Any survivalist buffs?

  • Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

Humam2104

Active member
Jul 1, 2020
505
97
28
We've seen the movement speed skill that SWAT got. I'm curious to see what they have to offer for Survivalists.
P.S. Yes, some people think Survivalist is strong enough and probably think it needs a nerf along with all the other perks. But other people don't.
 

CitronVert

Member
May 17, 2015
79
18
8
Survivalist needs nerfs overall, not buffs, and even if we had to absolutely buff something, movement speed would be the worst possible choice. He already has Melee Expert and resistance, so buffing his survivability would just make it another class that can kite endlessly while the other, non-broken perks are dead. Do we really need more of that?

P.S. Yes, some people think Survivalist is strong enough and probably think it needs a nerf along with all the other perks. But other people don't.
It is true that survivalist is not the most broken class currently but that does not mean he's not strong. The issue with survivalist is that 99% of his loadouts are not viable and it's only the remaining 1% that are that make him strong, borderline OP. So if you play the 99% then it's true he's not strong for you. But then the proper fix would be to nerf the 1% first (cough hemoclobber) before asking for buffs to the 99%.
 

flashn00b

Active member
Feb 1, 2011
803
81
28
Only buffs I'd really ask would be the following:

Perk Weapon Damage - From what i've played of Killing Floor 2 since release, there has been no reason to use Survivalist weapons when juggling between the guns of other perks is more effective
Tactical Reload - Applies to Field Medic, Survivalist and Berserker weapons on top of the pre-existing SWAT/Gunslinger/Commando bonuses. I feel like the faster reloading of Survivalist weapons should be an unconditional bonus at Level 5, and the Field Medic's arsenal is often some variation of rapid fire weapon with a healing dart. Berserker's inclusion in this skill is mostly because you'll likely be using the Pulverizer as your big zed killer due to SWAT and Commando weapons not sufficing due to a lack of Hollow Point Rounds
Heavy Weapons Training - Applies to Firebug, Survivalist and Berserker weapons on top of the pre-existing Support/Sharpshooter/Demolitionist bonuses. The ranged arsenal of the Firebug and Berserker would actually fall under the category of "heavy weapon", since the Eviscerator is a futuristic sawblade gun that's the size of its wielder and the Firebug's schtick is "guns that use large fuel tanks for ammo". See previous point about Survivalist weapon reload speeds needing to be universal
Melee Expert - Just make it something that the Survivalist gets unconditionally at Level 10. The healing bonuses that Medic Training offers pales in comparison to the extra movement speed that Melee Expert offers so even if you're using ranged weapons exclusively, Melee Expert is still the better pick.
New Level 10 skill: CQB Training - To further append to my point about wanting Melee Expert to be an unconditional thing that the Survivalist should get at Level 10, I think it'd be worth it to replace the choice between "better healing vs run faster while also being a better Berserker than Berserker" with "better healing vs better shooting", with both Level 10 skills giving the same 90% bonus damage to melee weapons, faster swinging speed and running faster while brandishing a melee weapon.
Remove lockdown and replace it with something useful - As it currently stands, there's no reason to pick Lockdown at all since shooting all guns at near-real time speeds is far more useful. I think a better thing to do would be to have a weaker version of Whirlwind of Lead where ammo would still be spent but as soon as your mag runs dry, the gun will be reloaded instantaneously. I can see something like this being especially useful with weapons such as the RPG-7, M99 and Railgun as those single shot weapons will suddenly have the same RoF as an AA-12

As of right now, I think the Survivalist is in a pretty good position, though there are several annoyances I have with perk skill selections where some skills are obviously better than others.
 

OnionBubs

Active member
Apr 27, 2021
112
38
28
The issue with survivalist is that 99% of his loadouts are not viable and it's only the remaining 1% that are that make him strong, borderline OP. So if you play the 99% then it's true he's not strong for you. But then the proper fix would be to nerf the 1% first (cough hemoclobber) before asking for buffs to the 99%.
This.
Survivalist doesn't need a nerf, the game's more busted weapons are what need toning down. SURV trades killing power for tanking damage and they're always going to be subpar at any particular role, which is...whatever, I guess. It doesn't really make sense to me to have a jack-of-all-trades in a game about picking specialist roles, but they've been in the game since 2016 and I sincerely doubt TWI will walk that back 5 years down the line.

(In line with @CitronVert above, I honestly wouldn't object to reducing or removing the speed boost from Melee Expert so that way Berserker gets the better distinction of movement speed with Skirmisher.)

Having said that: I see no reason why SURV shouldn't be able to reload Survivalist/perkless weapons faster. That's the only "buff" I'd argue they really need.

Perk Weapon Damage - From what i've played of Killing Floor 2 since release, there has been no reason to use Survivalist weapons when juggling between the guns of other perks is more effective
No. Survivalist is supposed to be weaker than the other perks. Too many damage buffs and you surpass the specialist perks on kill thresholds, which is a no-no.

Berserker's inclusion in this skill is mostly because you'll likely be using the Pulverizer as your big zed killer due to SWAT and Commando weapons not sufficing due to a lack of Hollow Point Rounds
I'm just gonna say this entire sentence confuses me.

SURV's HVT killer is the Railgun because it's downright silly with Madman. Accept no substitutes.

And why on earth would anyone attempt SWAT or Commando weapons as HVT killers on a perk that doesn't get extended clips or hit a damage threshold that allows them to 1-clip HVTs? Trash killing, sure: the P90 and SCAR suffice for that with reload bonuses. But HVTs? Madness.
 

flashn00b

Active member
Feb 1, 2011
803
81
28
No. Survivalist is supposed to be weaker than the other perks. Too many damage buffs and you surpass the specialist perks on kill thresholds, which is a no-no.
I am aware, though since he has perk weapons of his own in the form of the Freezethrower, Killerwatt and Arc Projector, I feel that it's necessary for him to give bonuses to his own weapons. As it currently stands, there's no reason to get Survivalist weapons with the Survivalist perk since the usage of guns belonging to other perks are a much better option.

And why on earth would anyone attempt SWAT or Commando weapons as HVT killers on a perk that doesn't get extended clips or hit a damage threshold that allows them to 1-clip HVTs? Trash killing, sure: the P90 and SCAR suffice for that with reload bonuses. But HVTs? Madness.
I'm saying that you wouldn't use Commando or SWAT weapons as HVT killers. However, if you are using the Tactical Reload skill, you wouldn't benefit from the Railgun since that's a Heavy Weapons Training weapon. What i'm trying to say is that a Tactical Reload-based loadout will most likely be forced to incorporate Berserker weapons as an HVT killer since SWAT and Commando weapons are anything but adequate for that job.
 

Humam2104

Active member
Jul 1, 2020
505
97
28
The issue with survivalist is that 99% of his loadouts are not viable and it's only the remaining 1% that are that make him strong, borderline OP.
That means their weapons are broken. Not his skills. It is a good enough reason to buff him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Agent Pickles