Why do people say Medics don't need more guns, but they should have another support ability? i.e. another dart of some kind, but without a weapon to attach it to? Would it be better to just have some kind of blowgun to slow down zeds or buff teammates? I love the dual functionality of the MP7, even though it's on the weak side. It's really fun to pop a couple zed heads, heal a teammate, and kill another before reloading. I think another SMG would be great with a tranquilizer dart.
Another Medic gun
- Thread starter Minion
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An idea i have is that the medic gets the P90.
It is the competing gun with the MP7 in terms of Personal Defence Weapons, designed for rear echelon troops. It makes sense that the medic has both PDWs. With a healing dart in place of the 5.7mm ammo, it would allow medics to spam of a couple of rounds and heal a chunk of someone's health in one go, and take away the need to be SS accurate. Mind you the darts would be at most 1/2 as powerful as the MP7 dart.
An example of when this may be useful is when a low perk player is getting raped by a FP/scrake/patty, you could unload half the mag in the player's general direction and keep him alive long enough for the MP7 dart to regenerate.
Anyway, that's my two cents worth.
It is the competing gun with the MP7 in terms of Personal Defence Weapons, designed for rear echelon troops. It makes sense that the medic has both PDWs. With a healing dart in place of the 5.7mm ammo, it would allow medics to spam of a couple of rounds and heal a chunk of someone's health in one go, and take away the need to be SS accurate. Mind you the darts would be at most 1/2 as powerful as the MP7 dart.
An example of when this may be useful is when a low perk player is getting raped by a FP/scrake/patty, you could unload half the mag in the player's general direction and keep him alive long enough for the MP7 dart to regenerate.
Anyway, that's my two cents worth.
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Adrenaline? Wouldn't be a bad idea for someone wounded and trying to fight back into the safety of the team, a medics healing dart will only heal over time and even that is only until the player gets hit.
Would be a believable addition if there were an adrenaline dart he could use to allow his wounded ally to move faster and overcome the wounded slow down effect. Also adrenaline blocks out pain and so may allow the player to survive a little bit more damage before dropping. It would be a pretty good way of avoiding the old crawler/clot slapping the last 10 points of health off you after fighting a Fleshie or something.
Positives:
1) Its believable and has a practical use in the game. Adrenaline would be useful for retreats, or assisting players against dangerous foes or groups by increasing movement speed and reducing damage taken by a small percentage.
2) For wounded retreating players the Medic has to make a decision to either heal the player first or hit him with adrenaline in order to keep him alive. Little fear of it being overpowered.
Negatives:
1) Needs to be implemented properly into the game, be it either by a new gun or a new attachment entirely.
2) How would a dart system allow the Medic to use adrenaline on himself (2 syringes and 2 dart guns kinda takes the Mick)
3) What happens if the medic accidently shoots a Fleshpound
Positives:
1) Its believable and has a practical use in the game. Adrenaline would be useful for retreats, or assisting players against dangerous foes or groups by increasing movement speed and reducing damage taken by a small percentage.
2) For wounded retreating players the Medic has to make a decision to either heal the player first or hit him with adrenaline in order to keep him alive. Little fear of it being overpowered.
Negatives:
1) Needs to be implemented properly into the game, be it either by a new gun or a new attachment entirely.
2) How would a dart system allow the Medic to use adrenaline on himself (2 syringes and 2 dart guns kinda takes the Mick)
The medic already moves very fast, so I don't really feel bad if he doesn't use it on himself. I mean take the fastest player in the game with the best armor, and then increase his speed 10% and lower the damage
3) What happens if the medic accidently shoots a Fleshpound
1 Also, Zerkers will love a medic, and it can speed up the reload times, so that SS and commando use the effect on the offensive.
2 Also for a person still grabbed by clots, the shot could either break the clot hold (not really feeling this) or the damage reduction and increase reload speed, can give the rest of the team a couple more second to get him free to limp back and hide behind the medic
1 A new medic weapon (not much more powerful than the current), still with the epic mark down, but it will give a medic a reason so spend some money, and a 2nd medic weapon to carry.
