Always hits in the middle of the screen

[CrashFu]

Don't ruin a game for others because some people are too lazy to get good at it or "realism." The more hours you put into a game, the better you should get. If you set the max skill limit to be lower, the game becomes extremely boring for people who put in a lot of hours. That's what a lot of people love about KF is that if you practice enough you can do all sorts of crazy and cool things that are skill related. People who have 1k+ hours SHOULD be better than people with 100 hours. Don't be lazy.

It's funny, because I could literally just quote this back at yourself and be arguing my own point.

You want to make a basic function of our weapons, the sights/scope, completely redundant and obsolete because you're too lazy to use them? You keep talking about people who are "skilled" but I've got some news for you..

situational awareness IS a skill. Knowing when to keep on the move and keep your eyes out, and when to line up a critical shot, is a skill.

If you're struggling to stay alive unless you can consistently get in your headshots WHILE backpedaling at full speed with your FoV intact simultaneously, WE aren't the ones lacking skills.


Two more things I hate to break to you:

TWI are professional game designers, and as such have already decided that hip-shots aren't going to be laser-accurate for the very reasons I justified. There's going to be weapon sway. You're going to have to accept that.

And according to the PC Gamer article, Sharpshooters now get bonuses WHILE STANDING STILL. So if you want to run a backwards marathon while taking things heads off with a crossbow, that's going to be impractical for both the loss of accuracy AND the inefficiency of missing out on whatever bonuses standing still give.


But in an effort to be an amicable member of the community, I've got reassuring things to say as well:

1) I suspect you're going to really enjoy the new Gunslinger perk. This is just speculation, but I believe the class will have a focus on combining mobility AND precision. Handguns are light and easy to handle so they'll probably have more hip-fired precision, and it's hard to imagine a handgun-focused class NOT having an emphasis on mobility, especially since their parent class is now focused on planting their feet down and sniping tactical targets.

2) There's also the possibility that guns with laser-assists will have an actual benefit now, when it comes to reducing sway when hip-firing. If so, those would be the guns of choice for someone with your play-style.

 

[larkstongues42]

Man so much tush flusteration in this thread.

Skell, hence the "Don't be lazy" comment. It seems a lot of people just want a "level playing field" because they're lazy.

Joker. Its a challenge when there's a crawler 40 "feet" out. I have a pretty good idea where the position is on my screen but its not exact enough sometimes. Also, my beef is with people who want to nerf hip firing a lot(mainly cause 'realism" or cause they're too lazy to get good with it). The truth is that TWI hasn't said much and we won't really know until early access/release about how it is done and how it'll effect gameplay. Also if hip firing isn't a challenge to you, do you have any videos of you hip firing an EBR in game or something? Since if hip firing aiming is so EZ you should be able to wreck anything with the EBR.

CrashFu. No to just about everything you just said. I also find the fact that you think I'll like the gun slinger perk. Since I have my own custom server and that was the first thing I disabled.

 

[KingJoker]

Man so much tush flusteration in this thread.

Skell, hence the "Don't be lazy" comment. It seems a lot of people just want a "level playing field" because they're lazy.

Joker. Its a challenge when there's a crawler 40 "feet" out. I have a pretty good idea where the position is on my screen but its not exact enough sometimes. Also, my beef is with people who want to nerf hip firing a lot(mainly cause 'realism" or cause they're too lazy to get good with it). The truth is that TWI hasn't said much and we won't really know until early access/release about how it is done and how it'll effect gameplay. Also if hip firing isn't a challenge to you, do you have any videos of you hip firing an EBR in game or something? Since if hip firing aiming is so EZ you should be able to wreck anything with the EBR.

Once again you deploy your usual tactic of attackings others? Stop? It's pathetic and fails to ever be constructive - you're not getting your point across and your doing nothing but be a bully, i'm doing my best to make sure i don't feed your problem - but i feel responsible to show you how to show respect in a discussion for your self and others.

If they do nerf it and youre stuck with only having to relearn hip firing why is it so bad? You get to be really good at it, as you claim to be, and that's that? If anything nerfing hipfire aids "skilled players" and "unskilled players" are left in the dark.

 

[mrsirr]

Problem with RO2 is that hip shooting seems to be overly randomized and luck only.

More even than one would expect in the real world i feel, which was always disappointing, but i understand why they do it, because it would probably ruin the game.

But in RO2 I think they should keep it in the centre, but increase recoil on hip shooting, rather than randomize where the bullet goes on each hip shot.

