Anybody else finds teleporting zeds stupid?
- Thread starter Hugobertington
- Start date
I should have clarified better. It is still possible to kite, but primarily on hard or normal diff. Suicidal and HoE have those new zed mechanics (sprinting, etc. designed by the devs to counter kiting). The higher speed of the zeds shouldn't be a problem so much as even in KF it is possible to kite even as a support, its those sprinting tactics.
Also, stop putting words in my mouth and assuming things. Though, that is largely my fault for not clarifying apparently.
Also my point------>>
Your head.
The process of thinking of on the fly planning a path to avoid getting rekted was the concept to take away from. You are not a very critical thinker if you can't grasp that after being told it.
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Agreed, this mechanic needs to go. I can see why the devs did it but the artificial challenge it creates is not enjoyable, but simply frustrating and annoying.
its not about kiting, I was playing a solo game, I had 1 zed left I was making my way to the trader with the zed about 20 meters behind me, I turn a corner and he's in my face and grabbed me, I had to kill him when I was no where near the trader.
Well the next question to ask is, why weren't you closer to the trader? Why not start making your way there earlier?
It's not a good habit to put things off to the last minute.
Teleporting zeds solves issues more serious than the ones it creates. Like this one, if you want to call it one.
I don't care about teleporting clots and not milking the end of the wave to farm gear. It's not like KF1 anymore where traders could be so far away you NEEDED the extra time to get there. In KF2 people running around for 3 minutes with 1 ZED left so they can get 150 more Dosh is a luxury, not a requirement.
But when it's a Scrake or FP teleporting to cut you off, that is indeed kind of some BS. Especially on the highest difficulties where you being in arms length of them = you dead.
But when it's a Scrake or FP teleporting to cut you off, that is indeed kind of some BS. Especially on the highest difficulties where you being in arms length of them = you dead.
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Maybe. But then, look at it this way: KF1 Fleshpounds / Scrakes spawned without the player's knowledge. You would already turn a corner and suddenly they were there. In KF2 this spawning is announced to everyone by a very noticeable sound cue. You should already be preparing to fight them.
The system needs work for sure, perhaps like for situations like this, but it's still an improvement.
I disagree. It's not really an improvement, but a flawed alternative. I think Zyntethic's idea for example would be a better fit than the current system.
Imagine the following scenario. You're the only one left on your team. Everyone has died, it's you against a scrake, with either mando or medic.
You try to kite the scrake into a suitable spot, where you can fire from afar to kill him before he gets to you and completely wrecks you. Thing is, you need some more ammo, so you scout the map and try to take the smart path leaving the scrake behind.
Suddenly, he appears from the opposite cardinal direction in which he was. That's bull****. You can't lock doors and use position to your advantage.
I remember in the devs videos they talked about how if you welded a door, the zed would eventually take an alternate route. I expect that behaviour, not teleporting.
Looks like I missed his post. Yeah, that would certainly work too. But no more auto-killing of Zeds. There's a better way of doing things than that.
Another alternative would just make them faster in every difficulty when either the player count hits 1 or the ZED count hits < 5.
The delay needs to be significantly longer for this. I'm all for that one crawler to get moved but I'm really tired of running to the trader with a scrake or something behind me, trying to make sure I have time to buy/sell/scavenge b4 next wave, and suddenly the scrakes in front of me. It's waaay to fast.
Scrakes and Fleshpounds are on a longer Dr Watson timer than the other ZEDs. (from what I can see)
I guess can see some sort of merit behind this teleportation thing, but I also feel it seems awfully artificial and contrived. If it is supposed to be a cure for stuck zeds, the answer to that is simply better pathing and play-testing before a map goes live. I can remember several of Epic's maps that shipped for the various Unreal Tournament games that had some very glaring bot-pathing issues, and everyone who has even a little time playing Killing Floor has learned zeds can get stuck, and just where that happens. There really is no excuse for this. If you can't get the pathing to work, then you alter the construction of the map until it does.
As an "anti-kiting" preventative, teleportation feels just cheap and lazy. I think it does break whatever immersion a player has invested in a wave, and, other than a Scrake or Fleshpound, if people want to prolong a wave to scoop-up whatever ammo and equipment is lying about, any other single zed isn't likely to curb that behavior very much. So, what is this really accomplishing?
Actually, if it is a matter of only a single player being left after the rest of the squad has died, perhaps as one of those dead players, hoping that a teammate can cap that final 'Pound or Scrake, I WANT the remaining survivor to be able to use the environment effectively, and confidently. Especially if he/she is low on ammunition and/or armorless. To have that player, on let's say, Wave 8, walk into the warm embrace of one of the big guys, not because of any tactical misstep on the part of the player, but due simply to some totally implausible act of teleportation? Well, to me, that seems like a mighty lousy way of ending a game.
