Balances Must have been Suggested by Normal Difficulty players.

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Bad_Bud

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 21, 2010
8
6
0
In summary, a fun Christmas update was the wrong time to introduce a major rebalance.

While the changes did more or less put some of the classes in balance with each other, they also mostly removed the ability to casually play the game on solo. A lot of the changes made sense from a balancing perspective, but from every other perspective seem rushed and illogical. For example, reducing crossbow body damage but leaving its penetration; reducing handcannon body damage but leaving the penetration; making dual hand cannons less useful than a single; making pipe bombs extremely expensive, but leaving the demolition perk's capacity at eight pipes?

Any time a player prefers lower tier weapons over higher tier weapons (when they can afford them), I wouldn't consider the game to be properly balanced.

It also feels like the zombies are more aggressive. They used to come in waves, but now it's a constant stream. This has made the biggest impact on my personal enjoyment. It feels like the game strategy mostly consists of when I time my reloads, and not how I kill zombies.

But anyway, most important thing is the first sentence. C'mon, you ruined my Christmas!
 
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weeman2412

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 11, 2010
359
48
0
... TWI simply made the difficulty gap far too insane for casual players.. that is why there are virtually no players on hard, suicidal, HOE .. and everyone is on normal for some reason...
 

Wail

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 28, 2010
44
10
0
... TWI simply made the difficulty gap far too insane for casual players.. that is why there are virtually no players on hard, suicidal, HOE .. and everyone is on normal for some reason...

Yeah, it is a little annoying that your choices when playing on these difficulty levels are either to glitch EvilSantasLair or play that Doom map.


I do think this patch was probably too much to throw out at one time. Wonky/unclear headshot hitboxes on the zeds is throwing me off constantly -- Combine that with rebalancing and that's not exactly ideal. I am looking forward to getting the normal zeds back just to see if I feel the same way about the state of the game with that variable removed.

I tend to agree with the perspective that a lot of the balance changes were made without regard for an overall "design." I mean, most of the time (unless I'm coming in on say wave 8) I'd probably rather spawn as a level 5 Sharpshooter with a LAR than a level 6 Sharpshooter with a Crossbow and 12 shots.

Should the game really be so much "harder" when you play with teammates that it's a lot easier to win just by running around solo?
 

Rainydaykid

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 25, 2010
1,010
203
0
TN
... TWI simply made the difficulty gap far too insane for casual players.. that is why there are virtually no players on hard, suicidal, HOE .. and everyone is on normal for some reason...

Hard is for casual players. I play hard when I am relaxing and drinking coffee in the morning, and need some knife and 9mm practice.
 

Spicy

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 8, 2010
1,219
162
0
33
New England, the Newer England
Hard is for casual players. I play hard when I am relaxing and drinking coffee in the morning, and need some knife and 9mm practice.

That's how I feel about normal, since I'm used to playing on hard.

I recall you paraphrasing that quote on filth's cross last week. XD

I thoroughly enjoy the change in difficulty. It discourages ****ty, ****ty play-styles and teamwork. That's why there are so many more people playing normal.
 

Salad Snake

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 2, 2010
875
148
0
32
Honolulu, Hawaii
I tend to agree with the perspective that a lot of the balance changes were made without regard for an overall "design." I mean, most of the time (unless I'm coming in on say wave 8) I'd probably rather spawn as a level 5 Sharpshooter with a LAR than a level 6 Sharpshooter with a Crossbow and 12 shots.

Should the game really be so much "harder" when you play with teammates that it's a lot easier to win just by running around solo?

The Crossbow sells for a lot more though...also, the "design" is that the game is a bit harder to solo with now.
 

outofrealman

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 29, 2009
1,848
336
0
Against FPs given the weird 'headshot' mechanic on the M32 i'm tempted to agree with you. The LAR/M14 combo is indeed good at taking out Scrakes, Husks, Sirens and everything else for that matter, but when it comes to the big guys, can you rely on it? I'm sure as hell not confident enough to think i could easily dispatch every Scrake on 6man HoE with a LAR/M14 as a single mistake gets you dead and hitting Husks/Sirens is never going to be as easy as with an Xbow.

And if you think about just how many FPs spawn on HoE, which couldbe upto 6 on wave 10, that is almost your entire stock of M32 ammo to kill them and your Pipes which are effective but awkward to use and may result in someone taking an FP to the face before they detonate.


LAR/M14 combo is good against everything, even if you really need to solo some of the big guys in 6-man HoE. (if you use them well of cos)

Xbow is only good IF there is already an anti-fp guys who do the job very well AND you can take out EVERY sirens and husks and scrakes before they do any real damage (you need to remember demo and support can kill husks and sirens even they are behind a group of zeds). Becuse xbow kill scrakes better than M14 only. If you want to be the anti-fp guy, aa12/hunting shotgun support is even better. (again, you can kill zeds in front of and behind the fp while you do serious damage to the fp) And I leave out demo cos you seems to think that head shot bonus from GLs is a bug or something.