It isn't randomized in RO2, the bullet just goes wherever your gun is pointing, which is rarely at the center of the screen because of free-aim.

 

[mrsirr]

And yes, they said hipfiring will be different in KF2, like Red Orchestra minus the actuall free-aim from what I understand; so the bullet goes where the gun is pointing at the time.

 

[larkstongues42]

Once again you deploy your usual tactic of attackings others? Stop? It's pathetic and fails to ever be constructive - you're not getting your point across and your doing nothing but be a bully, i'm doing my best to make sure i don't feed your problem - but i feel responsible to show you how to show respect in a discussion for your self and others.

If they do nerf it and youre stuck with only having to relearn hip firing why is it so bad? You get to be really good at it, as you claim to be, and that's that? If anything nerfing hipfire aids "skilled players" and "unskilled players" are left in the dark.

I'm not bullying anyone. You said hip firing wasn't a challenge and I want you personally to back that up and prove it. Hell, if you can't record anything, I operate 4 kf servers and and have admin to 2(or it 3..) others. If you want I can create a server just for you. I will personally make sure you have everything you need in order to back up your claim that hip firing isn't a challenge.

You made a statement and I want you to back it up. This isn't bullying or a personal attack. This proving that you are correct with undeniable proof.

 

[KingJoker]

I'm not bullying anyone. You said hip firing wasn't a challenge and I want you personally to back that up and prove it. Hell, if you can't record anything, I operate 4 kf servers and and have admin to 2(or it 3..) others. If you want I can create a server just for you. I will personally make sure you have everything you need in order to back up your claim that hip firing isn't a challenge.

You made a statement and I want you to back it up. This isn't bullying or a personal attack. This proving that you are correct with undeniable proof.

You're still refraining from being aggressive.

Hip Firing isn't that much of a challenge in Killing Floor and plenty of other games have much more challenging hip firing, KF2 go off from Ro2 (never played it), but it seems as though hip firig will work off where the gun is - the shot goes? Which is something anybody should be excited for.

 

[mrsirr]

Well whether or not something is a challenge is completely subjective; though I think what he was saying is that having the bullet always hit center screen is suprizingly lax, most games have it hit randomly so that hipfire can't effectively be used, which isn't really realistic but then neither is the perfect muscle memory these guys in the game have. Basicly, hip-fire could be made harder, which it will be.

 

[larkstongues42]

You're still refraining from being aggressive.

Hip Firing isn't that much of a challenge in Killing Floor and plenty of other games have much more challenging hip firing, KF2 go off from Ro2 (never played it), but it seems as though hip firig will work off where the gun is - the shot goes? Which is something anybody should be excited for.

If you are refusing to provide any proof. Could you please retract your previous statement?

 

[KingJoker]

If you are refusing to provide any proof. Could you please retract your previous statement?

You don't need any confirmation from a simple fact. You have to stop and humble yourself, if your able to do it why is it so impossible for anyone else to do it? and perhaps even better then you. Quit picking fights. it's exhausting. Im not going to enable you.

Also, understand im not attempting to offend you - im simply trying to help you understand what im attempting to convey.

 

[CrashFu]

CrashFu. No to just about everything you just said. I also find the fact that you think I'll like the gun slinger perk. Since I have my own custom server and that was the first thing I disabled.

So, you're adamant that the way you want to play the game is exactly how reasonable speculation says the Gunslinger perk is going to play..

But you're dead set on NOT using the Gunslinger perk when you don't even know how it might differ from whatever KF1 mod you're using...

Meanwhile you're equally dead-set on playing as Sharpshooter...

Even though it's been confirmed that Sharpshooter is the LEAST conductive perk for your intended playstyle?



Dude, I'm all in favor of intentionally using classes the way they aren't intended to be played (you should have seen my 100 strength, 30 mind Necromancer back in D2. Or any of my Torchlight 2 characters, haha) but this is a bit much.


Sharpshooter weapons are all ones that are expressly designed for stability and careful aiming. To want to run around and casually no-scope/hip-fire perfect-accuracy shots with them is like saying you want a low-calorie cheesecake; Someone could find a way to make you one but it's going to taste like ****.

 

[larkstongues42]

You don't need any confirmation from a simple fact. You have to stop and humble yourself, if your able to do it why is it so impossible for anyone else to do it? and perhaps even better then you. Quit picking fights. it's exhausting. Im not going to enable you.

