An LMG/MMG Support Class (read balancing)

[GCameron]

I'm suggesting we get a class for LMGs/MMGs/GPMGs.
Most people will think right from the start "Hell no! That would be overpowered!" Well just read what my basic balancing plan is.


And yes, I know we already have a "support" class with a "heavy gunner" rep, but the way I look at it is we need a lot more guns and each class should stay to its own weapon types; SMGs for medics, melee for berserkers, Shotguns for support, rifles and pistols for Sharpshooters, explosives for demolitionists, and assault rifles for commandos.
So if we added LMGs and MMGs and the sort, they would be the real squad supporting class, whereas the highest "support specialist" weapon is a flat out killing machine, and is balanced by the low ammo (which is still done here).


My balancing plan:
-Very heavy weapons, ranging from something ~8kg to something at about 12-14Kg, I'd prefer the FN MAG, or one of its American varients; the M240B and M240G.
-Very slow movement (like with the chainsaw)
-Tight iron sights with high recoil and muzzle flash (to keep from spraying a whole mag, its meant for bursts). I mean so much of so that you can't see what you're shooting at after the first shot, and if you try to spray you'll end up staring at the cieling.
-Low accuracy, a little less accurate than the bullpup (I think) would be balanced. You shouldn't be sniping with these.
-Smaller mags, nothing like 300 rounds, keep it under 100.
-Like the AA12 you can't carry much ammo. I figure for the M240, give it an 85 round box mag and a max of 2 extras.
-low but not terribly weak damage
-VERY low multipliers, headshots shoudn't deal much extra damage with these
-Leveling the perk progresses how much damage you deal to bosses, reload speed, damage at a distance, and maybe accuracy.

This perk is meant to be for one person in the group to weaken bosses and slim the horde before they get to the team. Think about shooting it down the hallway in the Biotics Lab when your team is camping on suicidal. It's not a weapon to slaughter everything with, its a weapon to support your team with.

Let me know what you think. Try to keep it clean even if its negetive feedback. I just think iot would be balanced.

 

[9_6]

So it's weak, impossible to aim with and heavy and you say the first thing people think would be it's "overpowered"?
I don't get it.

Also what are "bosses"?

 

[GCameron]

So it's weak, impossible to aim with and heavy and you say the first thing people think would be it's "overpowered"?
I don't get it.

Also what are "bosses"?

Whenever somone brings up LMGs people think it would be overpowered because it would shoot rifle bullets really fast with a large mag.

Its not incredibly weak, just without not like a SCAR.
Not impossible to aim with, just impossible to keep firing through a whole mag. You'd have to learn to use it right.

I called them "bosses" because its the best term I could think of for the more powerful specimens and most people would get what I meant. Husks, Sirens, Scrakes, maybe bloats, Fleshpounds, and the Patriarch.

 

[Red Giant]

LMGs have over exaggerated recoil in most games, which is what the bipod is used for. But even that wouldn't work due to the fact that there isn't many places to deploy one in-game. If LMGS were added they shouldn't have much more recoil than the SCAR or AK47 and deal about the damage of the AK47.

Making your screen fly to the ceiling is not only unrealistic, it's frustrating and in all just stupid.

 

[CandleJack]

The CIS Ultimax.

Low recoil, 100-round mag and a foregrip for firing standing up.

It was intended for puny asians to use, so i'm sure the macho brits could handle it.

5.56 NATO so a upgraded version of the bullpup.

Iron sights only.

1-2 spare mags is all that's needed.

 

[Swanky]

I have fired an MG42 during my military services, and well, one thing to note is the sheer firepower when mounted somewhere. However, even then the recoil was so heavy my shoulder was aching blue that evening. You simply cannot fire a 13kg weapon with pinpoint accuracy on the fly. And of course, the ammo belts are gone really fast. 1200 rounds a minute and like 100 rounds a belt. I'd say, it makes you slower as well. Suggestions:
- being slow as with chainsaw
- bad accuracy when standing or walking, better when crouching
- extremely high damage values, fast rate of fire
- low ammo (100 rounds per belt, 5 belts or so).
- slow reload time
- expensive

perk (should there be one):
- faster reload times (!!!)
- better accuracy
- slightly enhanced damage (like 5% per level)
- more rounds per belt
- less movement speed decrease
- and the usual cost bonus

There should be two MGs, both heavy class, both decently expensive, like 1500 to 2000. Perk levelling goes to simple damage dealing. This will become hard as the perk gets his weapon relatively late into the game (wave 4 to 5).


