An LMG/MMG Support Class (read balancing)

[Undedd Jester]

but seriously every idea deserves a good once over

Noitce how they are all leaning on something?

Unless Kf brings in a laying down mechanic, the recoil on this thing should be up the pan pipe.

 

[Major Liability]

YouTube - Mk 48

Doesn't look that bad to me, and this is a 7.62x51mm NATO gun just like the SCAR Mk. 17.


YouTube - Ultimax 100

You could spell your name at 50 yards with this thing.


I nominate this MG for inclusion in KF, but only if your guy yells when you fire it for a while:

YouTube - Glowing M60 Barrel

Unless you're shooting at something farther away than the specimens in KF I think the main reason you'd rest a machinegun on something is because they are relatively heavy (which actually helps with the recoil). Obviously a beast like the MG-42 would be another story, but even then I have seen videos of people who can control them firing from the shoulder.

 

[Lincoln]

I have fired an MG42 during my military services, and well, one thing to note is the sheer firepower when mounted somewhere. However, even then the recoil was so heavy my shoulder was aching blue that evening. You simply cannot fire a 13kg weapon with pinpoint accuracy on the fly. And of course, the ammo belts are gone really fast. 1200 rounds a minute and like 100 rounds a belt. I'd say, it makes you slower as well. Suggestions:
- being slow as with chainsaw
- bad accuracy when standing or walking, better when crouching
- extremely high damage values, fast rate of fire
- low ammo (100 rounds per belt, 5 belts or so).
- slow reload time
- expensive

perk (should there be one):
- faster reload times (!!!)
- better accuracy
- slightly enhanced damage (like 5% per level)
- more rounds per belt
- less movement speed decrease
- and the usual cost bonus

There should be two MGs, both heavy class, both decently expensive, like 1500 to 2000. Perk levelling goes to simple damage dealing. This will become hard as the perk gets his weapon relatively late into the game (wave 4 to 5).


PROS:
- can take on large groups and big enemies alone or as supporter in defend-style positions
- deals decent damage per second
- real threat to close enemies due to high damage output
- kinda like a mix between firebug and supporter, but without the foggy visions

CONS:
- has to rely on others when enemies come from multiple routes as he cannot dodge very well
- needs to look out for ammo, needs to conserve ammo
- gets his weapon relatively late, so he is dependand on other weapons before

 

[Sammers]

It's a no from me. British or not. In the end, if the recoil is really not that much, it's just going to be a SCAR with more ammo. Considering the low ammo is the SCAR's disadvantage, LMGs would be imbalanced.
Also I could be wrong, but wont the tracer rounds in that M60 video be responsible for a lot of that heat? Not so sure if it would apply to regular rounds as much.

 

[Undedd Jester]

Unless you're shooting at something farther away than the specimens in KF I think the main reason you'd rest a machinegun on something is because they are relatively heavy (which actually helps with the recoil). Obviously a beast like the MG-42 would be another story, but even then I have seen videos of people who can control them firing from the shoulder.

Perhaps, although, I'm pretty sure it you were running around with one of them things your arms would get pretty damned tired and your aim would go to crap anway

Not to mention the addition of this with its obvious damage capabilities and no real reload issues would probably spell death of my beloved firebug perk

 

[Major Liability]

Also I could be wrong, but wont the tracer rounds in that M60 video be responsible for a lot of that heat? Not so sure if it would apply to regular rounds as much.

Actually for most machineguns they recommend you change out the barrel every 200 rounds or so if you're spraying. I think that DeGroat video was to show off their metallurgy (though of course that M60 didn't survive, they were just proving that you could if you had to).

Not to mention the addition of this with its obvious damage capabilities and no real reload issues would probably spell death of my beloved firebug perk

Well, there is one reload issue. Any belt-fed machinegun is going to take so long to reload you'd be specimen feces before you were anywhere near finished, so if you ran out when it really counted you'd be completely boned unless someone rescues you. Firebug's damage would still be more consistent, and of course with most specimens the firebug only has to light them once and let 'em burn.

My idea to balance MGs with ARs: Require the player to aim before firing. Machineguns may be controllable shooting from the shoulder with a good stance, but spraying from the hip with anything resembling accuracy would be pretty much impossible. And, as Jester said, your arm would get quite tired holding a weapon that heavy up for the entire game. So, have the players run around carrying the weapon in the low-ready position:

To fire, you'd have to aim first which would take almost a second, and in the process lose all mobility. That way, you'd lose all of the commando's run-and-gun capability if you opt for a machinegun, and you'd be highly dependent on teammates to cover you while you reposition. But once you're set up, you'd be able to mow down all comers.

I hope I explained that well enough, I'd really like to see machineguns in KF.

 

[GCameron]

Actually for most machineguns they recommend you change out the barrel every 200 rounds or so if you're spraying. I think that DeGroat video was to show off their metallurgy (though of course that M60 didn't survive, they were just proving that you could if you had to).



Well, there is one reload issue. Any belt-fed machinegun is going to take so long to reload you'd be specimen feces before you were anywhere near finished, so if you ran out when it really counted you'd be completely boned unless someone rescues you. Firebug's damage would still be more consistent, and of course with most specimens the firebug only has to light them once and let 'em burn.

My idea to balance MGs with ARs: Require the player to aim before firing. Machineguns may be controllable shooting from the shoulder with a good stance, but spraying from the hip with anything resembling accuracy would be pretty much impossible. And, as Jester said, your arm would get quite tired holding a weapon that heavy up for the entire game. So, have the players run around carrying the weapon in the low-ready position:

To fire, you'd have to aim first which would take almost a second, and in the process lose all mobility. That way, you'd lose all of the commando's run-and-gun capability if you opt for a machinegun, and you'd be highly dependent on teammates to cover you while you reposition. But once you're set up, you'd be able to mow down all comers.