2 The medic already moves very fast, so I don't really feel bad if he doesn't use it on himself. I mean take the fastest player in the game with the best armor, and then increase his speed 10% and lower the damage
3 I don't think many will agree, but I'm thinking that this dart (and the tranq if it happens) should work on either. accidently miss the FP and tranq your zerker, oops, need to counter act with a adrenal quickly, and vise versa. It will be intresting, and prevent spamming, or random shooting. (along with a short timer, and non stacking effect)
or
Have a random effect on the zeds since they have been modified, the drugs may act differently on them , more stronger weaker, spourting feathers, make them jump like a crawler, some thing random
A tavor with healing darts but you only get 1 healing dart then it takes like 3 seconds then another so you still can heal but at a reduced rate but give the tavor more power in reality just more accuracy. Not to get off topic but MP7 needs to have accuracy changed. I reloaded my MP7 aimed down the site and shot and I'm NOT kidding the bullet came out at a 45 degree angle to the left missing the zed that was 5 feet infront of me. Also make sure that the Tavor and MP7 can be carried so you have Tavor as prim and MP7 as back up/heal gun. Thats fair right I mean then they would be the same as every other class (minus firebug poor firebug) example Commando Scar and AK or Scar and Bullpup.
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thats happened with me on loads of occasions with the dual handcannon's mostly, and other guns but not so much
Why have another gun with healing darts? We have that already. So a new Medic SMG should have either an adrenaline dart for speed/dmg resist boost or a tranquilizer dart to slow down tough enemies.
I actually think the adrenaline dart could offer more gameplay options and be more fun in general than slowing down zeds which may or may not make a real difference. On the other hand, the adrenaline dart would be more of a situational tool i.e. for zerks or saving a teammate, since most players generally camp one spot and don't need speed often. Not crazy about a reload speed boost, if that were the case everyone on the team would want to be jacked constantly, unless there was a slowing down effect when the drug wore off. If a team boost option is implemented, it shouldn't be spammable, so the Medic isn't turned into a full-time crack dealer.
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Hello all. First time poster, long time lurker. Now I'll not skirt around the bush and start out with a disclaimer: I haven't had the game long, I only have one level 5 perk (my Medic) but I love this game. Now, I personally believe the Medic should get some new weapons. SMGs, naturally. Now before I give you guys a general overview of my ideas, as I feel I'm not yet certified to give out specific numbers pertaining to game balance, I would like to share my observations on interweapons balance in KF:
THE BALANCE OF TIERS
I have so far observed that, in Killing Floor, all tiers of weapons fulfill a perks given role adequately. The tier 2 weapons are more powerful overall than their tier 1 counterparts, but both weapons are different enough to warrant circumstances where both find more use than the other. The tier 3 weapons are more powerful than the tier 2 weapons and are straight upgrades to the tier one weapons, creating the same relation between the tier 1&2 weapons but in reverse. Granted, this failed somewhat in certain cases (commando weapons) but it's a balance goal to aspire to. One of the best examples, I feel, is the (*cough*completely Imba*cough*) Sharpshooter weapons.
All the SS weapons fulfill the SS's role: Laying out tough monsters that come in small numbers quickly and efficiently (even if Sharpshooters deal a little too well with crowds... but that's another discussion). Now, the Crossbow is, overall and IMO, more powerful than the Lever Action. However, given that the Lever Action has a faster RoF and more ammo, it's better when dealing with greater amounts of weaker specimens and less likely to get overrun with, while the Crossbow is able to put bruisers like Fleshpounds and Scrakes down in one hit, something the Lever Action can't attest to.
THE BALANCE OF TIERS
I have so far observed that, in Killing Floor, all tiers of weapons fulfill a perks given role adequately. The tier 2 weapons are more powerful overall than their tier 1 counterparts, but both weapons are different enough to warrant circumstances where both find more use than the other. The tier 3 weapons are more powerful than the tier 2 weapons and are straight upgrades to the tier one weapons, creating the same relation between the tier 1&2 weapons but in reverse. Granted, this failed somewhat in certain cases (commando weapons) but it's a balance goal to aspire to. One of the best examples, I feel, is the (*cough*completely Imba*cough*) Sharpshooter weapons.
All the SS weapons fulfill the SS's role: Laying out tough monsters that come in small numbers quickly and efficiently (even if Sharpshooters deal a little too well with crowds... but that's another discussion). Now, the Crossbow is, overall and IMO, more powerful than the Lever Action. However, given that the Lever Action has a faster RoF and more ammo, it's better when dealing with greater amounts of weaker specimens and less likely to get overrun with, while the Crossbow is able to put bruisers like Fleshpounds and Scrakes down in one hit, something the Lever Action can't attest to.
The M14 is basically a more powerful version of the Lever Action in terms of gameplay. It has all the benefits of the Lever action in terms of increased mobility, faster RoF, and more ammo, but to a greater extent and has that nifty laser-dot sight for even better mobility, but is still incapable of taking out FPs and Scrakes in no time flat. Hence, it is more powerful than the Crossbow but the Crossbow has it's niche.