PROS:
- can take on large groups and big enemies alone or as supporter in defend-style positions
- deals decent damage per second
- real threat to close enemies due to high damage output
- kinda like a mix between firebug and supporter, but without the foggy visions

CONS:
- has to rely on others when enemies come from multiple routes as he cannot dodge very well
- needs to look out for ammo, needs to conserve ammo
- gets his weapon relatively late, so he is dependand on other weapons before
€ - very long reload time

 

[GCameron]

LMGs have over exaggerated recoil in most games, which is what the bipod is used for. But even that wouldn't work due to the fact that there isn't many places to deploy one in-game. If LMGS were added they shouldn't have much more recoil than the SCAR or AK47 and deal about the damage of the AK47.

Making your screen fly to the ceiling is not only unrealistic, it's frustrating and in all just stupid.

Its because game balance comes before realism.
And again, I didn't mean insanely weak, more like bullpup-ak47 damage, but you can't have it deal max damage, have no recoil, and have a ****load of bullets.

I'm not saying the recoil should make it fly to the cieling, but think double SCAR recoil.

 

[GCameron]

I have fired an MG42 during my military services, and well, one thing to note is the sheer firepower when mounted somewhere. However, even then the recoil was so heavy my shoulder was aching blue that evening. You simply cannot fire a 13kg weapon with pinpoint accuracy on the fly. And of course, the ammo belts are gone really fast. 1200 rounds a minute and like 100 rounds a belt. I'd say, it makes you slower as well. Suggestions:
- being slow as with chainsaw
- bad accuracy when standing or walking, better when crouching
- extremely high damage values, fast rate of fire
- low ammo (100 rounds per belt, 5 belts or so).
- slow reload time
- expensive

perk (should there be one):
- faster reload times (!!!)
- better accuracy
- slightly enhanced damage (like 5% per level)
- more rounds per belt
- less movement speed decrease
- and the usual cost bonus

There should be two MGs, both heavy class, both decently expensive, like 1500 to 2000. Perk levelling goes to simple damage dealing. This will become hard as the perk gets his weapon relatively late into the game (wave 4 to 5).


PROS:
- can take on large groups and big enemies alone or as supporter in defend-style positions
- deals decent damage per second
- real threat to close enemies due to high damage output
- kinda like a mix between firebug and supporter, but without the foggy visions

CONS:
- has to rely on others when enemies come from multiple routes as he cannot dodge very well
- needs to look out for ammo, needs to conserve ammo
- gets his weapon relatively late, so he is dependand on other weapons before

I mostly like this, but my point still stands that this person's job should be to thin the horde and weaken stronger enemies, and should only be shot in bursts.

Also, you do realize that an MG42 is a hell of a lot faster than what I'm suggesting, right? A 7.62 with that firing rate is obviously going to have some firepower and is going to be hard to use un-mounted.

What I was saying is about double SCAR recoil, large muzzle-flash, realistic iron sights, between bullpup and ak47 damage, and low headshot multipliers.
I'm trying to keep this a team supporting weapon, not a Rambo weapon, so I'm trying to stress that it shouldn't be made to be much use by itself.

 

[Swanky]

Well then you get something that the firebug already poses to the team, only with different weapons.
€ I see I forgot to mention the long reload times in CONS. Post updated.

 

[Unit-05]

you are asking for a crowd control type class, Why would this be any different from the firebug perk? or the demolitions perk?

 

[C_Gibby]

I still don't understand why people are still suggesting American weapons. It's starting to tick me off a little...

 

[koneko]

I still don't understand why people are still suggesting American weapons. It's starting to tick me off a little...

I'd imagine you must be extremely unamused by the katana then, since it certainly isn't British. (Note: Despite being American, I actually agree with you completely.)

