Alot of NICE feats for UT99!?!

[Teq]

I thought these features were going to be in Mare Nostrum on release..?

From front page

Gameplay features will include:

• Looking over the iron sights with MGs
• Using the IS on Sniper rifles for close range shots (where applicable).
• A glint reflection off of glass scopes.
• Ability to call artillery from certain vehicles.
• The ability to cycle the bolt to eject unused bullets.
• Mantling over objects such as sandbags and fences.

...

I'll be carefull to say anything about it as I am very new to the crew and havent got the full overview on the progress yet.
I'll give you an update as soon as I've had a chat with them.

 

[Teq]

Some of these things are completely uneeded, such as the destruction (unless its just grenades shattering glass, etc.) But alot of this should be used, seriously. If TW want to make a revolution in the tactical shooter genre, then they need to implement features like this.

Completely uneeded?
Hmm... Every man/wommen has to make up his own mind...
In real life I would hate if my grenade or MG42 didnt shatter a wooden door....
I'd slowly look upward towards the heaven and start to beleive that there truly is a god....
The same goes for not penetrating a wooden wall with the 88mm Tiger canon......

I just imagine the germans faces when they hit that wooden door and the whole house disapears in smoke and fire....
And as the dust settles, there isnt a scratch on the door!!!! hahahaha

Another fun part is the well discussed MG suppression....
I cant help my self imagine the germans at the D-day landing, fireing away at the landing carriers,
but nobody bothers.. they all just stops, aims and with great arrogance gun you down with a single rifle shot! hohoho...

 

[Isaak Johnson]

After reading the article and watching all the videos, along with reading the origional tactical game article, I must say that I'm inspried with a lot of new gaming concepts and ideas.

Personally I do believe that a LOT of these ideas that Infiltration had tried look like they could work really well.

Now I admit I have not played Infiltration yet, I'm going to download it tomorrow and play the living megabytes out of it untill I can get a feel of what concepts work and which ones dont. So hopefully I'll have a better understanding as those of you who have played it have.

But just based on the article, reguardles if the ideas work in Infiltration, some sound like the NEED to be added to RO.

Freeaim while ironsights and its different recoil system, using iron sights on a scoped weapon, quick ammo clip check, freeaim grenade throwing, weapon collision, slower and limited prone and crouch turning and speed, player movement around a mounted weapon, realistic grenade physics are all ones that strike me as RO compatable without changing the game from anything that it allready was.

Now I would have added their penetration system to that little list but I am logically guessing that it may have worked in Infiltration because the game wasn't as graphically demanding as RO is. But they said it was triggered by the different textures, and their engine is the outdated Unreal engine, which says to me that it could be possible in RO if done right since the RO is basically the same but newer and more powerful.

Personally I think these ideas would be welcomed with open arms by the RO community. The few ideas that I hear are a bit dogey in Infiltration dont have to be copied exactly the way they are used if there are problems with them, TW can do the same idea differently if it means it could be more solid and playable.

In the end, the ideas I would MOST like to see are the freeaim ironsights and weapon colission as I feel that both of those can drastically effect RO's playability toward somthing more realistic without making the game seem totally different.

Well thats my two cents on this subject, tomorrow I'm going to download Infiltration and try to gain as much experience as those of you who have played it, maybe afte I'm finished my tune might change and I wont feel the same way as I do in this post.

Thank you for your time.

 

[Teq]

I downloaded it yesterday and tried it out for some hours.
Unfortunantly I didnt have the chance of playing with a team, only with bots, which as allways behave strange.. but hehe better than RO.

The first and only Feat I liked was the gun modelling and weapon realism...
Especially the ironsights, weaponsounds, penetration and weapon collision.
The graphics and movement was ofcourse way outdated, and rendered the game allmost unplayable.
But apart from the graphics and some character animations, I had many good hours testing out weapons.

The breath retention was another part I liked.
Right click to bring up IS, then hold for a sec and the aim stabilizes abit. Then If you continue to hold you soon need oxygen and get a small penality sway for holding too long.

Fully 3D weapons with correct reticule movement (you see the front crosshair move separatly from the rear sights when you move) it looks very realistic.

And not to forget the tactical and dry reload....
If you reload tactically you hear that you put back the partly used clip in a pouch and drag up a new one.
But if you emty your clip you hear the clip fall to the ground and then you grab for a new one from your pouch.

As expected, the weapon collision was abit clumsy at times, cause I was used to being able to move all the way into a wall, then peek around it with IS up.
With long rifles this was not possible, so I had to keep a good distance from the wall to be able to lean and shoot.
The anoying part about this, is that in real life I would be able to jerk the rifle around the corner and fire... but in Inf. I couldnt fire from is Cause it jammed into the wall (i had to fire from the hip)
I am sure this system could be used with a little smart modification.

