attention all TWI Forumites!!!

[Major_Day]

A mutator Moe? thats exactly what we're hoping someone will provide, thats why the question is being asked on the modding part of the forums
The rights or wrongs, or the reasons why TWI decided to not allow tank exiting are irrelevant now.
The decision was already made, and it has been discussed to death long before now anyway, its a part of the standard game, a part i'm a bit uneasy with, so thats why i'm in favour of using a mutator to change it.

edit: perhaps you could do it Moe?

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

My comment was aimed at the couple of posters either saying there were no reasons to not allow bailing or vice versa... and sorta elaborated on your previous post Major Day.

I think a mod or mutator that would allow exiting a vehicle is the better solution for some custom servers that want to use tank exiting. A simple system similar to MN/DH could work with a slightly longer delay. Personally that is still the insta-teleporting that I hated and introduces problems with infantry combat on combined arms maps, less so on tank only maps where its effect is minimal on the actual combat.

I'll admit that my biggest problem with not allowing exiting had to do with getting out of the tank to better position it in an ambush situation and quite honestly I rarely did that. Almost all the other reasons TWI gave for not including bailing made more sense than not for me. Teleporting out of vehicles and lone tankers running around aimlessly, or pretending to be both tankers and infantry really annoyed the hell outta me and is more gamey than forcing tankers to stay in their tanks.

I'm sure there are more qualified hardcore tankers better able to do a mutator than me. From what I see and understand, full blown entering and exiting animations would be best in regards to actual combat, and even then you would need to take into account the effects tankers without tanks would have on vehicles, spawns, the ineffectiveness of not being in a replacement tank because you are wandering the battlefield etc etc

 

[dogbadger]

Pfff....yes, it is. The motivation "it's not funny to destroy an empty tank" is bull****....

you're the first person to bring that reason up - it has some validity but its far from the most compelling reason to keep ppl in armour.

Now I'm not championing the new tank system, and while I'm sympathetic to it's reasoning I'm certainly not going to declare it right without debate.
However the frustrating thing is i get the impression that naysayers aren't even picking up on what those actual reasons are - let alone countering them - and even worse in some cases i think it's a result of deliberate side-stepping by ppl so inflexible that they don't want to acknowledge decent arguments.

 

[Major_Day]

I think a mod or mutator that would allow exiting a vehicle is the better solution for some custom servers that want to use tank exiting. A simple system similar to MN/DH could work with a slightly longer delay. Personally that is still the insta-teleporting that I hated and introduces problems with infantry combat on combined arms maps, less so on tank only maps where its effect is minimal on the actual combat.

I'll admit that my biggest problem with not allowing exiting had to do with getting out of the tank to better position it in an ambush situation and quite honestly I rarely did that. Almost all the other reasons TWI gave for not including bailing made more sense than not for me. Teleporting out of vehicles and lone tankers running around aimlessly, or pretending to be both tankers and infantry really annoyed the hell outta me and is more gamey than forcing tankers to stay in their tanks.

I didn't really want to get into this discussion again, coz we already had it months ago on another part of the forums, but i feel that i have to answer your claim that exiting a tank is gamey, when in fact it is one of the most realistic things about RO, since thousands of tankers must have done it IRL, to escape a burning or disabled tank and maybe save their lives,
The way that TWI implemented it in RO.(teleporting) is the gamey looking part about it, but now they have replaced it with spawning INSIDE a tank, and not being allowed to exit to save your life, which is just so unrealistic and even more gamey.
The DH/MN systems are already in place, and with as you say a little tweaking could perhaps be used as the basis for a mutator.
RO is touted as one of the most realistic games around, and thats why i love it, i would like to keep it that way by removing as many of the unrealistic things as possible, teleporting is first on the list as far as i'm concerned. (DH teleporting spawns and a certain MN map also spring to mind as well)
TWI are introducing a helluva lot of new things in HoS which are more gamey than realistic, but at least most of them can be eliminated serverside (i think), tank exiting and spawning inside a tank cannot.

These are MY REASONS why i hope someone can make just such a mutator, if some people disagree with them, thats fine by me, we're all entitled to our own opinions, so if anybody doesn't like the idea just remember that nobody would be forced to use it.

ps: and just as an afterthought, what do you think all the noobs who at present in RO just jump out their tank and run away, not for some tactical reason, but just to stop themselves being killed by the next shell, will do in HoS, they won't be able to run away, the answer is simple of course, commit suicide, teleport back inside a new tank at the spawn, and carry on til the next time somebody shoots at them and do it all again.....even more unrealistic, laughable in fact.

 

[Tank!]

Well i do understand TWI's reasons for removing tank baling (ie: running away from the tank before the next shell hits and probably kills you)

That problem has been supposedly fixed with the very much faster tank rounds in RO2.

it seems like a major irritation to some people (TWI?)

Instead of putting in an exit delay in addition to the faster tank rounds, it seems TWI took the "You can't do that because we say so" bully approach.

So if somebody could make a small mutator that allows us to leave the tank

It would be preferable if TWI sees reason and makes an official content patch.

The ability to exit a tank and scan the horizon from a ridge say is admittedly a loss if we see larger maps - but again understandably doesn't warrant the effort - at least from TwI's point of view.

Their opinion and view is obviously heavily biased against tank players.

(not counting fire or other real reasons) such as running in a building to try and cap it.

Cursory playing of DH revealed to me that DH has a cap zone option that restricts tank crew from capping. DH-Stoumont has this. First time playing I was WTF? until someone informed me of it.

