Another berserker weapon idea, A spear

[Man And A Half]

Since when do Zerkers take damage from Scrakes? As for FPs there really isn't much call for you to be attacking 1 with a melee aside of simply pissing around.

Well, they don't take damage from Scrakes due to the stun effect on other melee weapons.

And 'zerkers can't deal much damage to FP since they have no firearm proficiencies, this would help them contribute to the team taking it down. Of course, no teamwork is really required as long as the Sharpshooter remains as powerful as it is.

 

[Evilsod]

Well, they don't take damage from Scrakes due to the stun effect on other melee weapons.

And 'zerkers can't deal much damage to FP since they have no firearm proficiencies, this would help them contribute to the team taking it down. Of course, no teamwork is really required as long as the Sharpshooter remains as powerful as it is.

Your right, its not possible for other classes to use a Crossbow effectively... oh wait isn't that what most Zerkers/Zerdics use to solo 6man Suicidal FPs?

 

[BEEEEEES]

hell...i'd love to see a spear: crawler killer.

I want to set my spear against a charging fleshpound for massive damage.

 

[Unit-05]

If you can't defend your opinion, just say so.

I suggested adding a bayonet to the LAR because it would fulfill the role of both spear and firearm, and would be very helpful to the ailing Berserker class and to the team as a whole.

The whole point of the weapon is not to modify the sharp shooter weapon but to give the berzerker a new weapon to play with, It is to add a new weapon itself, Making a tier 2 weapon a tier 3 melee weapon is going to make it unbalanced, Berzerkers are ment to use firearms as a last resort, giving a berzerker a firearm for its tier 3 weapon by just strapping a bayonet on a LAR is not also retarded, it is lazy. besides how the hell would you fit the normal stab and power stab with the ironsighting and shooting commands all in the same gun without giving making the weapon hold two slots for the actions that will also crowd up your weapon selection. Why the hell would you want to give it long gun when the spear is a melee REACH WEAPON.

And 'zerkers can't deal much damage to FP since they have no firearm proficiencies,

That is the WHOLE POINT of the spear.

 

[Man And A Half]

The whole point of the weapon is not to modify the sharp shooter weapon but to give the berzerker a new weapon to play with,

It'll have one.

It is to add a new weapon itself, Making a tier 2 weapon a tier 3 melee weapon is going to make it unbalanced

Non-Berserkers wouldn't get much benefit from its melee attack, and probably wouldn't be able to use its blocking ability at all. The LAR in its current form sees relatively little use from Sharpshooters, let alone anyone else, anyways.

Berzerkers are ment to use firearms as a last resort

Really? The good ones I see always pick off Crawlers, Sirens, and the odd Stalker while they're closing in to melee.

, giving a berzerker a firearm for its tier 3 weapon by just strapping a bayonet on a LAR is not also retarded, it is lazy

It's functionaland stylish - by definition that cannot be called retarded. You call it lazy, but for a small company like TWI that is working hard to support two games, I call it an elegant solution.

besides how the hell would you fit the normal stab and power stab with the ironsighting and shooting commands all in the same gun without giving making the weapon hold two slots for the actions that will also crowd up your weapon selection.

The alt-fire / flashlight button could serve as the normal attack. As for the blocking position, rather than sitting there holding a button, perhaps it works simply by crouching with it and stabbing the incoming enemy at just the right moment - Too far away and you use up your power before it's reached you, too close and it functions as a regular jab.

They could use the "Flashlight" command (renaming it Flashlight / Bayonet), using it to change the player's grip on the rifle from that of a shooting stance to that of a bayonet stance - A toggle, similar to how the flashlight works, and not another selection slot. And that's just what I can come up with in a few minutes.

Why the hell would you want to give it long gun when the spear is a melee REACH WEAPON.

A Winchester rifle with a large bayonet (typical of the era) is almost as long as a spear. And by the eighteenth century the pike was beginning to be phased out as an anti-cavalry weapon by... the bayonet.

That is the WHOLE POINT of the spear.

The problem with the Berserker is that he can't catch up to raging FP / Scrake, and a spear isn't going to help the problem by that much - He might get one or two extra attacks in, at best. And I'm sorry to have to keep repeating it, but the rifle + bayonet functions in melee exactly like a spear.