As for a machinegunner/lmg perk, I just really don't see the point. I mean, don't get me wrong, I really like LMGs and I would certainly use the hell out of them if they were in the game, but so far it just sounds like it would play exactly like a (slower) Commando with more ammo conservation, because while you would have the ability to take out Skrakes and FPs efficiently unlike Commandos, you would essentially have to blow through a full box or whatever its called of ammunition to do so.

Really, I think if LMGs are ever added, they should probably just be thrown in for the Commando as a new tier 3ish(please god no t4) weapon if they ever do another all-around-perk-weapon-adding update.

 

[Mechanos]

To OP:
This idea actually sounds fun. It's not another "do it all" class idea, and instead another "useful in some/most situations but has to rely on the group in others". I like the idea of having low/no multipliers but lots of bullet spam, so instead of taking the time lining up headshots like most other perks, you're more worried about trying to continue hitting enemies with the crazy recoil.

Swanky and others make a good point though. Some of those weapons are pretty powerful. For balance sake (and maybe a touch of realism, as most of the in-game weapons mimic real ones) the weapon could have a realistic clip size, but maybe be limited to only 1 clip. 1 clip seems to be plenty of ammo anyway. And the huge weight + massive recoil means it'll be the only weapon you're carrying minus the pistol, and you'd have trouble firing consecutively without practicing moving your mouse downward rapidly to keep from shooting birds out of the sky, assuming you could even move your mouse fast enough and still hit a target.

As for the others talking about random stuff like hating "american weapons".. point out a freaking country anywhere in the world that doesn't have weapons from other countries in it lol. Poor countries don't count.

 

[C_Gibby]

As for the others talking about random stuff like hating "american weapons".. point out a freaking country anywhere in the world that doesn't have weapons from other countries in it lol. Poor countries don't count.

My point about adding more British weapons isn't anything to do with the Modern Crapfare. It's about originality. There's very few games that have Sterlings, Bren Guns and Enfield Rifles (WW2 CoD games might have them -.-) but it'd be nice to bring these weapons to the modern settings and kill zombies with them.

 

[Mechanos]

Well that's a whole different story. I support any new weapon adds, brit included . (balanced of course)

 

[Unit-05]

My point about adding more British weapons isn't anything to do with the Modern Crapfare. It's about originality. There's very few games that have Sterlings, Bren Guns and Enfield Rifles (WW2 CoD games might have them -.-) but it'd be nice to bring these weapons to the modern settings and kill zombies with them.

Just because a weapon is not british does not mean its not original, I dont give a flying Sh!t where the weapon came from, If it is going to keep me alive, and put a large smoking hole where its eyesocket was as well as look nice doing it, Then I can care less where it came from, just because it happens to be american doesnt mean it does not have value. Even if it is found on modern warfare(not that I even like the game anyways ).

 

[nath2009uk]

Modern Warfare ruins young minds like the above.
Crumpets.

Also, I would see this as a pretty useful class, but like said, the firebug does the same, except it isn't used alot.

Crumpets.

 

[C_Gibby]

Just because a weapon is not british does not mean its not original, I dont give a flying Sh!t where the weapon came from, If it is going to keep me alive, and put a large smoking hole where its eyesocket was as well as look nice doing it, Then I can care less where it came from, just because it happens to be american doesnt mean it does not have value. Even if it is found on modern warfare(not that I even like the game anyways ).

If there could be any weapon from "that sodding game" I would like to see in KF, it's be the "1884."

I just call it Terminator 2 Shotgun (I think it's also called Winchester Jubilee, but I could be wrong...)

 

[GCameron]

Yeah the firebug kind of does this, but it does massive damage, does have headshot multipliers, and it kills everything but the stronger enemies. Plus it can make it hard for your team to see. And well... the firebug doesn't get to carry a sexy M240B...

About the British weaponry thing, I'm al,l for adding british weapons, but why not add weapons with other origins too?

 

[Unit-05]

If there could be any weapon from "that sodding game" I would like to see in KF, it's be the "1884."

I just call it Terminator 2 Shotgun (I think it's also called Winchester Jubilee, but I could be wrong...)

the one they had in modern warfare ironically was the winchester model 1901, which that one is a 10 gauge lever action shotgun, the actual 1887 shotgun had a longer barrel and was in 12 gauge if I remember correctly, although I could be wrong
YouTube - The Winchester Model 1887 Lever Action Shotgun