of the target's max health as damage as well. That makes the Firebug's DoT scale better for higher difficulties, higher number of players and also helps on the tougher targets.
6) Ofc, more weapons to choose from

Now, to something i do NOT like:
1) Panic dance increase of any type. Leave this unchanged. If this was improved over Firebug levels, it could VERY easily overpower the Firebug.

Will edit more later when i have time.