 

[Unit-05]

[/B]A Winchester rifle with a large bayonet (typical of the era) is almost as long as a spear. And by the eighteenth century the pike was beginning to be phased out as an anti-cavalry weapon by... the bayonet.

the pike was phased out because of the the less need for anti-cavalry, you can thank muskets for that one.

[/B]It's functionaland stylish - by definition that cannot be called retarded. You call it lazy, but for a small company like TWI that is working hard to support two games, I call it an elegant solution.

This I can understand, if TWI just does not have the money/time for a new weapon then I guess that would work for them.

[/B]The problem with the Berserker is that he can't catch up to raging FP / Scrake, and a spear isn't going to help the problem by that much - He might get one or two extra attacks in, at best. And I'm sorry to have to keep repeating it, but the rifle + bayonet functions in melee exactly like a spear.

True a bayonet on a rifle does have the same function of a spear, but just not to the full capability of a spear itself, but I can see where you are getting at.

Sorry I jumped the gun on you a tad, but god damn it, most people who just post something like that without even explaining themselves are usually people who did not even read what I posted and go 'DERP DIS IS BETTOR IDEAZ' But most people would cringe at the idea of upgrading sharpshooter weapons further

 

[Temstar]

LAR with bayonet

I suggested something like that before:
[url]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=41410[/URL]

I still think I'm onto something with this

 

[Unit-05]

I suggested something like that before:
[URL="http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=41410"][url]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=41410[/URL][/URL]

I still think I'm onto something with this

Well sure, But I will still try and push this idea ahead, if TWI wants a cheaper way to do it, then I guess we can fall back to the LAR bayonet, which then its your game to explain that, but at the moment this thread is to expand one more option and weapon to consider

 

[Man And A Half]

Your right, its not possible for other classes to use a Crossbow effectively... oh wait isn't that what most Zerkers/Zerdics use to solo 6man Suicidal FPs?

I don't think anyone is seriously denying how overpowered the Crossbow is.

 

[Evilsod]

I don't think anyone is seriously denying how overpowered the Crossbow is.

Your statement that 'zerkers get no firearm bonus' and need help taking it down seemed to say otherwise.

 

[Mechanos]

Lawl, I guess no one even noticed my post back on page 2. And I thought I had a good idea too. Ah well.

 

[Unit-05]

Lawl, I guess no one even noticed my post back on page 2. And I thought I had a good idea too. Ah well.

Well I didnt see it befor.

Basically, hit 2nd attack, and it takes a second to get into position. Once in position, you can no longer aim or move and just hold the position. Anything that runs into the spear at higher speeds (running gorefasts, jumping crawlers, scrakes and fleshies when enraged) will be impaled or take a healthy hit to the upper body/head. Anything just walking (the majority of the rest or anything not raging) would take very little or 0 damage but would have to walk around it 'till they attack it with a strong enough attack that would normally would knock you out of scope/sights mode

That sounds like a Very good idea for it, much like oldih but more reasonable balancing, I like that idea alot

Do you have any idea how to use a katana? I bet you 9/10 odds, on your first swing, you'd get it stuck in a specimen (or worse, broken), and then it would eat your face. It takes a good deal of training and practice to effectively wield a katana. My definition of "effectively wield" is roughly "attack enemies with precision, don't get the weapon stuck, broken, or knocked out of your hands in the process". Katanas, in the wrong hands, are flimsy, easiliy broken swords that aren't worth the weight. In the right hands, they are a powerful weapon against humans. An opponent with a tough hide, high pain tolerance, and a burning desire to kill you is going to eat you alive.

A katana, when compared to many swords, is like a precision instrument - a scalpel among box cutters. It takes a lot more skill to use a scalpel than a box cutter, but the box cutter will still open you up, make quite a mess of it, but won't break in half if you catch it on a bone. A katana is not a heavy hitter. It shouldn't even be stunning scrakes.

