Any Berserkers, Firebugs, or Demolitions here?

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Johnny86

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 8, 2010
85
8
0
@SIL

I had no idea that when the FP attacks it resets the rage timer. I was wondering why I was able to use this tactic and drop FPs w/o raging them. Thanks for the insight.

On topic:
From reading all the resent posts, the "weaker" perks don't really seem that weak. They only seem weak because they require different tactics other than "point and shoot".

@Lewt

There are alot of tips on this thread to help you use these perks. I suggest you mess around with some of these play styles and you might find yourself owning face.
 

Johnny Darko

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 7, 2010
254
13
0
People shouldn't play perks that don't go into other perk's territory because they are unbalanced, it makes the game actually somewhat of a challenge! I need my Crossbow to one-hit every enemy in the game otherwise I couldn't possibly survive a second on Suicidal.

At least, that's what I get from this thread. The only perk I would even consider to be somewhat useless is the Firebug, for obvious reasons that I hope Tripwire addresses soon. Demolitions is centralized on crowd control and does it the best out of any perk, even beating out Commando in speed at clearing a horde of small zeds while still being able to majorly harm the big specimens, something Commando definitely can't say. Berserker acts as a shield for the rest of the team and can easily dispatch everything up to an FP, and you can even clear those out if you have the expertise as shown in this thread.
 

9_6

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 4, 2009
2,461
727
0
Katana berserker + crossbow can pretty much solo the entire game.
The key difference to the m14 spammer is that it requires skill and tactical decisions.
 

outofrealman

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 29, 2009
1,848
336
0
By just looking at the vedios, I dont see how a zerker can really do anything to a full health 6-man suicidal fp. As both vedios:

1. several player is DEAD, so the health of fps will not be 6-man health.

2. Both vedio requires a really open area to kite the fp, also, pray for the fp dont use his double punch much, as he can instan kill a 6lv zerker with around 20 armour and full health when raged. And hell, if you dodge the attacks of fps before he rages, he will rage cos he can hit anything for some time. If you take his hits, your armour will be gone and hurt badly for just killing one fp.

So now can anyone tell me how much of the time a 6-man team run around the map instead of camping at one area?
So, how many times you can have this opened area to kite and kill a fp?


When playing a 6-man suicidal game, nearly everytime gorefast will come with siren or crawlers. So what do you do? Risk your ears to pop or surround by crawlers to kill gorefasts? Or risk to be chopped to pull out ranged weapons to shoot crawlers? On suicidal EVERYTHING is fast. Ah... and yes, that wont happen most of the time cos 99% of zeds will be dead before they can get near you on a 6-man game.

What zerkers really do is playing as meatshield.... they stand at the front to absord dmg from sneaky crawlers or fire ball from husks. But medic do much better as a meatshield as medics can take more than 5 attacks from raged fps.

I can solo any official map as zerker except office. I can also dodge more than 70% of fire balls from husks. But all these dont work on 6-man game. My armour is gone long before I can complain I have nothing to kill from random husk fire balls/crawlers drop from the ceiling/bloat explosion from a headless bloat, etc. I cant dodge husk fire balls on team game mainly because of teammate blocks. And most of the time the husk is not even targeting me.

Ah... sometimes I just desided to rambo on maps like farm and wyre, at lease I have something to do, LOL. Or I am forced to switch to other perks on wave 7-10.

As for demo, if I dont care about I may have nothing to shoot most of the time, this perk works really well. Especially when I have teamates to save.

Firebug, no love in this perk. The only perk still @ lv5.
 
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Honda

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 10, 2010
38
13
0
I'm seriously lost as to why some people consider Berserker to be a 'good' or effective perk.

I not only see the Berserker right up to par with the other perks, I personally see the Berserker perk as the best perk in the game.

Yes, you read right. :)

But, as always, it heavily depends on the player behind the perk more than anything else!

Naturally, a melee based fighting style is more difficult to master than a ranged one in first person shooters. It takes some more skill and awareness roaming around and not getting too much damage than sitting in the right spot and just fire away.

I personally don't know any situations in KF which I couldn't handle on my own as a Berserker (yes, 2 fp's, you got me on this one...). Sure, there are special situations where you face a bunch of sirens for example, which you maybe can't melee on suicidal. But it's not like you don't have the opportunity to also carry some ranged weapons like the xbow or ak47+m79.