I hope I explained that well enough, I'd really like to see machineguns in KF.

Wow, I can't believe this thread is still active...
Anyway, I like this idea.


And about a few things that have been said here;
-What do you mean the MK48 didnt look too bad? Do you see how much its shaking and see how much his shoulder is being pushed back? At 10 yards you couldn't hit a person with half your shots, and you sure as hell won't be moving much while aiming it.
-The recoil thing doesn't mean just shooting the barrel up, I mean side to side too, just anything to balance it so that you couldn't aim it and spray for more than a few shots.
-Why do people always think of the M60 and M249 when they hear "LMG?" IMO, the M249 is almost useless, and the M60 (which isn't even an LMG I might add) is outdated and replaced (mostly). It has been almost completely replaced by the M240B and M240G, which don't jam nearly as much and are just all around much better. So, why is it that everyone loves the M60 so much when it isn't even used anymore (operational ones still are, but when they get worn out they're replaced with M240Bs and M240Gs), and using one would just get you killed. That doesn't really have anything to do with this thread, I just hate the M60.
-I'm not suggesting any super weapons like the Ultimax that would basically be a fully automatic M14 with no recoil and a huge mag.
-If people think this is overpowered, then how in the hell did the AA12 make it past the idea stage? The only drawback to that monster is the small amount of ammo you can carry with it.


And the main idea, again, is to make it so you have basic iron sights (no ACOGs or anything) with a big muzzleflash and a lot of recoil (not shooting straight up, but "bouncing" around) so that you can't just aim and spray. And finally low headshot multipliers because this is far from a sharpshooter's weapon, and I keep my opinion that it should be mainly for weakening "bosses" and thinning the horde before they get close enough that the whole team is having to turn their attention to them.

And again, I'm not gonna lie, I want this added just because I want to see myself holding an FN MAG, M240G, or M240B in Killing Floor just because they're friggin sexy. I'm not going to act like its a whole lot more, there really isn't that much else to it.

 

[PurpleXVI]

I suggest the existing classes all get filled up to Tier 3 weapons before we start considering any new ones.

 

[GCameron]

I suggest the existing classes all get filled up to Tier 3 weapons before we start considering any new ones.

Okay... give the Medic a Mac 10 or Thompson and a K-50M, berserker a Scythe (because they look bad-***) or blunt weapons like sledge-hammers, keep the firebug as-is because the flamethrower is a friggin death laser, and leave commando and support as commando and support, enjoy them.

 

[Marls]

I wanted to see a Light machinegun for the Commando perk. Something like a M249 would be nice. However, then Tripwire gave us the FN SCAR, I was happy with that ^_^. I'd like to see the gunslinger perk next more than a light machine gunner

 

[CandleJack]

-I'm not suggesting any super weapons like the Ultimax that would basically be a fully automatic M14 with no recoil and a huge mag.

Not true at all. You must not know much about the CIS Ultimax, or guns in general to say that.

First off the Ultimax fires 5.56x45mm NATO. The same as the Bullpup (L22)

Secondly the M14 fires 7.62x51mm NATO. This is a battle rifle and the 7.62 is used in sniper rifles; albeit match grade cartriges.

So, an assault rifle round =/= a sniper rifle round.

The Ultimax has that low recoil due to the design. It was designed for Singaporeans to use, small ones. It's like the Kriss in a way. Designed for low recoil.

The Ultimax would be basically a Bullpup with iron sights, a magazine located in the standard place and a 100 round drum, not an M14.

 

[GCameron]

Not true at all. You must not know much about the CIS Ultimax, or guns in general to say that.

First off the Ultimax fires 5.56x45mm NATO. The same as the Bullpup (L22)

Secondly the M14 fires 7.62x51mm NATO. This is a battle rifle and the 7.62 is used in sniper rifles; albeit match grade cartriges.

So, an assault rifle round =/= a sniper rifle round.

The Ultimax has that low recoil due to the design. It was designed for Singaporeans to use, small ones. It's like the Kriss in a way. Designed for low recoil.

The Ultimax would be basically a Bullpup with iron sights, a magazine located in the standard place and a 100 round drum, not an M14.

What I was saying was that I didn't care to see an LMG added that had such little recoil, although I'll admit I overlooked that it wasn't a 7.62.

And if it had similar accuracy and damage to the Bullpup, I'd actually call it underpowered. The Bullpup already has a pretty large mag in a comando's hands and its hardly useful at all.

So I guess I was wrong, sorry I misunderstood (and have never seen an Ultimax before), but I still don't like the idea.

 

[C_Gibby]

Bullpup ..... hardly useful at all.

Then you're playing it wrong.

 

[CGriffin]

Then you're playing it wrong.

Compare the Bullpup to the AK47 or SCAR and its almost useless. The only advantage is the mag cap.
Its one of the only guns in KF with accuracy so low, and its weak. You can probably get solo suicidal until the Patriarch with it, yes, but you could also do that with just your Knife and pistol.

Compared to every other weapon in killing floor, the Bullpup has
-extremely low accuracy
-average recoil
-high mag cap
-very low damage

With any other weapon you can headshot a gorefast and kill it in one shot from across the map on suicidal (the psitol can for a shaprshooter), and the Bullpup would probably take 5 shots to even hit.