Now spears... any dumbass with two hands gets the general idea of using a spear. Boar spears are specifically designed to split tissue wide open and bleed their target out rapidly. With some practice, you can accurately impale just about anything with a quick thrust and withdraw. You can also just jam the spear in as far as it will go and it will continue to rip flesh while impairing the target's ability to move properly. It allows you to get far more of your strength into a hit than a katana ever could, and allows you to do this with virtually no practice at all. Spears are incredible weapons, one of the first man ever used, and they were one of the best for thousands of years. I could not think of a better weapon for a survival game than the weapon that allowed mankind to survive in the first place.

I agree, katanas are weapons deisgned for ultra precision to kill a human being, but I doubt they were ment to attack things of this caliber. Spears in the other hand were ment to hunt things which were alot bigger and meaner then a human being, something we are facing all over again in this game.

 

[Sammers]

But that is just it, we dont want to make it just as any other zombie survival game. We want a game where we have weapons that were not used in a matter we have seen befor.

Then why have we got guns at all? They are the most common weapon in any game nowadays. Why don't we have a homemade fencepost launcher, built out of old toasters? Or a long melee implement, created from the sunburnt testicles of dead Vietnam soldiers? Because they simply just don't work in a game like this one. We are not always able to see why, but sometimes, they just don't.

How the hell would a spear be not fun to use?

Well what I'm trying to get at, is that many people will not be drawn to it, because they are more drawn to weapons made popular by culture. If they spear is that good an idea and the chainsaw is that bad an idea, why did TWI bother picking the chainsaw in the first place?

I can understand if you disagree with the weapon simply because you would not prefer the choice of weapon (everyone has their tastes in bloodshed ). But don't shoot down an idea simply because the other weapons are not being used because they cant' be used. Even when updated they will still probably be (and I hope i'm wrong) bad by design. It is not like im wishing a weapon where I can just rambo it and say I have "1337 skillz",

You're sort of on the right lines, but not because I disagree with it personally, but because more people will disagree with the spear, rather than the chainsaw. On a rather ironic note, the Killing Floor Knife is the Rambo knife and by your logic, should be encouraging players to Rambo everything upon deciding to use it.

Katana Speak

Katana =/= Spear
=> Irrelevant.

Now spears... any dumbass with two hands gets the general idea of using a spear. Boar spears are specifically designed to split tissue wide open and bleed their target out rapidly. With some practice, you can accurately impale just about anything with a quick thrust and withdraw. You can also just jam the spear in as far as it will go and it will continue to rip flesh while impairing the target's ability to move properly. It allows you to get far more of your strength into a hit than a katana ever could, and allows you to do this with virtually no practice at all. Spears are incredible weapons, one of the first man ever used, and they were one of the best for thousands of years.

It cannot decap, therefore not only will it suffer from being less useful than current melee weps, it would require a completely different set of code for the Specimen's reaction. We already have melee weapons that nobody uses, we can instead spend time making these more useful first.
I'd also be steered away from using it now, by the fact that it's apparently the weapon of choice for a dumbass.


Also, what balance issues do you plan to solve by taking away the Beserker's Primary weakness?

 

[Unit-05]

Then why have we got guns at all? They are the most common weapon in any game nowadays. Why don't we have a homemade fencepost launcher, built out of old toasters? Or a long melee implement, created from the sunburnt testicles of dead Vietnam soldiers? Because they simply just don't work in a game like this one. We are not always able to see why, but sometimes, they just don't.

No, of course we should have guns, Don't pull hypertechnicals to dumb down a point im trying to make, thats just immature. But while we can have the typical guns, why not add with it somthing unique with it? Why should we only cut our selves short with what we have now? Why not play the best of both worlds?

Well what I'm trying to get at, is that many people will not be drawn to it, because they are more drawn to weapons made popular by culture. If they spear is that good an idea and the chainsaw is that bad an idea, why did TWI bother picking the chainsaw in the first place?

where in the hell did you automatically assume if one idea is picked the other must be bad? TWI picked the chainsaw because the believe they could do better with it then what is found in other games, and they have. But how would you know that the spear would get bad ratings? Name one first person zombie survival game that you have tried that had a spear in it. Would it get bad ratings because you guessed it would? or because You would give it bad ratings.

You're sort of on the right lines, but not because I disagree with it personally, but because more people will disagree with the spear, rather than the chainsaw. On a rather ironic note, the Killing Floor Knife is the Rambo knife and by your logic, should be encouraging players to Rambo everything upon deciding to use it.