How can the xbow be cost effective now? really? Weight is cost, total ammo is cost, reload time is cost, selling price is cost, ammo price is cost. Everything together help us to deside which weapon we want to use. Xbow just cost you too much. You nearly give up crowd control if you choose the xbow over M14/LAR. Cos hc only have 96 shots and with 8 shots per reload (or 16 if you give up accracy). Oh... you can have SCAR now, but... do you really want to have SCAR + xbow as sharpshooter (with high recoil and slow reload)?
 
Last edited:

sverek

Active member
May 20, 2009
435
234
43
Balance got changed, and I think it's for better. I rarely see rambos around (since if you get away from your group, you smell no better dead). Forget about stupid berserkers.

I think TWI wanted new people to breath new "well balanced" Killing Floor. Where teamwork is must.
 

Rainydaykid

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 25, 2010
1,010
203
0
TN
LAR/M14 combo is good against everything, even if you really need to solo some of the big guys in 6-man HoE. (if you use them well of cos)

Xbow is only good IF there is already an anti-fp guys who do the job very well AND you can take out EVERY sirens and husks and scrakes before they do any real damage (you need to remember demo and support can kill husks and sirens even they are behind a group of zeds). Becuse xbow kill scrakes better than M14 only. If you want to be the anti-fp guy, aa12/hunting shotgun support is even better. (again, you can kill zeds in front of and behind the fp while you do serious damage to the fp) And I leave out demo cos you seems to think that head shot bonus from GLs is a bug or something.

How can the xbow be cost effective now? really? Weight is cost, total ammo is cost, reload time is cost, selling price is cost, ammo price is cost. Everything together help us to deside which weapon we want to use. Xbow just cost you too much. You nearly give up crowd control if you choose the xbow over M14/LAR. Cos hc only have 96 shots and with 8 shots per reload (or 16 if you give up accracy). Oh... you can have SCAR now, but... do you really want to have SCAR + xbow as sharpshooter (with high recoil and slow reload)?

Not really. I have 2 guys I play with that are xbow sharps, and that scrake or FP is dead as soon as it comes around the corner. This is upper hall in biotics, or other close range maps, not just open areas.
 
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Helios

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 23, 2010
22
35
0
i honestly dont think there are ANY needs for ANYTHING to be nerf
seriously, if you find the game play too easy? the perks are over powering?

MOVE UP A FREAKING DIFFICULTY
only start complaining when you find HoE too easy to beat
 

Salad Snake

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 2, 2010
875
148
0
32
Honolulu, Hawaii
i honestly dont think there are ANY needs for ANYTHING to be nerf
seriously, if you find the game play too easy? the perks are over powering?

MOVE UP A FREAKING DIFFICULTY
only start complaining when you find HoE too easy to beat

It's not about "X weapon is overpowered", it's about "X weapon is overpowered compared to Y, Z, and A weapons". If you have 14 balanced weapons, and 1 overpowered weapon, then in essence the game only has 1 weapon since that weapon will be used every time (except for sh*ts and giggles).

Weapon balanced is not about making the game harder, it's about making every weapon as useful as every other.
 

outofrealman

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 29, 2009
1,848
336
0
Not really. I have 2 guys I play with that are xbow sharps, and that scrake or FP is dead as soon as it comes around the corner. This is upper hall in biotics, or other close range maps, not just open areas.


WOW, so I need one M14/LAR sharpshooter to be good against scrakes and fleshpound and do a fine job in clearing trash. And I need TWO xbow sharpshooter to be VERY GOOD against scrakes and pounds and do a bad job in clearing trash (you dont really have choices, do you? Handcannon with 96 shots or off-perk SCAR?). This must be perfect balance.:troll:
 

SMIFF

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 19, 2009
1,815
804
0
WOW, so I need one M14/LAR sharpshooter to be good against scrakes and fleshpound and do a fine job in clearing trash. And I need TWO xbow sharpshooter to be VERY GOOD against scrakes and pounds and do a bad job in clearing trash (you dont really have choices, do you? Handcannon with 96 shots or off-perk SCAR?). This must be perfect balance.:troll:

...what the hell are you talking about?
 

SMIFF

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 19, 2009
1,815
804
0
... which part you dont understand? He try to proof xbow is effective but he used a bad example. How will a weapon be good if you need two people?

Seriously? Are you completely retarded?

I won't even dignify that with a proper response, you obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about at all.
 
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outofrealman

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 29, 2009
1,848
336
0
Seriously? Are you completely retarded?

I won't even dignify that with a proper response, you obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about at all.


You mean you dont understand? Or you think M14/LAR combo cannot kill scrakes and pounds? Or you think you can use any combo with xbow and still do a better job in killing trash? Or you simply dont know M14 is quite good for small to medium zeds?