Since the traders are apparently just electronic kiosks in KF2, maybe if people are obviously delaying the end of a wave, for whatever reason, the location of the trading kiosk scheduled to open should start to change in response. This probably wouldn't penalize a sole-remaining player too much in the situation I outlined in the paragraph, above. (When you're dancing with Death as a sole-survivor, the trading location isn't that big on your list of priorities.) But, in any other case, it would otherwise make it in everyone's benefit to quickly hunt down and "off" that last zed, because if that doesn't happen within X seconds, they'll discover the active trading kiosk has just moved 150 meters from where it previously was scheduled to open.
The way it stands now, I'm for removing this teleportation dynamic before the game goes Gold.
As an "anti-kiting" preventative, teleportation feels just cheap and lazy. I think it does break whatever immersion a player has invested in a wave, and, other than a Scrake or Fleshpound, if people want to prolong a wave to scoop-up whatever ammo and equipment is lying about, any other single zed isn't likely to curb that behavior very much. So, what is this really accomplishing?
Actually, if it is a matter of only a single player being left after the rest of the squad has died, perhaps as one of those dead players, hoping that a teammate can cap that final 'Pound or Scrake, I WANT the remaining survivor to be able to use the environment effectively, and confidently. Especially if he/she is low on ammunition and/or armorless. To have that player, on let's say, Wave 8, walk into the warm embrace of one of the big guys, not because of any tactical misstep on the part of the player, but due simply to some totally implausible act of teleportation? Well, to me, that seems like a mighty lousy way of ending a game.
Since the traders are apparently just electronic kiosks in KF2, maybe if people are obviously delaying the end of a wave, for whatever reason, the location of the trading kiosk scheduled to open should start to change in response. This probably wouldn't penalize a sole-remaining player too much in the situation I outlined in the paragraph, above. (When you're dancing with Death as a sole-survivor, the trading location isn't that big on your list of priorities.) But, in any other case, it would otherwise make it in everyone's benefit to quickly hunt down and "off" that last zed, because if that doesn't happen within X seconds, they'll discover the active trading kiosk has just moved 150 meters from where it previously was scheduled to open.
The way it stands now, I'm for removing this teleportation dynamic before the game goes Gold.
+1
The teleportation mechanic is awful and has no place in KF. I am really disappointed Tripwire deemed it a good idea. Trying to survive as the last man alive is a death sentence since SC and FP are conveniently placed right in your path. Horrible game mechanic.
The teleportation mechanic is awful and has no place in KF. I am really disappointed Tripwire deemed it a good idea. Trying to survive as the last man alive is a death sentence since SC and FP are conveniently placed right in your path. Horrible game mechanic.
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Oh yeah I definitely agree there, the auto-killing was also a pretty bad idea, but a necessary one at the time because, frankly, pathing wasn't great and zeds got stuck ALL the time.
The teleporting feels awkward and contrived right now. But honestly, I don't know if it isn't simply a loose system that was implemented that way to get some feedback and improvement to ultimately tweak it with acceptable values.
I almost feel like if it was implemented with a larger timer and more consideration towards the position of the zed and the player it could work pretty well.
It can also be a placeholder mechanic altogheter while they work on something more elegant, but given how polished the game is in general, I feel that's not the case.
I don't like it either, it makes welding doors pointless and sucks a lot of the tactics out of the game.
That said, I would be okay if the crawlers and maybe clots had "alternate passageways" they could "warp" with, as it makes sense for them (especially crawlers) but for the bigger guys? Running halfway across the block away from a lumbering Scrake only to run into him when you open a previously shut door feels tacky and cheap.
That said, I would be okay if the crawlers and maybe clots had "alternate passageways" they could "warp" with, as it makes sense for them (especially crawlers) but for the bigger guys? Running halfway across the block away from a lumbering Scrake only to run into him when you open a previously shut door feels tacky and cheap.
I also feel that the main thing that makes this feel this bad is that it happens with larger zeds, because they are encounters which can benefit a lot from proper kiting and positioning.
I think the problem is they ALWAYS use the closest spawn point to the player, so EVERY corner you turn there is a zed (or some zeds).
Disabling the spawn points too close to the player will do the trick for me, if this is done, I am ok if you teleport the zeds.
Using the closest spawn point also make 1-3 player games stupidly hard in HOE or suicidal. Because at the start of the wave, you need to blow away a path to run, and if there's a scrake/FP in your way, your small squad will just die.
As a long time KF1 player, nearly all my deaths in KF2 with 1-3 players are at the start of the wave. The game should encourage you to have 6 players, but it should not be 1000 times harder with lower player count.
Disabling the spawn points too close to the player will do the trick for me, if this is done, I am ok if you teleport the zeds.
Using the closest spawn point also make 1-3 player games stupidly hard in HOE or suicidal. Because at the start of the wave, you need to blow away a path to run, and if there's a scrake/FP in your way, your small squad will just die.
As a long time KF1 player, nearly all my deaths in KF2 with 1-3 players are at the start of the wave. The game should encourage you to have 6 players, but it should not be 1000 times harder with lower player count.