Again how do you know? Of course people at first will be weary of such a weapon, it has not been done befor, but games such as mount&blade has shown some of these weapons more fun then thought to use, but where in any part have you found in my logic that the 'killing floor rambo knife' should encourage people to rambo it, I really want you to show me this otherwise I'm going to think you pulled this out of your *** to just win an argument.

It cannot decap, therefore not only will it suffer from being less useful than current melee weps, it would require a completely different set of code for the Specimen's reaction. We already have melee weapons that nobody uses, we can instead spend time making these more useful first.
I'd also be steered away from using it now, by the fact that it's apparently the weapon of choice for a dumbass.


Also, what balance issues do you plan to solve by taking away the Beserker's Primary weakness?

It cannot decap? oh sure it wont decap them, you will only be sticking a 18 and a half inch blade through the face, Why the hell would it require a different set of code for the specimens reaction, Some specimens are stunned when shot by the LAR, why cant that be mimicked when piked by a spear? Of course we have a full set of melee weapons we dont use, we can't use them, Unless TWI pulls some serious magic with them they will continue to be useless, the machete and axe are suitable for the smaller specimens, sure, but in the end as berzerkers advance in level and we can gain our more stronger melee weapons alot cheaper and sooner, what the hell do you think are going to happen to these weapons?! How do you even fix that, The axe and machete are doomed to be side weapons to fill the remaining slots for other classes because the game was built that way. The katana and chainsaw are not suitable for the bigger specimens period, and if they change them to much it might create more problems then it is worth. by every means that you just declare it a 'fact' that its a weapon of choice for dumbasses when the only person to display open disgust for it is you, then I would call it arrogant.

what balance issue am I planning on solving by taking away the Beserker's Primary weakness? The one that nerfed it to begin with. Is that not the whole point of getting better weapons? Weapons that will remove more and more weaknesses that the class suffers as well as excell in its role further?

 

[FlakAttack]

Katana =/= Spear
=> Irrelevant.

The point of my little blurb there was that a spear makes far more sense than a katana. Not irrelevant, and this forum is now dumber for having to deal with you.

It cannot decap, therefore not only will it suffer from being less useful than current melee weps, it would require a completely different set of code for the Specimen's reaction. We already have melee weapons that nobody uses, we can instead spend time making these more useful first.
I'd also be steered away from using it now, by the fact that it's apparently the weapon of choice for a dumbass.


Also, what balance issues do you plan to solve by taking away the Beserker's Primary weakness?

Berserker's primary weakness? You do realize that zerkers are weak against Husks, Crawlers, Sirens, Fleshpounds, and (to an extent) Bloaters? THAT'S OVER HALF THE GAME! How the hell is that fair? Zerkers should be weak against husks and sirens, no question... fleshpounds are debatable... but bloaters and crawlers should be a non issue. A spear would solve this.

BTW I've seen the flamethrower decap guys so if the flamer can do it I'm sure a spear can.

 

[Mechanos]

Berserker's primary weakness? You do realize that zerkers are weak against Husks, Crawlers, Sirens, Fleshpounds, and (to an extent) Bloaters? THAT'S OVER HALF THE GAME! How the hell is that fair? Zerkers should be weak against husks and sirens, no question... fleshpounds are debatable... but bloaters and crawlers should be a non issue. A spear would solve this.

Technically, a spear would be more encumbersome.. it would only help with crawlers that are holding still now that you can reach out and poke them. Aka, they've already jumped at you and damaged you. Not that I'm saying you can't try to time it and poke a crawler out of the air.. but spears sacrifice agility for range.

Plus you're forgetting that zerkers are only weak against all of those mentioned zeds, when they stick to purely only melee. The game is setup (or at least attempted) to where no perk is able to take on everything using only their proficiency (I know, perks like SS don't count, that's for another thread ). That's why zerkers tend to pack around crossbows.. nade launchers.. etc etc, to deal with threats that are hard to melee.

Really I feel this spear idea is more about livening up the Berserker, giving him a weapon that has more options, especially defensively. And not about trying to fill his weaknesses with a weapon that counts towards zerker perk.