The weaponrecoil was really good and feelt like in real life (atleast the G3, M16 and Mp5 which I have fired my self in RL)
The RO SMG recoils are simply not realistic.
Maybe you get a nice pack when standing upright, but kneeling and prone would be ALOT easier to control.
The only part is that the recoil would differ abit with the shooters strength and weight, but I dont care much about this.

Anyone else tried it and notice any good things about it?
A light person would experience greater recoil and less burst control.

 

[Murphy]

The weaponrecoil was really good and felt like in real life (atleast the G3, M16 and Mp5 which I have fired my self in RL)
The RO SMG recoils are simply not realistic.

Maybe the problem isn

 

[fOgGy]

Wouldn't all these ideas work alot better with the upcoming Unreal Engine 3 ?

 

[Tak]

Infiltration really has some golden ideas, just they weren't implemented in the best of ways IMO. Part of that was technology limitations (it was only a mod) but I think a developement team with proper funding could pull it off.


*couh*

 

[Teq]

Wouldn't all these ideas work alot better with the upcoming Unreal Engine 3 ?

Well maybe yes....
But not if the Devs dont like em...
And I havent got any confirmation that they do yet.
Just that they only have one coder doing all the work.

It seem like they are applying for a another or new coder now....
Maybe they will give us a nice suprise for christmas.
Anyway they have to do something clever to be able to keep the realism people once Armed assault is released.

Armed assault will give a realism and flexibillity level that few games have seen... ofcourse IF they manage to pull it of....
If it feels exactly like Operation flashpoint did in 2000, Ill probably going to keep playing RO.

 

[Dslyecxi]

Armed assault will give a realism and flexibillity level that few games have seen... ofcourse IF they manage to pull it of....
If it feels exactly like Operation flashpoint did in 2000, Ill probably going to keep playing RO.

Have you played Flashpoint with any good mods, or with a good group of players? I run an OFP group that plays the Wargames League mod (more realism, more intensity, more fun), we have one big session a week along with smaller pick-up games throughout the week. The big sessions are amazing, the kind of gameplay you get in the missions we have is completely unlike anything you could get from other games. I doubt you've played Flashpoint the way it's meant to be played, or with good mods/players, or I think you'd be singing a different tune.

Here's an example of one of the most recent missions we've been playing.

As to Armed Assault, I'll be doing a very in-depth review of it prior to it coming out, so... stay tuned. It'll be worth the wait. So will the game itself.

 

[fire4effect]

Sry to hijack the thread for a quick sec,

Hey Dslyecxi, I have to say that I really enjoyed the article you wrote about Infiltration. I had read another article on your site in the past and enjoyed it very much but forgot what site I read it on. Just letting you know your site has found a home in my favorites folder .

I had never heard of the mod before, and after going through the article I would like to check it out. I went onto the official site and saw where to dl the mod but there was a couple of mutators (mag check) and weapons (G3A3, m14, FN FaL) that you used in the vids that I don't know where to search for, unless the mod dl is updated to have all these above features incorperated into it. (need to find ut before I try to dl and install the mod)

I would greatly appreciate it if you (anyone else too) could pm me, or suggest the locations where you found basically everything to get Infiltration up and running. Again thanks for the good read.

---And hopefully we'll see some of these features implemented into RO.

 

[Dslyecxi]

Hey Dslyecxi, I have to say that I really enjoyed the article you wrote about Infiltration. I had read another article on your site in the past and enjoyed it very much but forgot what site I read it on. Just letting you know your site has found a home in my favorites folder .

Glad to hear it.

I would greatly appreciate it if you (anyone else too) could pm me, or suggest the locations where you found basically everything to get Infiltration up and running. Again thanks for the good read.

Here's the Infiltration pack I assembled for my group.
http://files.filefront.com/Infiltration_ShackTacrar/;5441576;;/fileinfo.html

Here's the relevant info on it, as posted in our forum:

Infiltration Quick Start

1. Make sure you have UT patched to 436!
2. Download the ShackTac Infiltration compilation from here: http://ofp.umbr.net/Shack/Infiltration/Infiltration_ShackTac.rar Alternate download location.
3. Unrar it into your UnrealTournament folder, it has a directory structure of it's own and will put files in the Help, Infiltration, and System directories.
4. If you DON'T have an Nvidia sound system, run the OpenALwEAX installer.
5. Launch Infiltration, configure your keys. Note that console is \ by default. Use InfPlay.exe to launch, NOT infiltration.exe!

Mutators
When playing against bots on your own system, you'll want to ensure that you have the right mutators set up. Here's a graphic that shows the ones you'll want to have enabled. ENSURE that you do not have "RollingM67" loaded, that conflicts with the Community Weapons Pack.





Infiltration User Config File
The Infiltration config file is: UT\System\InfiltrationUser.ini

There are a few keys that must be bound through manually editing that file. They are weapon deployment, nightvision, and bandaging. Of those, only nightvision and deployment are critical to have bound. Bandaging can be done via the Equipment menu.