There may be a small chance they look at bailing at a later date, but I wouldn't hold my breath

We (tank people) should start some sort of informative petition thread.

exit to save your life, which is just so unrealistic and even more gamey.

Its kamikaze. Its like a fighter pilot without a parachute.

 

[Snuffeldjuret]

I didn't really want to get into this discussion again, coz we already had it months ago on another part of the forums, but i feel that i have to answer your claim that exiting a tank is gamey, when in fact it is one of the most realistic things about RO, since thousands of tankers must have done it IRL, to escape a burning or disabled tank and maybe save their lives, ...

I don't get this. Didn't TWI speak of a "scuttle" key, that players will use to leave the tank to save their life. They just don't get to control the player afterwards as he is not supposed to join the battle as a regular soldier.

 

[Major_Day]

I can't be certain (it was so long ago now), but i assumed the scuttle key would just be the same as typing suicide in the console, you don't actually exit the tank, you just die,and have to wait for the other crew members or your tank to die and respawn.
Unless your solo tanking of course,and the tank dies along with you. (i think)
Many things are still very uncertain at the moment, and until we get a manual or TWI publishes some sort of definitive guide,nobody is really certain of how these things work, a lot of it is just guesswork.
But even if you are correct and you can no longer play an active role in the game, then you may as well be dead.
Things seem to be getting more complicated week by week, or perhaps we are just imagining they are due to a lack of information.

 

[Mike_Nomad]

I hate to go back to that but bailing out really is fun, and I often cap after I bail out so its not necessary to delete that! Im sure it

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

No no Major , I didn't say exiting a tank is gamey, teleporting out of a tank is gamey as are all the other things that many players do as crewman when they exit a tank that are. I won't argue your opinion on whose idea is more gamey/real such as bailing out of your tank to stay alive or the player/crewman who thinks he is the all-in-one action hero who must be tanker/infantryman etc. I'll stand by my opinion as you'll stand by yours

But anyway, the discussion should be about creating a mod or mutator...

Yes, a mutator made by the community would be best. Going the full exit/enter animation route would be a very admirable undertaking (personally that way would be alot of work for very little gain in my opinion). It would allow those tankers who do try to play in a more realistic manner to exit if needed. Keep in mind that it will also allow all of those 'other' players to do all those things that are annoying and generally unrealistic in real life for a tanker to do.

 

[WiFiDi]

That problem has been supposedly fixed with the very much faster tank rounds in RO2.



Instead of putting in an exit delay in addition to the faster tank rounds, it seems TWI took the "You can't do that because we say so" bully approach.



It would be preferable if TWI sees reason and makes an official content patch.



Their opinion and view is obviously heavily biased against tank players.



Cursory playing of DH revealed to me that DH has a cap zone option that restricts tank crew from capping. DH-Stoumont has this. First time playing I was WTF? until someone informed me of it.



We (tank people) should start some sort of informative petition thread.



Its kamikaze. Its like a fighter pilot without a parachute.

reality hasn't sunk in there quite yet, has it sport?

 

[RiccardoTheBeAst]

Guys.....you're talking about "exit delay" when everyone knows (or should know) that also switching position inside the tank will require time. A lot of time (some seconds are a lot of time, during a battle).

It's the most obvious thing of all obvious things that exist on the world that also the bailing out will have a related animation with the related "waste" of time.

So, i will enjoy the game also without bailing out, its absence isn't something that will kill me, absolutely not, but, simply, IMHO it isn't realistic that the crew wait the death inside a burning tank. Simply this

I'm not going to accuse TWI of something bad, neither i'm going do dislike RO2...i cannot wait to play it! I really appreciate the TWI hard work on RO2, i'm only discussing about something that i believe could be modified in a better way.

 

[Major_Day]

Agreed!! A short delay is dandy.

This is all i'm suggesting, a mutator based on the DH system, but we need a modder to volunteer to do it.

 

[Zips]

Who says there isn't a short delay between when you're allowed to scuttle and when it actually happens post-key press?

 

[dogbadger]

So, i will enjoy the game also without bailing out, its absence isn't something that will kill me, absolutely not, but, simply, IMHO it isn't realistic that the crew wait the death inside a burning tank. Simply this

putting other exit issues aside and dealing with this -
i see it similar to games where as infantry you are incapacitated - you're not dead but you're no longer fit to take part in the fighting.

Few would want to sit there waiting to bleed to death before continuing as another soldier, and your team certainly wouldn't appreciate it.

Now I accept in some games you can wait to be patched up and revived (although the realism of this is doubious at best) but in the case of a inoperable tank this is impractical within the timescale of the battles that typically will be represented by HoS.
So you just respawn and wait for new equipment, as new tankers with new armour.
And just like the incapacited soldier who's body you've 'left', who cares what happened next - it's irrelevent to the battle in progress - make up whatever story in your head you like.

Now, if we see large epic tank maps with 2 hour game timers appear from 3rd parties (cos it doesn't look like thats what TWi have in mind) , there might be something in the idea of reparing a tank, and leaving a tank for other reasons.
If ppl want to go to the coding and animation effort to achieve that good for them - but everyone's getting it arse about face - lets see that kind of map and gameplay 1st and then address the issue of extra functionality that would be a benefit to that game type.

What i find a bit silly and somewhat annoying is the accusation that TWi are making a poor design decision, based on a tanking fantasy that is nothing like what TWi have planned for the stock game.
Because if you just consider the combined arms experience it looks TWi are releasing at this point, you have to say it's a sensible choice.

 

[Major_Day]

Who says there isn't a short delay between when you're allowed to scuttle and when it actually happens post-key press?

What happens after that?