[Balancing] Commando weapons weight

[fengruliuyun]

Just as the topic.
The commando have Bullpup/AK47/SCAR. They weight 6/6/5.
SCAR is the most powerful weapons among the three while the most light-weight. Is that fair?

For balancing I think that SCAR should be weight 8,and the bullpup 5.
Reasons?

Commando equipped with SCAR and AK47 weights 12/15. He can carry another MP7,which makes him available as a sub-medic. He can't act as a body shield,but can heal teammates with that stuff.This is imbalanced.

If you say someone can take his role as a sub-medic to heal tammates,he should be support,not commando.

Balancing the SCAR to 8kg and bullpup 5kg,and what will happen?

Commando equipped with SCAR and AK47 weights 15/15. No more available weapons.

Commando equipped with SCAR and bullpup weights 14/15. Maybe a machete.

Commando equipped with AK47 and bullpup weights 12/15. He can carry a katana or MP7 at his wish.

That's all. Commando are not field medic,and should not act as a medic.


One more thing to say,take off the scope of SCAR and attach the M14 lasersight can be a good idea. The precision assault rifle role has already been taken by the bullpup,and there is no need to have another scoped assault rifle. A lasersight assault rifle can be better.The ironsight? Well,just use the ironsight of the gun itself.

 

[Benjamin]

Not to put a downer on your suggestions, but you do realise everything was balanced and thoroughly tested a couple of months ago? Hence the killing floor beta board. Not to say that these aren't bad ideas (since we all know the balance wasn't perfect in the eyes of everyone), just that it's going to be hard to convince TWI to change something that they and a lot of other people have already spent a lot of time on getting just right.

Having said that, it's always a good thing to voice your opinion on the balance and fairness of certain perks and weapons.

 

[Deafmute]

Um...while we're at it why don't we just take away the syringe from every perk except Medic?

This isn't unbalanced at all. Commando has no syringe recharge boost or any of the perks Medic has and therefore no way to become a "sub-medic" as you say. I've played for ~600 hours and I've literally never seen a Commando running around with an MP7 stealing the Medic's glory. Ever. It's simply not possible.

How can slightly improved healing capabilities in the absence of a Medic be a bad thing?

 

[[UIT] Akame]

There are only two weapon that fit into the space left by a SCAR and AK/Pup loadout; katana and MP7. MP7 is very, very poor without the buffs and extremely prohibitive in cost unless you were a medic prior or have a medic buy one for you. Katana is cheaper and decent. But overall it is an expensive late game money.

Commando is very well balanced and has a role that is well defined.

 

[fengruliuyun]

Um...while we're at it why don't we just take away the syringe from every perk except Medic?

This isn't unbalanced at all. Commando has no syringe recharge boost or any of the perks Medic has and therefore no way to become a "sub-medic" as you say. I've played for ~600 hours and I've literally never seen a Commando running around with an MP7 stealing the Medic's glory. Ever. It's simply not possible.

How can slightly improved healing capabilities in the absence of a Medic be a bad thing?

Cause medics are unnecessary on lower diffs at all. Or probably no one had ever played like this?

You said that you never see a commando healing with MP7,but probably only in your country?
In fact,I am one of them who heals as a commando.

Reasons?
I am in an "army" of KF players. There are pro SSs,pro support,and pro zerkers. Unfortunately there are only 2 pro medic in the army,and I am one of them.

Also,I am the only pro commando in the army. This is a very bad situation. Sometimes we have to run HoE without medic.

That's why sometimes I have to go AK47/SCAR/MP7 as a commando. I can fire 2 healing darts before waiting for cooldown,which worths 40HP. Remember,in an elite squad,40HP can save a teammate's life.(Imagine this,a teammate with 30HP heals himself and with the 2 darts,he can go back to the fight immediately!)

↑Sounds great isn't it? But this is UNBALANCED.

PS:I can spawn as a medic,grab it and then go commando.

 

[Aze]

I somewhat agreed with the OP, although not the reasons why, but changing some numbers and the other stuff.