THE NEW MEDIC WEAPONS
WTF do Sharpshooter weapons have to do with these new Medic weapons? Are they going to be overpowered? Hopefully not. I'm using the SS weapons as an example for the tier balance of Medic weapons.
Now, first point is all Medic weapons should be viable in the Medic's role, meaning healing, meaning the weapons aren't going to do godly amounts of damage or any such nonsense. My idea revolved around making alterations to the healing dart between tiers, in such a way as to: Make the tier 2 more powerful generally than the tier one, while keeping them distinct enough to warrant use from either given circumstances favorable towards that weapon, the tier 3 an upgrade of the tier one, and the tier 3 more powerful than the tier 2, but both are viable in certain circumstances yadda yadda copypasta.
I suggest adding a tier 1 weapon and a tier 3 weapon for the Medic, as the MP7M seems about right as a tier 2 to me. The new tier 1 weapon would basically be an SMG with the same dart as the current MP7M, and slightly weaker combat viability (I.E. 1 or 3 points of damage or a slightly longer reload, etc. etc.).
The MP7M, at tier 2, would have the same healing dart with an adrenaline shot attached; maybe increasing movement speed, decreasing reload speed, adding some damage reduction, perhaps even adding immunity to the Grasp of Death from Clots. This would all count as a "medical injection", which would mean it's efficiency is increased by higher levels of Field Medic. At a cost, however, it would use up more "heal juice" per dart, something around 75-80 maybe (to allow for upgraded weaponry in the future; here's looking at you, tier 4s). And for god's sake, fix the restrictively and unnecessarily slow reload animation.
The tier 3 weapon would be slightly more combat viable than the MP7M and the dart would basically be the usual heal dart, only it delivers it's healing faster than normal. When the dart hits your ally, the "heal over time" component would do it's healing more quickly than a regular injection.
FYI, this is all IMO, OC!
THE NEW MEDIC WEAPONS
WTF do Sharpshooter weapons have to do with these new Medic weapons? Are they going to be overpowered? Hopefully not. I'm using the SS weapons as an example for the tier balance of Medic weapons.
Now, first point is all Medic weapons should be viable in the Medic's role, meaning healing, meaning the weapons aren't going to do godly amounts of damage or any such nonsense. My idea revolved around making alterations to the healing dart between tiers, in such a way as to: Make the tier 2 more powerful generally than the tier one, while keeping them distinct enough to warrant use from either given circumstances favorable towards that weapon, the tier 3 an upgrade of the tier one, and the tier 3 more powerful than the tier 2, but both are viable in certain circumstances yadda yadda copypasta.
I suggest adding a tier 1 weapon and a tier 3 weapon for the Medic, as the MP7M seems about right as a tier 2 to me. The new tier 1 weapon would basically be an SMG with the same dart as the current MP7M, and slightly weaker combat viability (I.E. 1 or 3 points of damage or a slightly longer reload, etc. etc.).
The MP7M, at tier 2, would have the same healing dart with an adrenaline shot attached; maybe increasing movement speed, decreasing reload speed, adding some damage reduction, perhaps even adding immunity to the Grasp of Death from Clots. This would all count as a "medical injection", which would mean it's efficiency is increased by higher levels of Field Medic. At a cost, however, it would use up more "heal juice" per dart, something around 75-80 maybe (to allow for upgraded weaponry in the future; here's looking at you, tier 4s). And for god's sake, fix the restrictively and unnecessarily slow reload animation.
The tier 3 weapon would be slightly more combat viable than the MP7M and the dart would basically be the usual heal dart, only it delivers it's healing faster than normal. When the dart hits your ally, the "heal over time" component would do it's healing more quickly than a regular injection.
FYI, this is all IMO, OC!
Adrenaline? Wouldn't be a bad idea for someone wounded and trying to fight back into the safety of the team, a medics healing dart will only heal over time and even that is only until the player gets hit.
Would be a believable addition if there were an adrenaline dart he could use to allow his wounded ally to move faster and overcome the wounded slow down effect. Also adrenaline blocks out pain and so may allow the player to survive a little bit more damage before dropping. It would be a pretty good way of avoiding the old crawler/clot slapping the last 10 points of health off you after fighting a Fleshie or something.
Positives:
1) Its believable and has a practical use in the game. Adrenaline would be useful for retreats, or assisting players against dangerous foes or groups by increasing movement speed and reducing damage taken by a small percentage.
2) For wounded retreating players the Medic has to make a decision to either heal the player first or hit him with adrenaline in order to keep him alive. Little fear of it being overpowered.
Negatives:
1) Needs to be implemented properly into the game, be it either by a new gun or a new attachment entirely.