I play that perk 99% of the time, and I never got any problems in the game, after which I thought "with another perk I would've survived this".

If you know how to play properly and be of help for your squad, there is no disadvantage to the Berserker perk compared to other perks.
 

9_6

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 4, 2009
2,461
727
0
When playing a 6-man suicidal game, nearly everytime gorefast will come with siren or crawlers. So what do you do? Risk your ears to pop or surround by crawlers to kill gorefasts? Or risk to be chopped to pull out ranged weapons to shoot crawlers? On suicidal EVERYTHING is fast. Ah... and yes, that wont happen most of the time cos 99% of zeds will be dead before they can get near you on a 6-man game.

What zerkers really do is playing as meatshield.... they stand at the front to absord dmg from sneaky crawlers or fire ball from husks. But medic do much better as a meatshield as medics can take more than 5 attacks from raged fps.
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=34151
 
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Lewt

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 5, 2010
404
112
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I was planning to quote specific people, and make a longer post, but I'm fairly short on time and didn't really expect so many to reply.

Mostly I'm seeing these things:

"Perk X/Y/Z is useful because it can do ONE thing more, or because it fills more of a niche role" They tend to be dead weight more often than not.

"In my opinion, X/Y/Z perk is the absolute best in the game, because I'm good at it" Well, cool, you've practiced a lot/have natural talent and are amazing at this game, congratulations.

"*Link to soloing suicidal*"

Damn impressive, but see above.

"Well, perk X/Y/Z is extremely fun! There's nothing like bashing heads in and blowing up specimens!" I don't disagree, really, as I purposely use the 'weaker' perks if my team doesn't mind it.

"You speak about unbalance and ramboing, no offense but you must learn to play." Direct quote. Saying 'no offense' doesn't make anything less insulting. I mentioned 'ramboing' to cover multiple bases, as in, "Perk X cannot/has a nearly impossible time trying to solo, and with a team, he is less useful to them".


To fill people in about me, I've logged ~500 hours on public servers and with friends (on just the Steam versions of KF, starting from the Christmas sale) and have spent nearly all my time as combination roles. All perks at 6 except for berserker and firebug at 5 (firebug is a pain to get damage for, but I play it often). I tend to avoid suicidal simply because the people who play it are.. to put it bluntly, stupid. A game's a game, and I'd rather not have to practice or play more than once every couple days to be able to enjoy it.

Saying that a perk is good because you're good.. isn't really true. Obviously this can apply to me if I were to say "Well, I'm a horrible berserker, so therefore berserker must be horrible itself". Except, well, I didn't.
 

Phada

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 24, 2010
190
62
0
France
phada.2ya.com
The second video shows a big AI flaw, the FP should normally get frustrated after 10sec walking behind his target which results by getting enraged on the next hit, and in this enrage condition he must at least hit the target once before be able to calm down.

Also the beauty of a zerker is that you can level multiple perks if you want/need to .Just buy katana,bullpup for stalkers and M79 - this way you can level 4 perks "at same time" while playing
katana to level zerker,bullpup to level commando,M79 to level demo and i used to use a lot 9mm for crawlers ,so headshots with 9 mm and you also leveling sharpshooter
This nice tip deserve some rep.

(didn't read all reply no time right now)
 

thejiggliestpuff

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 24, 2010
15
40
0
I always play zerker for the beginning few rounds. This is because at lvl 6, after wave 0, you can go straight for a katana and assuming you didnt get hurt, you don't even need to repair armor. This way you are already set and can easily earn money for your other classes. I never have to change to another class until the round that fleshpounds arrive.
 
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outofrealman

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 29, 2009
1,848
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Yeah, I dont believe I actually read every words in that post. But, sadly NOTHING new to me. I play zerker A LOT, I get 15M dmg already. That post help me nothing on 6-man suicidal because many of the points are just theory flooring.

Quick example, every ss in the sane mind can tell the newbies who play ss "should" shoot fps and scrakes ASAP when they spot them. But what really happens is they come with a bunch of crawlers and gorefasts. If you shoot the big target first, you're DEAD FOR SURE. Oh, people who like to theory-floor must want to say you have teammates.

But hell, how do you know your teamates are paying attention to the same direction of yours? And even you have a teamate to back you up, usually there are too many priority targets for both of you. As your teamate know you are ss with xbow, he suppose to clean up anything aside fps aand scrakes for you. And what about you as a ss? You have a nearly raged fp in the front, following with one or more sirens and bloat, a husk is also shooting at your team at the far back of the big group of zeds. And not to mention those "ALWAYS THERE" crawlers and gorefasts. So, IT ALWAYS DEPENDS, most of the time those "golden rules" just dont work. I dont believe anyone can give advises without "IF".