* Bullpup at 5 weight sounds great. I have suggested this before, but i also suggested one less mag as well, or else it might be too useful (no?).
* AK47 untouched seems just fine.
* SCAR at 8 would maybe be a tad much if nothing else changes. A weight of 7 (or maybe 8) would be justified IF it got a small boost in the form of piercing bullets (just like the Handcannon, so only 1 pierce, which gets reduced by 50% in damage).
* Removing the scope (maybe giving it to the M14 instead) and giving the SCAR the M14's laser is EXACTLY what i have suggested before, so ofc i agreed with this suggestion! Like you say as well, the Bullpup is already the precision rifle with a scope, so why make another one?

However, the reason why to increase the SCAR weight (pseudo-medic thingie) i don't agreed with. Just like the other posters here said: He won't have any bonuses for it, so it's fine

I'm glad more people than me are suggesting (the exact same too lol) these Commando changes, as it just makes so much sense!

 

[fengruliuyun]

This is NOT a simulation,BUT a REAL HOE record.
Situation:KF-Bioticslab,4 players.The KF army "Utopia" elite squad.

The men:
Utopia-F**k_You:M14 SS
Utopia-Broken:Support(AA12+huntty+katana)
Utopia-Crazy:Demo(AK47+M32+Pipe)
Utopia-Phoenix:Commando(AK47+SCAR+MP7)

I am Utopia-Phoenix,the only "double diploma" in the army.

We camped near the spawning point. Left door welded. Support/Demo/SS middleway. I on my own covered the room on the right.

*Wave 4/7* A scrake came and sawed Broken to half health.
Utopia-Broken:"Phoenix give me a few shots!"

I drew MP7 and shot him 2 darts,and he returned to his position immediately.

 

[Deafmute]

Cause medics are unnecessary on lower diffs at all. Or probably no one had ever played like this?

You said that you never see a commando healing with MP7,but probably only in your country?
In fact,I am one of them who heals as a commando.

Reasons?
I am in an "army" of KF players. There are pro SSs,pro support,and pro zerkers. Unfortunately there are only 2 pro medic in the army,and I am one of them.

Also,I am the only pro commando in the army. This is a very bad situation. Sometimes we have to run HoE without medic.

That's why sometimes I have to go AK47/SCAR/MP7 as a commando. I can fire 2 healing darts before waiting for cooldown,which worths 40HP. Remember,in an elite squad,40HP can save a teammate's life.(Imagine this,a teammate with 30HP heals himself and with the 2 darts,he can go back to the fight immediately!)

↑Sounds great isn't it? But this is UNBALANCED.

PS:I can spawn as a medic,grab it and then go commando.

...So what? Again, why don't we just remove the syringe from every other perk while we're at it? I've had friends (rarely) use the MP7 as Commando and it is nowhere near as effective as a proper Medic would be. Yes you can heal a teammate for 40 HP (which you can do with the syringe much more reliably anyway), assuming you don't miss and that the dart actually registers. If something goes wrong, there is no recharge boost to compensate.

Saying that an MP7 Commando is a viable replacement for a Medic is simply false. There is nothing unbalanced about this whatsoever.

 

[Raziel]

Utopia-Broken:Support(AA12+huntty+katana)

OMFG this support carrys 2 powerfull shotguns AND still can carry a powerfull Katana, making him a sub-berserker !

Seriously, balancing is fine for now, let's keep it that way.

 

[RainbowCakez]

Wait, a Commando can use the MP7 now?

How did I not know this before? I'm going Commando-Sub-Medic now. I'll just buy an MP7 for myself and drop it then be Commando. It's perfect.

Thank you so much o:

The downers to the Syringe recovery may be fatal; But that's 2 extra darts to heal someone, which could save their life.

 

[Darkwave]

It is balanced , you are more slow with 15/15 that you are already.

 

[Nanostrike]

Funny that it's a topic about Commando balance when they're arguably the most balanced class right now...

 

[RainbowCakez]

Funny that it's a topic about Commando balance when they're arguably the most balanced class right now...

Meh, I can see how OP sees it as .. lol, OP.

But you're sacrificing Healing capabilities for Fighting capabilites, too OP.
At level 6 you recharge your darts 200% faster, and they heal 75% more; Have you ever shot a Medigun dart when you're not a Medic? It takes forevvvveeeeeeer for the third dart to regenerate.