2) How would a dart system allow the Medic to use adrenaline on himself (2 syringes and 2 dart guns kinda takes the Mick)
3) What happens if the medic accidently shoots a Fleshpound
Not to some of your ideas are bad but in my opinion if its done once thats enough for example the adrenaline in l4d2 we don't need another l4d item in this game. I think the medic should be able to get stun shots such as the ability to freeze something and let your teammates pound on it.
I saw the tranq dart idea. My idea was the poison dart. No, it doesn't deal damage overtime to specimens, but the effects would be: they move slower, like the tranq dart, they are more vulnerable and they will not be able to use their special abilities.
All these effects are temporary, however. But I don't know about this idea, probably seems a bit overpowered to me.
All these effects are temporary, however. But I don't know about this idea, probably seems a bit overpowered to me.
@ No Usernames: interesting post, I agree the Medic should have a full selection of guns that are tailored to his combat support role.
Ultimately I'd like to see a Medic with 3 different SMG's and a different dart for each: heal, adrenaline and tranquilizer. This would make it much funner to be a Medic since they'll have a means of supporting their team in just about every situation.
Each SMG should take up a different weapon slot for ease of switching. A tier 1 gun could be an automatic pistol like a Mini-Uzi, faster reload than the MP7 but smaller clip size. This could take up the secondary weapon slot, and a tier 3 SMG/PDW (P90) could take up the primary slot with similar firepower to the MP7 but a larger mag size.
An interesting alternative to the tranquilizer dart is the "poison" dart Neoco suggested, not doing damage directly but instead creating a damage boost modifier for every hit the zed takes for X seconds. Maybe it could slow as well.
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Ultimately I'd like to see a Medic with 3 different SMG's and a different dart for each: heal, adrenaline and tranquilizer. This would make it much funner to be a Medic since they'll have a means of supporting their team in just about every situation.
Each SMG should take up a different weapon slot for ease of switching. A tier 1 gun could be an automatic pistol like a Mini-Uzi, faster reload than the MP7 but smaller clip size. This could take up the secondary weapon slot, and a tier 3 SMG/PDW (P90) could take up the primary slot with similar firepower to the MP7 but a larger mag size.
An interesting alternative to the tranquilizer dart is the "poison" dart Neoco suggested, not doing damage directly but instead creating a damage boost modifier for every hit the zed takes for X seconds. Maybe it could slow as well.
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Funny you should post that, that was actually the line-up I was thinking (Uzi-MP7-P90) but knowing how people hate the P90 around here for "being in other games", I neglected to mention it. Oh, and wouldn't the Tier 3 SMG be in the "Special weapon" slot with the MP7 moved to the Primary slot?
Only thing would be that no other class can carry all 3 of their guns at once, and the MP7 is 3 weight blocks. +1 for the grenades that means these other 2 weapons somehow have to weigh more than at least 11 blocks to prevent use of all. This would mean the lowest weight available for 1 item is 6 and the other 5. I personally dont see either the Uzi or the P90 weighing as much as an Ak-47
If I'm honest Medic is my favourite class, I tend to find they have a kind of utility role where they can pick up nearly any weapon and fight with it. (Their movement speed and damage absorption makes it easier to use pretty much anything to good effect against the weak specimens). So I would personally say the Medic doesn't need a new gun. That being said if we are wanting to add more medic support abilities it is nearly impossible without either making it damned confusing or giving him at least 1 new gun.
I personally would say the Medic is balanced fine as far I'm concerned, and the ability to use nearly any weapon to wipe out clots, crawlers and stalkers keeps me plenty entertained. But thats just 1 Medics opinion
Ok people are missing the point with this post, it has nothing to do with the darts. The medic is a medic, a healer nothing more I suggested new smgs so we don't just have the mp7 all of the guns would do the same thing its just to give a us a choice. This class is meant to heal people when they cant do it themselves not to slow down or stop specimens its a healer I dont know how many times it has to be said.
Okay, here's my idea.
Give the medic a modified m79 or something like it, but make the shells release healing gas in an area effect. The biggest difference is he will have limited ammo with it instead of using healing juice. This means it won't replace the medic gun, just complement it. Obviously the weight, clipsize, healing effectiveness, etc. need to be balanced but that's the basic idea. Just trying to think outside the box.
Give the medic a modified m79 or something like it, but make the shells release healing gas in an area effect. The biggest difference is he will have limited ammo with it instead of using healing juice. This means it won't replace the medic gun, just complement it. Obviously the weight, clipsize, healing effectiveness, etc. need to be balanced but that's the basic idea. Just trying to think outside the box.