At least any other perks have ranged weapons, you can fall back a bit to clean up those crawlers and gorefasts before the scrakes and fps. But what about zerkers!? Most of the time you have no choice but to back off and do nothing. Yeah, you must say pull out back up weapon weapon and shoot, SO WHY SHOULD I PLAY ZERKER THEN? When everytime you pull out your melee weapon, you are forcced to switch to back up weapons for sirens and crawlers and you dont have much space to run, why dont I just use another perk?

Still, I am forced to switch to other perks at wave 7-10. Any experienced zerker can run around all over the map and do their job like many zerker vedios/posts did, but that's just ramboing on mutiplayer. Staying with the team means you give up the wide open area which suitable for you as no team will defend a wide open area in my experience. And half of your ability is locked in that suituation. If i want to rambo, I can enjoy much more if I paly solo.
 
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timur

FNG / Fresh Meat
I was planning to quote specific people, and make a longer post, but I'm fairly short on time and didn't really expect so many to reply.

Mostly I'm seeing these things:

"Perk X/Y/Z is useful because it can do ONE thing more, or because it fills more of a niche role" They tend to be dead weight more often than not.
.

Well, in the case of the demo, it really is those couple more things that really can make quite a difference. (Yes, I said a couple because I had more than one reason.)

I argue solely for the demo in this case due to the fact that everybody is too busy defending the zerker and firebug to notice.

However, if you start really playing demo, I think you'll know what I mean. I don't mean that in an *ssholish way, just as a way of politely saying you might not be doing something quite right here, and since I don't know you, I don't know what your missing.

I know the demo perk inside and out... 15.8 million explosive damage wasn't gotten welding doors or putting pipebombs on my head.

So really the demo is more of a hybrid of Support and Commando specialities. The range and accuracy of a commando, combined with the power and splash of the support. Of course, it has unique drawbacks, which would make anyone trying to fire a m79 point-blank feel like it's useless.

I won't go into all the various reasons of demo power right now however. And really, you can't so much put it on paper....you have to experience it. The demo perk requires some learning, some feild experience, some experimentation. The only way your going to get a decent expereince here is if you head out and find it on your own.

Happy trails!
 

Salad Snake

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 2, 2010
875
148
0
33
Honolulu, Hawaii
I would say that Demo is fine, relatively on par with the other "main" perks. If anything it could use a tad more damage so that it was more useful on suicidal. That might overpower it on normal and hard though. Alternately, he could receive a reload bonus for the M32 only.

The reason I'd say Zerker is a worthwhile perk is that it's the easiest to solo with, or at least should be on paper. A sword never needs to reload, so it can continue putting out damage indefinitely with less (or no) period of vulnerability (like a gun), limited only by the reflexes and situational awareness of the user. However, as we all know the Zerker IS vulnerable at time, like crawler swarms and Sirens. So it's really a toss-up as to if it really is powerful enough imo. Certainly it's one of the most unique and fun perks.


Firebug, I'd agree needs something extra. Hence, the update. All I can really say on that topic is that I would love the idea of Firebug becoming a booster perk for the others (i.e.: Making burning zeds take more damage in addition to the slowing down it already does, have crisping interupt attacks, etc). Since damage over time is by nature inferior to spike damage (say, Sharpshooter) you'd already have a balancing nerf built-in: Firebug is the worst at soloing due to the flamethrower's ho-hum damage-to-ammo ratio, but best for groups or in groups. It'd be the opposite of what he is today.
 
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Zaku212

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 9, 2010
102
38
0
The boglands of ireland :(
I love using firebug, It's a lovely class to be if you happen to get cornered due to a stupid mistake, you can fwoosh your way out pretty easily, this combined with either dual HC's or a katana can be a really effective mix.

Zerker, is just not my cup of tea.

I love playing demo, but don't find it very effective on suicidal.. Plus if you're the last one alive it's flip all use.
 

Lewt

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 5, 2010
404
112
0
Edit: I love how 3 people dislike my original post, when I am asking for input. It's like saying "I don't know what you mean. Can you explain?" and getting downrated. Unless of course, people just feel a bit defensive about their favorite perks and can't stand a little criticism.