The default binds in the included config are as follows:
Deployment: B=mutate mutdodeploy
Nightvision: U=nvision

Bandaging is not bound by default. The command to use in the config is:
key=mutate banddobandage

Enhanced Audio/Video
By default in this package you'll have the enhanced audio/video stuff installed and activated. If for whatever reason it gets disabled, do the following to bring it back.

Open UT\System\Infiltration.ini, find the part which says AudioDevice= and change it to AudioDevice=AlAudio.AlAudioSubsystem.
Find the line starting with GameRenderDevice= and change it to GameRenderDevice=OpenGLDrv.OpenGLRenderDevice.

Questions/Feedback
If you have any questions about how to get this working, or about the game in general, post them here.

You can also find help in the Official Infiltration Forums.

There will be a Community Edition of Infiltration coming out "soon" that should be an even better installer, as it's made by people who are much more familiar with all the Infiltration community content than I am. Mine should do just fine in the meantime, though.

 

[Teq]

Have you played Flashpoint with any good mods, or with a good group of players? I run an OFP group that plays the Wargames League mod (more realism, more intensity, more fun), we have one big session a week along with smaller pick-up games throughout the week. The big sessions are amazing, the kind of gameplay you get in the missions we have is completely unlike anything you could get from other games. I doubt you've played Flashpoint the way it's meant to be played, or with good mods/players, or I think you'd be singing a different tune.

Here's an example of one of the most recent missions we've been playing.

As to Armed Assault, I'll be doing a very in-depth review of it prior to it coming out, so... stay tuned. It'll be worth the wait. So will the game itself.

I have been playing WGL, FDF, INv44, FFUR and alot of differnt mods, and yes they are good, but I cant find anyone to play with that arent running around doing rambo behaviour .(
Also I feel that some of the functions in OFP are abit ****ed, example:
not being able to abort actions and REALLY poor shortrange combat (IE get stuck in buildnings and clumsy movement inside.
Also some of the weapon functions are abit static... Ie manning MG's you are stuck to it (unable to move) and bound to get shot...

If you know anyone to play WGL with or wish to have more serious players, you can contact me on MSN at [email protected].

 

[SiC-Disaster]

i really really like the free-aiming in ironsights, being able to look over your weapon like that and stuff, it would be really great to have that in RO too

 

[fire4effect]

Thank you very much Dslyexci for such an indepth reply! I applaud the work you put into that post. I'll start getting all the material together and hopefully I'll get that mod up and running!

---Also almost forgot, what do you think of this game:

http://www.alliancethegame.com/

It's sounds pretty robust just like 1944-Day.

 

[Teq]

Yes nicely done.
Lets see if the Dev's are responding to ya soon...
Btw Dslyexci, have you looked at our RO-Realitymod/mut?

http://www.redorchestragame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11008

If you have the time, please read a few posts, and comment.
As a member of the Mare Nosdrum team, there is a slight chance to get something thru for us realism freaks

 

[[TW]Ramm-Jaeger]

Having been an avid Inf player (from 2.75 on...), I have to put it a little bit in perspective for those who haven't played it: Allthough it was propably the most innovative FPS, it still felt awkward, unfinished and clumsy, even after the last patch, which took well over 2 years to be developed.
I don't know what modders and fans made, and how it is played now, but "out of the box" many praised features in that article simply were not part of the game, and others, while looking good on paper, felt simply as if the devs wanted to artificially cripple the players abilities.

The weapon collision for example, a thing that we never ever have seen in any other game. and boy, does this system look sexy on paper. in game though, it turned out that your gun (and your viewpoint, despite "free-aim") sticked to surfaces, and was only to be freed again by serious fiddling with the controls. On CQC maps you were literally fighting the system more than the enemy.

Also, the whole controls feel kind of remote, as if you were controlling an infantry sized mech, and not be the soldier himself.

You've hit the nail on the head, this is exactly how I feel about the game.

A list of fancy features is neat, but it's the implementation that matters. I've never seen Ramm badmouth Infiltration, but if he did, he was probably right. From what little Infiltration I played, I thought it was the oddest hodgepodge of grand ideas and half-assed execution. It made me wonder whether the mod team even played their own game.

And you've hit the nail on the head as well.

And just so that I can stop Dyslexia from putting words in my mouth and making up false statements and false opinions for me I'll give my stance on Infiltration again in this thread. This is the same thing I have been saying for years:

"In my opinion INF had a lot of great ideas, but they were poorly implemented. The game played poorly, and to me was an example of how NOT to make a realism game. The game didn't feel realistic to me, but rather 'difficult for difficulties sake'. That isn't the way I like my realism games."

