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Apocalypto

D3terioNation

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 15, 2005
3,959
82
0
39
West Sussex, UK
Could you elaborate, for the sake of conversation, why you disagree mate.

I havent really seen any healthy discussion about this film here or the DoD forum which I frequent, and I think the film deserves some! :)
 

ImNotRyan

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 29, 2007
188
0
0
Florida
I walked in expecting to hate it...

It really wasn't that bad...

The underwater birth seemed unnecessary and strange... It took a scene with the requisite level of intensity, and by adding that extra bit of intensity, sent it over the edge to where I sat back, unplugged, and thought.... "Oh yeah, I'm watching a movie... Mel Gibson's a nut..."

It didn't let me down and was alot of fun to watch.

I honestly didn't put any thought into analyzing the film because it's already out there that the director has prejudices. I don't say this to mean that he had them against the Native Americans, and I don't mean to imply that it made it into the film. But the art of film does lose something when you know a tidbit like that about the director, doesn't it? Like a film about the struggles of a gay boy, by an openly gay director... "Gee what's the film maker trying to say to us?"

I was a little thrown back by the audacity of this guy to have a movie set 100% among the natives and just throw in that little Spanish landing at the end. If it wasn't the vehicle by which the hero ultimately escaped - it would have been much stranger.
 
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Six_Ten

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 12, 2006
1,382
400
0
aztecmod.darkesthourgame.com
Maya

Maya

The Spanish invaders were blessed by the Catholic Royalty of the time and had the blessing of the Church. But this period is seen as a time when the Spanish came to plunder the Continent and wipe out entire civilizations through slaughter and disease!

"But the film depicts the Mayan people as pure savages (not all but most) that needed salvation. If not by their own will then by sheer force! Whos bloody traditions needed to be eradicated and whose backward culture just had to be Christianized! "!

The film depicts them as they were, not as pure savages but as masters of architecture and astronomy and art, as one of the great civilizations of the world. About the time of the European invasion/exploration (whichever way you prefer to characterize it) they surpassed Europe in many ways.

Tenochtitlan (capital of the Aztec Empire, today's Mexico City) supported a population four times that of London. The canals and roads rivalled Venice in the eyes of the Spanish who saw them, and the markets and general cleanliness surpassed anything in Europe at the time. The people of the region were hardly savages. Raiding villages for slaves and bloody wars of conquest occurred all over Europe and Asia and Africa at the same time, so it is hardly a mark of native savagery that it occurred in the Americas too.

I recommend you read The Great Siege: Malta 1565 by Ernle Bradford for a look at savagery of the time: The Turks attacked Eastern Europe, laid siege to Vienna, assaulted Hungary, and tried to capture Malta. Both sides captured men for use as galley slave rowers. The men rowed under the whip for ten or twelve hours with no breaks; when one fell over his oar exhausted he was flogged to unconsciousness and thrown overboard.

None of that recommends the Maya for "needing salvation". Their gods and goddesses are far older and revered as piously as the worship of any of the sons of Abraham.
 

D3terioNation

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 15, 2005
3,959
82
0
39
West Sussex, UK
Well the film pretty much depicts them as blood thirsty savages (the invaders) that part you must agree? It also depicts a characteristic where these 'architects' & 'astronomers' you speak of made up a minuscule percentage of an otherwise completely uneducated majority!

These people were kept ignorant to keep the elite in power, wouldnt you agree? A tradition duplicated all over the world off course...

You have obviously done alot of research as you're part of the Aztec mod team. Can you recommend me any good books on the continent before or after the Spanish arrived? This film has really sparked my curiosity to learn more about the period! :)

Btw is this an ingame shot?

http://moddb.com/images/cache/mods/91/9170/gallery/water_62097.jpg
 

Six_Ten

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 12, 2006
1,382
400
0
aztecmod.darkesthourgame.com
Mesoamerica

Mesoamerica

"Well the film pretty much depicts them as blood thirsty savages (the invaders) that part you must agree? "

Their gods were bloodthirsty, but that does not make the people savages. A Christian perspective: the main symbol is God/Man crucified; in many churches you see not an abstracted form of this, but detailed realism: carved wounds in His flesh, blood painted running down His skin. It is gruesome. This blood sacrifice is repeated every week today: when Christians take communion they reenact the human sacrifice and symbolically consume the flesh of Christ, participating in an act of ritual cannibalism.

"It also depicts a characteristic where these 'architects' & 'astronomers' you speak of made up a minuscule percentage of an otherwise completely uneducated majority!"

It was not such a small minority; just as today any of the skilled construction workers on a job site are not completely uneducated, the men building the cities and temples then could not have been completely uneducated.

"You have obviously done alot of research as you're part of the Aztec mod team. Can you recommend me any good books on the continent before or after the Spanish arrived? This film has really sparked my curiosity to learn more about the period! :)"

A good one to start with is widely available at libraries and on Amazon etc:

The Discovery and Conquest of Mexico by Bernal Diaz del Castillo.


"Btw is this an ingame shot?

http://moddb.com/images/cache/mods/9...ater_62097.jpg"

That is rendered in Terragen2. I will post some in-game screenshots. Up to this point the Aztec Empire Mod for RO is a solo effort on my part and I am ready to build a team to complete it. If you (and anyone else familiar with RO) would like to help, even in a limited way, I will appreciate it.
 
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Sgt.Rock

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 3, 2006
482
0
0
Texas
Mel Gibson is a sick, Jew-hating ****er and there's no way I'm giving him any money.

Is that any worse than being hateful or predjudice towards anyone or anything else? Im sure there are quite a few people in Hollywood that are hateful towards something or another.
 

Heinz

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 29, 2005
1,804
0
0
New York, USA
excellent film, as was Mel's Passion.

In Apocolypto, he strips away the multi-culti PC bull-shiite that surrounds all things "native", and shows a great deal of the brutality involved in that era of south american "civilization", including the human sacrifices.

all in all, it's a very engrossing and entertaining film. like The Passion of the Christ, it's not for the feint of heart!! :)
 

Coey

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 16, 2006
1,708
3
0
Both 300 and Apocalypto have an almost dizzying array of semi/nakedmanass, and I for one hope this a trend Hollywood are keen to take up.