Just maxed berserker last night, -only- used it since I made this thread, on normal then hard public servers. Honestly it's not nearly as bad as I thought it would be, but it still feels terribly lacking. One mistake and suddenly you're missing half your armor because of one crawler you didn't see behind that decapped bloat. With commando teammates I'd have them buy a SCAR for me with my spare cash near the last waves (because everyone is a millionaire, so why the hell not) which led to me using it in order to one hit massive groups of crawlers and pick off sirens in a horde.

Also, I once heard that a berserker with a katana + crossbow could solo pretty much anything. As a practice run with level 5, I started up a game with 4x the number of enemies (Faked Players mutator, very useful) in West London, and had a VERY hard time - was down to 40HP and no armor at one point. This was normal mode. Although I managed to survive, it dissuaded me from trying again on hard.

Katana/Fire Axe/SCAR(or any AR/Handcannon) was the usual loadout. If you have the space, a fire axe is actually fairly handy for Fleshpounds, but not much else. Hard to kite those cramped maps like Biolabs though. Crawlers were honestly the largest problem - seeing as how they're pretty much everywhere, as fast as I am with a 9mm in hand, and deal decent damage once my armor is below a certain point. Under ideal conditions like a low ping, not totally surrounded, etc, I can take them on with a katana, with a ~70% success rate of midair hits.

But now I have even more sympathy for the zerker; after the twentieth time a twitchy demo or commando decides that I need some help with the group of four clots and a couple gores directly in front of me. Of course all the clots are dead, and one gorefast is left by the time the three nades and twenty bullets reach me, but hey, it's the thought that counts.

Then there was that RE1 mansion story map, in which I played zerker on normal to conserve ammo and thin out crowds. Problem is, my team accused me of "ramboing" the entire time. I was healing more than the medic and everyone else, not going away from the group, and generally acting as a meat shield to keep teammates alive (they weren't the best in the world..) This led to them not telling me when the next area was available and trying to get me killed. Of course I was the last one to die, all three times, in the same spot.

I'll admit that with a 'perfect' team of half decent, knowledgeable players, berserker is usable. It's simply outclassed by the other perks. However, with that said, it's not the perk for me. If anyone wants to tell me what exactly I did wrong to make berserker feel like such a 'bad' perk, feel free to do so.

Will attempt either firebug or demo next. Preferably not demo seeing as how that's already at 6.5m.



Now for argument time.. hooray. Based on my experiences with it in the past, and seeing others use it recently, demo doesn't deal enough damage at all with his nades, even with the +60% or so damage with them. Hell, a level 6 demo on normal may not be able to kill a gorefast with a direct hit. I AM "good" enough to not hurt or blow myself up with nades, and know how to aim to deal splash damage to every spec in a group in nearly every situation, yet it still seems limited to being useful in large custom maps.
A recommendation as to what weapons I should use would be nice.


Side note; should I reset my perks? Now I feel like there's no reason to actually play a specific one anymore - which means I'll pretty much be using 2 perks for all situations until I'm horrible with everything else. Starting over from normal/hard at level 0 sounds fun, but I'll definitely miss using the ones that took time to level up such as medic.
 
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timur

FNG / Fresh Meat
Just maxed berserker last night, -only- used it since I made this thread, on normal then hard public servers. Honestly it's not nearly as bad as I thought it would be, but it still feels terribly lacking. One mistake and suddenly you're missing half your armor because of one crawler you didn't see behind that decapped bloat. With commando teammates I'd have them buy a SCAR for me with my spare cash near the last waves (because everyone is a millionaire, so why the hell not) which led to me using it in order to one hit massive groups of crawlers and pick off sirens in a horde.

Also, I once heard that a berserker with a katana + crossbow could solo pretty much anything. As a practice run with level 5, I started up a game with 4x the number of enemies (Faked Players mutator, very useful) in West London, and had a VERY hard time - was down to 40HP and no armor at one point. This was normal mode. Although I managed to survive, it dissuaded me from trying again on hard.

Katana/Fire Axe/SCAR(or any AR/Handcannon) was the usual loadout. If you have the space, a fire axe is actually fairly handy for Fleshpounds, but not much else. Hard to kite those cramped maps like Biolabs though. Crawlers were honestly the largest problem - seeing as how they're pretty much everywhere, as fast as I am with a 9mm in hand, and deal decent damage once my armor is below a certain point. Under ideal conditions like a low ping, not totally surrounded, etc, I can take them on with a katana, with a ~70% success rate of midair hits.

