Balance issues (AK, M16, M14)

[ComradeHX]

It's the longest rifle in use for the US, says enough imo.

No most are standard m1a with match grade ammo.

You have some kind of sad OCD for the m16, I give in.

The truth hurts, the facts are fact. M14 was a more Accurate and more powerful rifle. It does not mean it's better...And no im not a m14 nut, I just like battle rifles.. Id take an FN-FAL (slr) over the lot.

The developers of the game are trying to make it as real & authentic as possible, I think they did a great job.

So buff the AKs Accuracy a bit, remove a bar of accuracy or range from the m16 to balance it.

It's a pitty the longer barrel variant of the Ak was not added.

Longest rifle?

So you're saying it shoots further because bullet leaves barrel closer to enemy? LMAO
Basic firearm knowledge should tell you that barrel length doesn't necessarily mean better accuracy.
A longer rifle doesn't mean much, especially M14 where stock took up a lot of total length.

OCD? Again, I don't think you know what it means. No, I'm not a fan of M16 either.

The truth indeed hurts you. The standard M14 is not exactly more accurate, it's potentially better at range because of bigger round and early M16 rifling didn't stabilize bullet very well(which also made bullet more likely to tumble...etc.).
FN FAL was a battlerifle because of political bull****, it was supposed to use .280.

Real & Authentic? Far from it. I've already made a thread about how they even got model/texture wrong.
https://forums.tripwireinteractive.c...chunk-of-metal

Longer barrel variant like what? What longer barrel variant of AK was used in Vietnam? (none, RPK isn't AK, that's in support weapon category; neither is VZ58) The biggest effect on accuracy from longer barrel of RPK would be from longer sight radius anyway.

Thicker(than AKM) barreled AK with milled receiver is the way to go for a more accurate AK variant, like the AK"47"(actually just called AK).

 

[IrishHitman79]

What are you on about?

For the third time it's in USE for the greatest amount of time, maybe symbols will help.... M14 time service > other rifles.

It's pointless trying to have a civil debate.
You clearly don't know the meaning of that.

You are off on a serious one now... M14 length of the gun off an a tangent? it also has a long sling you won't like that! Why are you ranting on about the FAL for it was just my opinion.

I should have taken the advise of the other posters. Over and out comrade it's been fun.

 

[Gladius]

My proposal for making the M14 more attractive is to reduce the weapon sway a little bit. I'm fine with the recoil and damage but the sway is excessive. I would like to get less sway when crouched and not moving.

And I hope the gunshot sounds of the M14 get remastered. It sounds like a plastic canister gets beaten by a stick. The high frequencies are muffled. I miss the lashing crack.

 

[2dfrog]

M16 will always be more accurate than the AK platform, mechanical fact. However the AK accuracy in this game is ridiculous, it's Minute Of Barnyard at the moment. AK accuracy isn't pinpoint but it's more than enough to hit a man out to 300m and within 150m it should be much more accurate than ingame.

 

[Gladius]

M16 will always be more accurate than the AK platform, mechanical fact.

That's a popular misconception.

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/772939.pdf

 

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

That's a popular misconception.

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/772939.pdf

I think he meant on average, in which case he's right as tolerances are much tighter. Rifles that have seen lots of use and not seen an armourer, to amongst other things take care of loose handguards, will ofcourse have accuracy issues.

I think an average of 1.5 to 2.0 MOA is typical for a well kept M16A1, where'as the proper AK's (Russian or Chinese) usually land at around double that. All of this is assuming military grade ammunition ofcourse.

 

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

My proposal for making the M14 more attractive is to reduce the weapon sway a little bit. I'm fine with the recoil and damage but the sway is excessive. I would like to get less sway when crouched and not moving.

This will help little with the current sight picture of the weapon. I really struggle hard to hit targets that aren't stationary with the M14, I mean its bad with the M16 but with the M14 its just attrocious.

And I hope the gunshot sounds of the M14 get remastered. It sounds like a plastic canister gets beaten by a stick. The high frequencies are muffled. I miss the lashing crack.

I agree completely, the M14 sounds rather anemic atm.

 

[Gladius]

This will help little with the current sight picture of the weapon. I really struggle hard to hit targets that aren't stationary with the M14, I mean its bad with the M16 but with the M14 its just attrocious.

I played the last two days exclusively with the M14 an my K/D dropped by 15%. The sights are a problem indeed, but this is most likely not going to get changed. The only thing that could realistically be done imo is reducing the sway.

 

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

I played the last two days exclusively with the M14 an my K/D dropped by 15%. The sights are a problem indeed, but this is most likely not going to get changed. The only thing that could realistically be done imo is reducing the sway.

tbh I think fixing the sights is a very realistic propostion, it's all about how willing the devs are to do the work. There are so many ways in which it can be achieved, like for example making the aperture 75% transparent, or as suggested earlier using an animation that opens up the ring as you enter iron sight view. I cannot express how excited I would be if the devs would just put in the final effort and do this. The thought of finally getting realistic peep sights in this series is so damn appealing.

