Any thoughts on rewarding suppression?

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Proud_God

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Dec 22, 2005
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Giving points for suppression is a bad idea. Y'all need to stop trying to design a carrot to dangle in front of people. If game mechanics are right, people will start suppressing because they want to, you know, suppress the enemy (instead of leveling up their trophee points). This, imo, is achieved, as has been mentioned before a number of times, by: increasing fear of death & reducing insta rock steady IS.
 
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Cpt-Praxius

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 12, 2005
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Giving points for suppression is a bad idea. Y'all need to stop trying to design a carrot to dangle in front of people. If game mechanics are right, people will start suppressing because they want to, you know, suppress the enemy (instead of leveling up their trophee points). This, imo, is achieved, as has been mentioned before a number of times, by: increasing fear of death & reducing insta rock steady IS.

And in equal fashion, y'all need to stop trying to find ways to punish players and make the game less fun in order to try and force players to play the way you think they should.

Increasing fear of death by making people sit around in spawn and doing nothing for longer won't work.... and going back to drunken weapon sway like in Ostfront is a step backwards, not forwards.
 

Proud_God

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Dec 22, 2005
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And in equal fashion, y'all need to stop trying to find ways to punish players and make the game less fun in order to try and force players to play the way you think they should.

Increasing fear of death by making people sit around in spawn and doing nothing for longer won't work.... and going back to drunken weapon sway like in Ostfront is a step backwards, not forwards.

You don't want people to suppress soley because it gives them points.
It would either be ignored, thus wasting dev time, or people who like to hoard points will feel obligated to suppress, eventually relaizing the emptiness of their actions. Also, I am not talking about weapon sway, as has been mentioned again and again.
 

PhoenixDragon

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Dec 3, 2011
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You already get +1 point (called a Kill Assist) for suppressing an enemy that is then killed by a friendly while the enemy remains suppressed.

If you got a kill assist, you actually hit them. Kill assists are awarded to players in a pawn's DamageCausers array, and the only way I see to get in that array is if you caused damage to them. Suppression doesn't touch it, nor does the game remember who caused suppression to a pawn.
 

Cwivey

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 14, 2011
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In the hills! (of England)
If you got a kill assist, you actually hit them. Kill assists are awarded to players in a pawn's DamageCausers array, and the only way I see to get in that array is if you caused damage to them. Suppression doesn't touch it, nor does the game remember who caused suppression to a pawn.

Must've grazed them then, without a blood spatter appearing or a hit sound playing. :<
 

Cpt-Praxius

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Dec 12, 2005
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You don't want people to suppress soley because it gives them points.
It would either be ignored, thus wasting dev time, or people who like to hoard points will feel obligated to suppress, eventually relaizing the emptiness of their actions. Also, I am not talking about weapon sway, as has been mentioned again and again.

Do you honestly care if people start suppressing more in order to get points? :confused:

More suppression of the enemy is a good thing for your entire team.

Who cares what reasons people use for suppressing, so long as they suppress the enemy and prevent them from firing back? If someone starts suppressing the enemy more in order to get a few extra points or being noted for it on the final score board, I say all the power to them. They're making my & everybody else's life easier.

Their motives for doing so are none of my concern.
 
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Proud_God

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 22, 2005
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I just don't think slapping points on suppression is the right way to tackle the issue. The problem lies with the person receiveing fire not being suppressed enough, and points can't fix that.
 
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Cpt-Praxius

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 12, 2005
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I just don't think slapping points on suppression is the right way to tackle the issue. The problem lies with the person receiveing fire not being suppressed enough, and points can't fix that.

Well I'm suppressed enough and even when one bullet comes at me, I either head for cover, hit the deck or run the hell out of there to the closest cover.... the current suppression system, imo, works just fine as it screws up your screen and makes it difficult to see your sights clearly, not to mention the flinch jerking action that happens so often.... that person being suppressed is already at a disadvantage and if they don't get their head down, then they stand a huge chance at getting killed..... and they'd deserve it.

The only problem I see is that few people use the suppression properly to produce the above effects on a player to put them at such a disadvantage.... if you try and shoot accurately at them to kill them & save your ammo, and miss, then they're not going to be as suppressed as they would be if you spammed a bunch of rounds at the guy.

I've seen it first hand in the last couple of days playing.

On Grain Elevator as German MG, I had my team getting chewed up by marksmen in the top floor of the grain elevator.... I laid down a pile of rounds in and around the windows and they kept their heads down for a good 30 seconds.... not just from the suppression effects in the game, but also from thinking that I am still trained on the windows waiting to turn their heads into mush.... which I was. :cool:

On Fallen Fighters as the Tank Commander, I covered my team with HE rounds and MG fire towards the Russians.... and when I'd see some russians run off out in the open, I unloaded HE rounds around them and heavy MG fire to the point several dropped to prone as soon as they could.... I kept a fix on them and could see them crawling along the cover trying to relocate without me seeing them.