 

[Entangler]

I'm not interested in any of this "sub-Medic" nonsense, but I do support increasing the SCAR's weight to 7 simply to make it harder to carry off-perk. Commandos would hardly be affected. (Even when carrying a Katana as Commando, how often do you actually use it?) Reducing the Bullpup's weight to 5 in its place would be fine, since it's pissweak off-perk anyway.

 

[Fail-o-wisp]

Just as the topic.
The commando have Bullpup/AK47/SCAR. They weight 6/6/5.
SCAR is the most powerful weapons among the three while the most light-weight. Is that fair?

For balancing I think that SCAR should be weight 8,and the bullpup 5.
Reasons?

Commando equipped with SCAR and AK47 weights 12/15. He can carry another MP7,which makes him available as a sub-medic. He can't act as a body shield,but can heal teammates with that stuff.This is imbalanced.

If you say someone can take his role as a sub-medic to heal tammates,he should be support,not commando.

Balancing the SCAR to 8kg and bullpup 5kg,and what will happen?

Commando equipped with SCAR and AK47 weights 15/15. No more available weapons.

Commando equipped with SCAR and bullpup weights 14/15. Maybe a machete.

Commando equipped with AK47 and bullpup weights 12/15. He can carry a katana or MP7 at his wish.

That's all. Commando are not field medic,and should not act as a medic.


One more thing to say,take off the scope of SCAR and attach the M14 lasersight can be a good idea. The precision assault rifle role has already been taken by the bullpup,and there is no need to have another scoped assault rifle. A lasersight assault rifle can be better.The ironsight? Well,just use the ironsight of the gun itself.

I agree with you regarding the weight changes but not for your reasons. Bullpup should weight 5 blocks. There's no reason(for me at least) to use the Bullpup over the AK-47 except during the earlier rounds. Why should the SCAR, with the most damage out of all three assault rifles, weight just 5 blocks?

But I don't see how you would be able to afford an MP7. An MP7 costs THREE THOUSAND POUNDS. Those three thousand pounds are better off invested into other things like pooling money for the Demo/Support, buying a pipe bomb etc. Unless you spawned as Medic then changed classes to Commando, it's just not worth it to use the MP7 as anyone else other than Medic.

 

[fengruliuyun]

I agree with you regarding the weight changes but not for your reasons. Bullpup should weight 5 blocks. There's no reason(for me at least) to use the Bullpup over the AK-47 except during the earlier rounds. Why should the SCAR, with the most damage out of all three assault rifles, weight just 5 blocks?

But I don't see how you would be able to afford an MP7. An MP7 costs THREE THOUSAND POUNDS. Those three thousand pounds are better off invested into other things like pooling money for the Demo/Support, buying a pipe bomb etc. Unless you spawned as Medic then changed classes to Commando, it's just not worth it to use the MP7 as anyone else other than Medic.

$3000? Not that rip off price. Just spawn as a medic and switch to commando,and you have *Free* armor and MP7.

 

[Aze]

@fengruliuyun: As you might have noticed, people like your ideas, but not your reasoning why. I mean, i have even posted the very same ideas like you, so guess if i like them?

But stop being so "mildly aggressive" that the Commando is somehow overpowered with the MP7. He really isn't. I have done this combo alot actually (the SCAR+AK+MP7) and it's not that strong due to the low healing amount and the very slow recharge. But it's not a bad combo at all, it's just one of those neat weapon strategies like the AA12+HS+Katana for Support, nothing overpowered, but still a very nice and useful setup.

So once again: I agreed with the suggestions, but not the reasons why.

 

[poosh]

As many others, I agree with your idea, but your arguments are ridiculous. Bullpup weight can be reduced even to 4, like HC or M79. But in the same time SCAR's weight must be raised, so commando couldn't have all 3 weapons at the same time. 4/6/6 would be o.k. Then maybe in some circumstances commandos could take bullpup instead of AK47 to be able carrying also M79, HC or MP7M.

 

[lawszepie]

I'm thinking about realistic...
how can scar heavier than MGL140?

 

[Fish111]

Bullpup is total crap anyway I wouldn't carry it if it weighed 2 blocks