 

[Unit-05]

Technically, a spear would be more encumbersome.. it would only help with crawlers that are holding still now that you can reach out and poke them. Aka, they've already jumped at you and damaged you. Not that I'm saying you can't try to time it and poke a crawler out of the air.. but spears sacrifice agility for range.

True, it would sacrifice agiltiy for range somewhat. But I wouldnt think it would be cumbersome, if a crawler jumps at you, whats stopping the person from backing up and then strafe to the left or right to dodge it?. I don't find it very hard to do unless supported by gorefasts and sirens.

 

[Sammers]

Why not play the best of both worlds?

Because merging worlds isn't that simple. If we were to just add the spear, of course some people will speak against it. Happened when the Katana was released.

where in the hell did you automatically assume if one idea is picked the other must be bad?

One must be bad, relative to the other. If Tripwire were to look at a Chainsaw, then a Spear; they would have to percieve one as being a better idea than the other to use. Therefore, one is a bad idea compared to the other.

Name one first person zombie survival game that you have tried that had a spear in it.

How do you know there's not a reason why nobody uses it?

Again how do you know?

Because I counted four people in this thread who want the spear added(One of them said only if the secondary attack was changed). That is 4 FOR. For every player who said either: Fix other weapons first; I don't want the spear; I'd prefer X as a weapon. I have put them on the AGAINST. That would make 8 AGAINST.
4-8
Bear in mind, I counted them only up until the post where I 'knew' and also bear in mind that the against votes are not people who dislike the spear, only those that would rather see something else.
On the contrary, how do you know it'll be fun to use? Not everybody has the same idea of what's fun.

Why the hell would it require a different set of code for the specimens reaction

Because with the current animations, the zed's head would fly up/sideways after being stabbed. This was why the Knife's stab animation for the knife on the first retail build was removed I believe.

Is that not the whole point of getting better weapons?

No. Not in the slightest. New weapons, fill new roles. Useless weapons should be made better before adding new ones. If you were in charge of the balance pack, it would no doubt just be full of weapons as overpowered as the M14, but for each of the other classes.

The point of my little blurb there was that a spear makes far more sense than a katana. Not irrelevant, and this forum is now dumber for having to deal with you.

The Katana is made far more desirable by it's greater use within popular modern culture. And this forum has dealt with me since KF was released without hitch. If you have a personal problem with me for simply not liking spears, spit it out.

Berserker's primary weakness? You do realize that zerkers are weak against Husks, Crawlers, Sirens, Fleshpounds, and (to an extent) Bloaters?

Crawlers, maybe. Fleshpounds, yes. And for the record, Fleshpounds are the biggest threat, ergo they are the primary weakness. Any specimen can be taken down with a careful strategy. And bloats.....
Beserker has the bloat bile resistence for a reason. To help them take down bloats.
Though if you're going to argue that "omg theres lots of zeds at once" well that should obviously be a threat to anyone, shouldn't it? Anyway, as already mentioned, this is strictly melee only we're talking about. Not really an issue.

BTW I've seen the flamethrower decap guys so if the flamer can do it I'm sure a spear can.

The flamethrower does no extra headhsot damage and is the only weapon to not do so.

And on a closing note

the only person to display open disgust for it is you

Yes, I believe it's called criticism. Learn to deal with criticism. This area of the forums is for ideas. Very few, if any, ideas make it into the retail game. I don't believe there are any ideas on this forums that have not recieved criticism. It does not make me stupid. I am allowed to not like your spear and by jumping on my head and cramming your opinions down my throat, you are only going to be met with more negative responses. You cannot change my mind on this idea. I DO NOT THINK THE SPEAR IDEA WILL WORK. DEAL WITH IT.

 

[Unit-05]

Because merging worlds isn't that simple. If we were to just add the spear, of course some people will speak against it. Happened when the Katana was released.

Yeah a few people did. But it turns out it was not too bad of a weapon though was it?

One must be bad, relative to the other. If Tripwire were to look at a Chainsaw, then a Spear; they would have to percieve one as being a better idea than the other to use. Therefore, one
is a bad idea compared to the other.

That is the most retarded thing I have ever heard. The axe is better then the machete, does that mean the machete is bad? The SCAR was added does that mean the ak47 and the bullpup is bad because the SCAR does more damage? Just because one idea is better then the other doesnt mean the other is bad, It just means the other is better of the selection.