It isn't a simple fact. In fact many of the best sharps in KF I've seen, (Thor and dev being two of them) ADS. If hip firing isn't a challenge then why do the best sharps I've seen play mainly ADS? If hip firing isn't a challenge to you, I'm VERY interested in seeing you play sharp without ADSing. =3

 

[larkstongues42]

So, you're adamant that the way you want to play the game is exactly how reasonable speculation says the Gunslinger perk is going to play..

But you're dead set on NOT using the Gunslinger perk when you don't even know how it might differ from whatever KF1 mod you're using...

Meanwhile you're equally dead-set on playing as Sharpshooter...

Even though it's been confirmed that Sharpshooter is the LEAST conductive perk for your intended playstyle?



Dude, I'm all in favor of intentionally using classes the way they aren't intended to be played (you should have seen my 100 strength, 30 mind Necromancer back in D2. Or any of my Torchlight 2 characters, haha) but this is a bit much.


Sharpshooter weapons are all ones that are expressly designed for stability and careful aiming. To want to run around and casually no-scope/hip-fire perfect-accuracy shots with them is like saying you want a low-calorie cheesecake; Someone could find a way to make you one but it's going to taste like ****.

Have you even seen me play sharp (sober)?

 

[CrashFu]

Have you even seen me play sharp (sober)?

Not relevant. You've described how you like to play and that's exactly how Sharp is designed NOT to play in KF2.

You'll have to make a choice: either reluctantly accept needing to handle rifles and crossbows the way they were designed to be used if you want to do well, or embrace a class that's purpose-built for the gameplay style you prefer.

IE the Gunslinger. Speculatively. Or the berzerker, if "precision neck chopping" is the same as "precision headshotting" for you. Or grab a perk that doesn't need to aim for the head at all.

 

[larkstongues42]

Bbwwwaaaaahhhaaahhhaaaahahahahahaha

Oh god, I'm laughing so hard right now. People are looking in my office now. My sides. Hahahahahaha

Bless you, crashFu, you made my day.

 

[|WC|Capt.525]

What I don't understand is how hip firing turned into "frantically headshotting everything while back pedaling". The M14 was made for hip firing, so you could effectively hold down your side against both Trash and the bigger things (FPs/SCs), and you can do that without running backwards. I don't see how using or not using the iron sights makes you more or less skilled (although no ADS definately takes more practice and has obvious advantages), and I don't see why so many people are against keeping it the way it is now. Personally I don't care which way it goes, I'll adjust either way, but I don't see the need for the flaming going on.

@: Crashfu: if half the Sharps I know played the way you described, they would be lucky to finish a map, let alone get past wave 2 on a biolabs solo.

I just hope that this change doesn't rule out sustained accurate hipfire the way that RO2 does (each shot moves the gun up and to the right a little, changing the point of impact, until you zero it back by going in and out of ADS), because that would be ruling out a fundamental play style for many players.

 

[karsey22]

I really like how the gunfire is handled in kf1 right now and it's a really big reason I've enjoyed the game as much as I have. You can always depend on your weapon to fire in the middle of the screen regardless if you are ADS'd or strafing or jumping or what not. I don't care if it's not 'realistic' I find the gunplay in kf to be a lot more satisfying to play than most other shooting games and that is a huge part of it. I would be slightly disappointed if this mechanic was severely altered in kf2. Here's to hoping it's the same or very similar, for me anyway.

Apparently there are people here who think hipfire should be random/useless/penalized in some way because that's how it would be in real life or for whatever reasons...

I disagree. Standard bullet fire without a penalized hipfire spread makes the game much more enjoyable for me. But hey, this is just an opinion. I'm sure there's lots of opposite opinions. Looking at how successful kf1 was I don't think they're going to change up the formula too much so I am optimistic about this aspect.

 

[mrsirr]

If I understand them right, the aiming system will basicly be like RO2 action mode, where the character will always try to aim at the center of the screen, but if his gun moves away from recoil/sway/movement, the shot fired will go wherever the gun is pointing. So it still has perfectly accurate hipfire; now instead of getting a feel for the center of the screen, you'll have to be able to tell at what point your gun is pointing by looking at it.

 

[CrashFu]

What we know for certain is that KF2 does away with handling the simulation of sway/recoil via bullet spread and has SOME kind of more realistic recoil / sway mechanic that compensates for this, presumably similar to RO2, yes.