But now I have even more sympathy for the zerker; after the twentieth time a twitchy demo or commando decides that I need some help with the group of four clots and a couple gores directly in front of me. Of course all the clots are dead, and one gorefast is left by the time the three nades and twenty bullets reach me, but hey, it's the thought that counts.

Then there was that RE1 mansion story map, in which I played zerker on normal to conserve ammo and thin out crowds. Problem is, my team accused me of "ramboing" the entire time. I was healing more than the medic and everyone else, not going away from the group, and generally acting as a meat shield to keep teammates alive (they weren't the best in the world..) This led to them not telling me when the next area was available and trying to get me killed. Of course I was the last one to die, all three times, in the same spot.

I'll admit that with a 'perfect' team of half decent, knowledgeable players, berserker is usable. It's simply outclassed by the other perks. However, with that said, it's not the perk for me. If anyone wants to tell me what exactly I did wrong to make berserker feel like such a 'bad' perk, feel free to do so.

Will attempt either firebug or demo next. Preferably not demo seeing as how that's already at 6.5m.



Now for argument time.. hooray. Based on my experiences with it in the past, and seeing others use it recently, demo doesn't deal enough damage at all with his nades, even with the +60% or so damage with them. Hell, a level 6 demo on normal may not be able to kill a gorefast with a direct hit. I AM "good" enough to not hurt or blow myself up with nades, and know how to aim to deal splash damage to every spec in a group in nearly every situation, yet it still seems limited to being useful in large custom maps.
A recommendation as to what weapons I should use would be nice.


Side note; should I reset my perks? Now I feel like there's no reason to actually play a specific one anymore - which means I'll pretty much be using 2 perks for all situations until I'm horrible with everything else. Starting over from normal/hard at level 0 sounds fun, but I'll definitely miss using the ones that took time to level up such as medic.

Not being able to kill a gorefast in a direct hit on normal?

That's odd. I recall seeing that only happen on suicidal. Perhaps there have been some patches since I last played demo.
 

Lewt

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 5, 2010
404
112
0
I thought it could happen with ~5, 6 players in a server. I'd go test it but I don't feel like crashing a normal game with demo, and the faked players mut doesn't raise specimen HP.
 

9_6

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 4, 2009
2,461
727
0
Also, I once heard that a berserker with a katana + crossbow could solo pretty much anything. As a practice run with level 5, I started up a game with 4x the number of enemies (Faked Players mutator, very useful) in West London, and had a VERY hard time - was down to 40HP and no armor at one point. This was normal mode. Although I managed to survive, it dissuaded me from trying again on hard.
Well I pretty much single handedly pulled a whole 6 man team of newbs on manor, hard through all 10 waves with that earlier this day.
Fun times.
You have to be REALLY good at quickly hipfiring that crossbow though so you can stun/kill husks instantly and kill a line of crawlers.

It ain't easy but that's why I like it. Keeps me awake.
 

outofrealman

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 29, 2009
1,848
336
0
The thing is, if your team is defending a long hallway, zeds will die long before they can reach your team. And you wont rish your life to stay far away from your team unless you want to rambo. So you are constanly using your ranged weapons with no bonus to shoot those zeds far away or swarm of crawlers.

If the hallway is short, you again wont risk your lift to stay at the front as a pair of siren can instan-kill you. Husks will kill you armour when you are trying to kill zeds that are close. The reason is you cant move freely to dodge the fireballs and you are paying attenetion on the zeds up at your face.

Without armour you may:
1. chopped by 2 or more gorefasts when you are reloading your ranged weapon. (as you are @ the front line)
2. several crawlers keep jumping on you bringing you down to critical and some random exploding bloat/sirens/husks/gorefasts finish the job when your screen is still shaking. (as you are @ the front line and blocking the shots from teamates trying to help you kill the crawlers)
3. stunning a scrake and surrounded by small zeds or a siren show up behind the scrake. (ok, your're dead cos again you are blocking the shots to kill the siren)
4. instan-kill by a raging fleshpound (your are @ the front line! So the fleshpound will target at you for sure!)

How many times zerkers can keep their armour out of ten late game waves? If you play defensively, you are not helping the team. If you play aggresively, you get kill easily.

Ah yes, and zerkers cannot tank.