How do you know there's not a reason why nobody uses it?

uhh.... The same reason why I said how do you know it was a bad idea? If if has not been done befor then of course that is to be considered.

Because I counted four people in this thread who want the spear added(One of them said only if the secondary attack was changed). That is 4 FOR. For every player who said either: Fix other weapons first; I don't want the spear; I'd prefer X as a weapon. I have put them on the AGAINST. That would make 8 AGAINST.
4-8
Bear in mind, I counted them only up until the post where I 'knew' and also bear in mind that the against votes are not people who dislike the spear, only those that would rather see something else.
On the contrary, how do you know it'll be fun to use? Not everybody has the same idea of what's fun.

4-8 people you say? 4-8 If you considered it in that retarded ideal of "if one idea is better the the other, the other must be bad" Most of the people like the idea of a reach weapon, Which is the point of the thread. But they have different views of the weapon itself, while a few have said that it needs a justification to be modernised, Others such as Man and a Half also considered it as a bayonet on the LAR for more purposes. But the idea itself of a reach weapon is looked down upon is you, Because other people thought of different ideas for the spear does that make them bad? or does this make this idea bad?

Because with the current animations, the zed's head would fly up/sideways after being stabbed. This was why the Knife's stab animation for the knife on the first retail build was removed I believe.

Well im not sure what you mean by up/sideways, but if you mean that if one specimen was stabbed in the chest or face they would jut their head back then that seems fine, but if you mean as a glitch animation as the head would stretch to the sup/sideways then they would just haft to make new animations.

No. Not in the slightest. New weapons, fill new roles. Useless weapons should be made better before adding new ones. If you were in charge of the balance pack, it would no doubt just be full of weapons as overpowered as the M14, but for each of the other classes.

Flling new roles, Roles that does not be done or can be done better, Sounds like fixing a weakness to me. But I have said this over and over, THESE USELESS WEAPONS CANNOT BE FIXED. The only one worth fixing right now is the chainsaw.

The Katana is made far more desirable by it's greater use within popular modern culture. And this forum has dealt with me since KF was released without hitch. If you have a personal problem with me for simply not liking spears, spit it out.

I don't think he cares how long you been in the forums, if either one of you have been playing the game since it first came out then its safe to say that either one of you would be experienced enough to know what their talking about.
But as you said, People have spoken agenst it when the katana was released.

Crawlers, maybe. Fleshpounds, yes. And for the record, Fleshpounds are the biggest threat, ergo they are the primary weakness. Any specimen can be taken down with a careful strategy. And bloats.....
Beserker has the bloat bile resistence for a reason. To help them take down bloats.
Though if you're going to argue that "omg theres lots of zeds at once" well that should obviously be a threat to anyone, shouldn't it? Anyway, as already mentioned, this is strictly melee only we're talking about. Not really an issue.

Dont forget husks as well, and while we do have a large damage resistance to the bloater, its not the damage that kills us, its when it blinds while trying to fight multiple enemys that kills us. When you play suicidal alone(meaning no onther players but you in the game that would jack up its resistance for having more players), each perk has the capability to deal with the fleshpound solo when it does not have the player multiplayers, even the firebug does. But not the berserker, he has to use overpowered sharpshooter weapons to do it.

Yes, I believe it's called criticism. Learn to deal with criticism. This area of the forums is for ideas. Very few, if any, ideas make it into the retail game. I don't believe there are any ideas on this forums that have not recieved criticism. It does not make me stupid. I am allowed to not like your spear and by jumping on my head and cramming your opinions down my throat, you are only going to be met with more negative responses. You cannot change my mind on this idea. I DO NOT THINK THE SPEAR IDEA WILL WORK. DEAL WITH IT.

yes it is called criticism, and I can deal with it, and you have every right to not like my idea, But guess what? just because you say something wont work, doesnt mean I should just say it wont work, I have a right to defend it. But if you are going to post exaggerated numbers of disapprovals, and pull facts out of your *** that you still have not shown me where in my logic where the 'killing floor rambo knife' would encourage people to rambo it, then you are only aiming to just 'win' any argument or discussion. you do not think the spear will work? Fine, you made your point, don't post here then.