And, unless the PC Gamer article was completely mistaken in their information:

The Sharpshooter gets a bonus for standing still. Skilled teams will pump out big damage by protecting their sniper at all costs.

So to recap, TWI removed handgun skills from Sharpshooter, making them less suited to dealing with numerous threats up close (or to wasting bullets on numerous weak enemies at all, if they can help it) and they're encouraging you to stand still and carefully line up your shots against what you ARE meant to focus on, individual enemies of high health or priority while your teammates watch your back.

With that officially stated information in mind, why wouldn't you want to use your sights/scope on most shots? You have to make every shot count, and you're encouraged to stand still while making those shots and have your teammates cover you.

Therefore, hip-firing with sharp-shooter weapons (except as a desperate last-ditch effort, like firing grenades point-blank as demolitions) is not ONLY unrealistic, as of KF2 it gives you absolutely no benefit. Even if you're just quick-scoping your shots, that's better than not aiming at all.


Everyone needs to stop saying "I'm optimistic that it will be the same as KF1" or "I'll be mad if it's not the same as KF1" when it has already been officially stated that it WILL NOT BE. All this denial is exasperating.

 

[karsey22]

...So to recap, TWI removed handgun skills from Sharpshooter, making them less suited to dealing with numerous threats up close (or to wasting bullets on numerous weak enemies at all, if they can help it) and they're encouraging you to stand still and carefully line up your shots against what you ARE meant to focus on, individual enemies of high health or priority while your teammates watch your back.

This is a blatant speculation. You have received a minute bit of information and you're running away with assumptions. You don't know that Sharpshooters will be less suited for dealing with numerous threats up close - you only know that they will now get a bonus for standing still and are making an assumption with the rest. This does not imply a penalty for moving or rule out the possibility of getting different bonuses for still using pistols or any non-rifle weapon, or maybe a separate bonus is applied while they are moving. You do not have all the information. No one does yet.

With that officially stated information in mind, why wouldn't you want to use your sights/scope on most shots? You have to make every shot count, and you're encouraged to stand still while making those shots and have your teammates cover you.

That's a good question, and maybe I can answer it for you. When aiming to make a shot, the process might look something like this:

See enemy--> Aim Down Sight--> Line up Crosshair--> Pull Trigger

This process takes up an amount of time which depends on many factors: distance to enemy, positioning, etc etc.

Now if you can put in the effort and practice (literally 100's to 1000's of hours), you can get to the point where you ADS to get an initial position, or confirm where you have the 'feel' for the middle of your screen. Certainly you don't ONLY hipfire or ONLY ADS, it's definitely a combination but when you can rely on accurate hipfire, the process becomes this:

See Enemy --> Aim --> Pull Trigger

It doesn't seem much faster written down, but it absolutely is in game. And in a game where one quick well placed shot can be the difference between an achievement earned and a wipe, learning to hipfire accurately is as rewarding to the player as it is an asset to the team.

Therefore, hip-firing with sharp-shooter weapons (except as a desperate last-ditch effort, like firing grenades point-blank as demolitions) is not ONLY unrealistic, as of KF2 it gives you absolutely no benefit. Even if you're just quick-scoping your shots, that's better than not aiming at all.

Once again you're kind of going off on a speculation here but there's no need to repeat myself. I will mention it's important to realize that the hipfire mechanic effects every perk and every weapon, not just sharpshooter.

Everyone needs to stop saying "I'm optimistic that it will be the same as KF1" or "I'll be mad if it's not the same as KF1" when it has already been officially stated that it WILL NOT BE. All this denial is exasperating.

Since I'm the only one in the thread that used the word 'optimistic' I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that was directed at me and not 'everyone'.

I didn't say I thought it'd be the same, I stated my opinion on the current mechanic in kf1 and that given the success they've had with kf1, I'm guessing they're not going to change things up too much. Tripwire usually does their weapons very well, which is why I'm optimistic and looking forward to what kf2 brings us.

Do you prefer hipfire to be inaccurate, unpredictable and unreliable? If so, why? For realism? Do you think it makes the game more challenging? I'm genuinely curious. I think the current kf1 mechanic adds another layer of gun skill to the game - instead of useless hipfire you can learn to use it to your advantage. We don't know what KF2 is going to be like - You said we know it's different, but to what degree? Or if it's only certain weapons that will behave differently etc. It's kind of pointless to argue about what's going to be. We will find out when they let us! We don't have enough information to make any meaningful assumptions yet. However I do like the discussion of this particular mechanic.