While all of the above was happening when I used Suppression properly, they were not a threat to anybody on my team..... if they attempted to pop out after being suppressed so heavily and fire back at myself or my team, I was ready to finish them off with direct kills.

If I see someone standing out in the open and firing back after being shot at, chances are they weren't suppressed in the first place..... thus players need more incentives to use suppression more often and properly.... in order to entice players to do this properly, they need to have some way of indicating that they've suppressed enough.

Points are one of those ways without making any drastic gameplay adjustments or adding more to the suppression system.

my opinion of course.
 
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PhoenixDragon

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 3, 2011
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The only problem I see is that few people use the suppression properly to produce the above effects on a player to put them at such a disadvantage.... if you try and shoot accurately at them to kill them & save your ammo, and miss, then they're not going to be as suppressed as they would be if you spammed a bunch of rounds at the guy.

With the way the game is, missing and suppressing is typically worse than hitting. It can be much worse, in fact, with the flaws in the suppression system that means a miss may not even suppress, play a "whip" sound, or kick your aim at all.
 

Golf33

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 29, 2005
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So it's the usual story - if the bugs were fixed, the game would work better...

There's very little point doing anything to tweak suppression effects or scoring as long add rounds that pass close to players but do not impact close to them fail to cause suppression.
 
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Golf33

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 29, 2005
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First off, suppression (And bullet whips/snaps) is bugged at the moment. It only works if you're within 9 meters of the path of an instant-hit shot (The muzzle is over something at <=50m for a rifle, <=25m for SMG/MKb/Pistol), or else, if you're within 9m of where a bullet impacts terrain. This means that, quite frequently, you won't even get any suppression or bullet sound. Someone at long range, particularly prone, will have the majority of misses land beyond the 9m suppression range, and even those that do land inside it are likely to do fairly little.
Do you know if TWI is aware of / working on this?

If they don't feel like fixing it, is it something that could be adjusted by a mutator so that suppression and bullet snaps occur whenever a round passes by or impacts terrain within 1m of a player?
 

Rabid Penguin

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 6, 2007
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Ipswich, Queensland, Australia
I reckon the reaction to suppression needs to tweaked so that it is more like an instinctive flinch, rather than only making your weapon jerk.. It seems to me that IRL you would instinctively try to make yourself the smallest target by pulling your limbs in as close as possible to your body, or flatten yourself as close to the ground as possible if prone. Would there be any way to make that happen when suppressed?
 

Nikita

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 5, 2011
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With the way the game is, missing and suppressing is typically worse than hitting. It can be much worse, in fact, with the flaws in the suppression system that means a miss may not even suppress, play a "whip" sound, or kick your aim at all.

Phoenix, one thing I've been wondering some time--would you happen to know if there are any effects on aim from actually getting hit? It looks to me like getting hit while in iron sights jostles your aim for an instant, but then your sights re-center immediately on the point you were just aiming at, unlike suppression...
 

LugNut

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 12, 2011
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It seems to me that IRL you would instinctively try to make yourself the smallest target by pulling your limbs in as close as possible to your body, or flatten yourself as close to the ground as possible if prone. Would there be any way to make that happen when suppressed?

I like this....
 

Rabid Penguin

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 6, 2007
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Ipswich, Queensland, Australia
Phoenix, one thing I've been wondering some time--would you happen to know if there are any effects on aim from actually getting hit? It looks to me like getting hit while in iron sights jostles your aim for an instant, but then your sights re-center immediately on the point you were just aiming at, unlike suppression...

If you're actually hit, you should really "reset to zero" so to speak, not just have your aim disturbed slightly.
 

CocaineInMyBrain

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 8, 2011
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I reckon the reaction to suppression needs to tweaked so that it is more like an instinctive flinch, rather than only making your weapon jerk.. It seems to me that IRL you would instinctively try to make yourself the smallest target by pulling your limbs in as close as possible to your body, or flatten yourself as close to the ground as possible if prone. Would there be any way to make that happen when suppressed?

Prone is already insanely glitchy as it is, this just screams bugs galore.
 

Nikita

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 5, 2011
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If you're actually hit, you should really "reset to zero" so to speak, not just have your aim disturbed slightly.

If you mean knocking the player out of iron sights, that's not a bad idea.

A large disturbance of aim would be effective as well.

Just curious what's actually coded at the moment.