Anyone else to contribute?

 

[Entangler]

Flling new roles, Roles that does not be done or can be done better, Sounds like fixing a weakness to me. But I have said this over and over, THESE USELESS CANNOT BE FIXED. The only one worth fixing right now is the chainsaw.

This part seems to be the crux of your argument about why a new weapon is necessary (not merely desirable). It's also rubbish.

Why can the other weapons not be fixed? What mystery magic prevents them from being fixable? You've never given any reason why they can't be fixed, only that "they just can't". In reality, modifying the existing weapons so that they have a different function to what (you blithely assume) they had originally is perfectly possible with only a few minor code tweaks, and won't make the sky fall in the process. It's just a matter of what those tweaks should be, and I believe I've already covered that in my own thread (which you claim to have read, if your attempts to misappropriate what I said there are anything to go by, but clearly haven't read properly). How can that possibly be hard to understand?

Also, I'd appreciate it if you stopped misquoting me. You know that part you keep saying about the other weapons being "bad by design"? Well guess what - I actually said that about the Katana's defensive capabilities (it's an offence weapon). I never said anything of the sort about the Machete or Fire Axe. I also think it's hilarious that you took the parts you liked out of that thread's OP (and then mangled them horribly) while simultaneously declaring the actual suggestions therein "impossible" for totally unspecified reasons.


Now, let's look at your own suggestion. You want a reach weapon with a primary attack more or less equivalent to the Katana's, though presumably slightly slower but more damaging, and a secondary attack that is slow but devastatingly powerful. Presumably you want the spear to outreach Flesh Pounds' and the Patriarch's melee attacks (it wouldn't do anything new otherwise). You also say that it would be good for handling groups. The thing is, the reach weapon concept has an Achilles heel where balance is concerned, and new weapons aren't needed for those other purposes.

The restored Chainsaw is all you'll ever need for groups that aren't composed primarily of Crawlers; for those that are, the existing dodging technique with the Katana, with the support of a backup weapon if needed, is already sufficient. Mentioning Bloats didn't do your credibility any favours because Berserkers certainly don't need any more help for dealing with them, and Husks aren't much trouble for someone who can dodge their fireballs most of the time. Sirens are a legitimate weakness that I don't think should be addressed; for one, they force Berserkers to play more carefully, and for another, it's still possible to just run at them and kill them with the current weapons without taking too much damage, as long as there's only one of them. As for Flesh Pounds, as I've said, it most certainly is possible to retrofit the Fire Axe with Flesh Pound killing capabilities, despite your frenzied but baseless assertions to the contrary; go read my Berserker thread (properly this time) for the specifics.

Which leaves us with the reach concept. It's a fairly popular suggestion, but I'm not really sure why. I think it pretty much overlaps with everything I just said: It's generally seen either as the answer to the Berserker's defensive woes, which (and I feel like a broken record here) would be addressed just by restoring the Chainsaw; or the answer to the Berserker's ineptitude against Flesh Pounds.

Reiterating my reasons for wanting the Axe to fill that role will probably just send us around in circles, but in any event I don't think a reach weapon is the answer. The biggest question is of how you would make the Spear's anti-Flesh Pound abilities skill-dependent. Even with Mechanos's limitations on the alt fire, where would the skill element be if the Flesh Pound just runs right into it and kills itself? There's a reason why most ideas about how Berserkers should kill Flesh Pounds involve attacking the Flesh Pound before it enrages: The rage timer forces the Berserker out of the team's formation, to go forth and actively kill it. If the Berserker can kill the Flesh Pound without taking damage after the Flesh Pound has enraged, he has no reason to go anywhere. Sure, this "defensive stance" alt fire idea would leave the Berserker vulnerable to flank attacks, but what difference does that make if his flanks are totally safe?


All in all, I'm not entirely against this idea, but I'm firmly in the "fix the other weapons first" camp, and don't believe for a moment that the Berserker truly needs anything more than what he'd already have once that is done. Plus, there's an important balance issue regarding its primary intended purpose that you've yet to address. My vote, then - for now, at least - is no. Also, some parting advice: Stop cracking a tempter tantrum at everyone who disagrees with you.