 

[ComradeHX]

What are you on about?

For the third time it's in USE for the greatest amount of time, maybe symbols will help.... M14 time service > other rifles.

It's pointless trying to have a civil debate.
You clearly don't know the meaning of that.

You are off on a serious one now... M14 length of the gun off an a tangent? it also has a long sling you won't like that! Why are you ranting on about the FAL for it was just my opinion.

I should have taken the advise of the other posters. Over and out comrade it's been fun.

You're literally retarded, I assumed you were just pretending to be retarded about the length of barrel/rifle because longest service record is from 1903...
Unless you're trying to say M14 is the Battle Rifle with longest service time in U.S. military which is moot point because it's pretty much the only one.
Again, you don't get to spoof the record with M21 & EBR...etc.

Civil debate stops when you go full retard spewing myth and lies.
Yes, you once again do not know the meaning of the word you post; that is a trend now.

You have been out for a long time, you just didn't realize it.

 

[Floyd]

I'll just leave this here:


Flaming - We do not tolerate abusive, malicious, personal attacks. You will be banned if you persist in this behavior.

• Trolls - Anyone deliberately antagonizing other forum users by posting 'flame bait' type messages is not welcome. You will be banned (possibly without warning depending on the severity of the issue) if you persist in this behavior.
• Personal insults (directed at anyone) will result in a ban. If the behavior is not corrected, it will be made more permanent.
• Constructive criticism is welcome. However keep in mind we (and other forums goers) may not agree with you. If you can't keep the conversation civil, you will be removed from the forums.

 

[Gladius]

You're literally retarded, I assumed you were just pretending to be retarded about the length of barrel/rifle because longest service record is from 1903...
Unless you're trying to say M14 is the Battle Rifle with longest service time in U.S. military which is moot point because it's pretty much the only one.
Again, you don't get to spoof the record with M21 & EBR...etc.

Civil debate stops when you go full retard spewing myth and lies.
Yes, you once again do not know the meaning of the word you post; that is a trend now.

You have been out for a long time, you just didn't realize it.

You really need the provocation because otherwise nobody would pay you attention.

 

[IrishHitman79]

1) What is your obsession with its barrel length good lord? Not once did I ever mention it ever.. please show me when I did?

2)It is the longest rifle or battle rifle in use for the US its fact.The springfield was retired in the 70s. M14 is still in use from its introduction.

Back on topic.

I agree with the weapon sounds, alot are similar too.

Do any of you ever really adjust the zero on iron sights? I find it a waste of time to be honest.

 

[Gladius]

Do any of you ever really adjust the zero on iron sights? I find it a waste of time to be honest.

On the current maps it's mostly not necessary to adjust the sights for long range. But that might change on future maps.

 

[Gladius]

making the aperture 75% transparent, or as suggested earlier using an animation that opens up the ring as you enter iron sight view

This is a very good idea. I dont believe the gun models will get changed so much but I definately think TWI should keep that idea in mind. The introduction of a CAR-15 could be a chance for a better sight.

 

[2dfrog]

That's a popular misconception.

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/772939.pdf

The multilug bolt of the M16 platform produces a more repeatable lockup, which in turn increases accuracy shot to shot. Tighter tolerances, repeatable lock up and ergonomic design are all hallmarks of any accurate rifle.

 

[Gladius]

The multilug bolt of the M16 platform produces a more repeatable lockup, which in turn increases accuracy shot to shot. Tighter tolerances, repeatable lock up and ergonomic design are all hallmarks of any accurate rifle.

The AR-15 system is potentially more accurate. The point of the misconception is the word "always". As you can see in the linked report the M16A1 needs to be well maintained to perform accurately. And it is questionable that the average rifle of a frontline infantryman is that much better performing than the AK 47 plattform. Read again what I replied to with that link.

 

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

This is a very good idea. I dont believe the gun models will get changed so much but I definately think TWI should keep that idea in mind. The introduction of a CAR-15 could be a chance for a better sight.

Yeah I certainly hope so

 

[ComradeHX]

You really need the provocation because otherwise nobody would pay you attention.

I don't need provocation for idiots like you to show yourselves.

 

[2dfrog]

The AR-15 system is potentially more accurate. The point of the misconception is the word "always". As you can see in the linked report the M16A1 needs to be well maintained to perform accurately. And it is questionable that the average rifle of a frontline infantryman is that much better performing than the AK 47 plattform. Read again what I replied to with that link.

I don't see the connection, assuming both rifles are in the same condition the M16 platform would still have tighter tolerances than an AK even after being run hard and put away wet. In terms of averages the M16 will be a more accurate platform no matter the condition of the rifle, the ergonomics, sights and inline recoil system provide a much more accurate system than the rudimentary AK sights and ergonomics.

However I agree that both of them should not be considered night and day in terms of accuracy and inaccuracy, for combat conditions aiming at a man sized target within 150m there is only a few inches here or there between them, nothing like the Minute of Barnyard we see with the AK ingame.