There are many people that like INF's style of realism, and that is fine. That isn't to say that they are wrong for liking it, but it is not the realistic game implementation that Tripwire or I enjoy or like to make. And that doesn't make Tripwire wrong either. Different poeple have different tastes of what they like. Realism games are the same way.

This is something, for whatever reason, that Dyslexia has never been able to understand, and why he hounds the RO devs still. It seems that in Dyslexia's mind there is a "perfect" paradigm for realism gaming, and that if a game differs from his idea of the "perfect" realism game implementation it is somehow fundamentally flawed. The fact is, there is no "perfect" implementation of a realism game. Different groups of realism gaming fans will always have different opinions of what they enjoy and consider good realistic gameplay.

My opinion of realistic gameplay obviously differs from Dyslexia's. That doesn't make him or me wrong. The problem is that Dyslexia doesn't get that, and seems to believe that if he keeps beating me and the RO community up with his opinion (which he has been doing for years) that somehow we'll come around to his way of thinking. This of course will never happen. I highly respect Dyslexia in most regards, but from time to time I just have to tell him to piss off. This is again one of those times.

If you look throughout this thread you will see prime examples of Dyslexia's inability to handle opinions that differ from his idea of "perfect" realism gameplay. Any time someone doesn't agree with his opinion "You just must not have played the game enough" or "You didn't install the right mods" etc etc. He can't seem to come to grips with the fact that other poeple like different types of realism games, and won't necessarily conform to his paradigm of the "perfect" tactical shooter.

Regarding Tripwire and the way we function, Tripwire is certainly not at Dictatorship, as Dyslexia would have you beleive. I do not dictate to the team what RO's gameplay will be. We all discuss our ideas in design meetings, and everyone has a say. We have votes on all the design decisions where the team's ideas differ. The reason that RO is the way that it is, is because the Tripwire TEAM, likes this type of game and gameplay. That is why no amount of militant nagging by Dyslexia over the years has changed the core gameplay of RO. The team at Tripwire will never cease to like the type of gameplay that we like, period. We're always on the lookout for new ideas, both from external sources like other games or mods, and internal sources. But these ideas have to fit whtin our ideal of "simplist realism" to be implemented. That is just the way we are. Love it or hate it, thats Tripwire, and thats the type of games we make.

 

[zeep]

I guess it's up to some people's taste what they like. If you like your weapons sticking through walls and you want wooden fences to stop tank shells, well then go for it. Infiltration requires more from a player, things that RO doesn't want a player to do. Weapon collision is a degree of interpretation of realism in weapon handling, some may not like it, others applaud it.

I've found Dslyexia's article's thorough, informative, inspiring and honest and i'm glad more people see it that way. It only seems logical, having read the articles, that his opinion is biased. Why else write an article?

The arguments by Dslyexia in this discussion hardy resemble an inability to handle opinions Ramm, if anything it's vice versa. I also can't see how a "piss off" from you contributes to this discussion in the first place. It's not a good ettiquete for a President.

 

[Yoshiro]

Several of the things on this list are allready ingame such as reloading a weapon to get +1 round and true balistics...

And just read ramm's post for our stance on the subject.

Also keep in mind our wish list is probably much greater then any other persons wish list for RO:O. We just have a better understanding of what it would take to implement some things and have decided they will not make it into this game.

1) Yes we will continue to support RO with additional content, features and bug fixes. No we will not be completly revamping systems in most cases if not all unless we truely deem it as needed.

2) At some point we do have to turn our primary focus onto our game 2 where we will have a greater chance of revamping systems.

Dslyexia and Ramm both have their opinion. There are people who agree with both of them, and others who don't agree with either I am sure! That doesn't make either wrong. As long as rational discussion and the flow of opinions continues, we will continue to use those to update our game and to plan features for our next game.

Personal insults from either side of the argument are bad. If you have something that might be questionable to say to another party, keep it to PM. Some of you are very opinionated and this can come off as being argumentitive when read by others, so please go over what you write on the subject before you post it and try to keep from misquoting and pulling text out of context. This only serves to confuse and ignite the issue even more.

hehe had this image commisioned some time ago but have forgotten to use it!

 

[fire4effect]

One aspect of Infiltration that I find to be pretty stellar is the bullet penetration and richocet system. I'm curious as to why so many(like myself) have been waiting for some magical engine in the future to model this(U3) when it's been already implemented in a mod that is serveral years old? Was it easier to do with that version of the unreal engine? Were their more loop holes that made programming for that possible, unlike the current engines?

Sure, it'a apparent that many of the features of the mod are disliked by the RO dev team, but how about this feature? Just curious as to why someone got that working years ago and it hasn't surfaced in games like RO?

 

[Yoshiro]

A quick search on penitration of these forums will find you the answer on that.

We would love to have penitration. But with our balistic model if we implement it it will overload the servers and clients and kill the game. Yes, we are looking for a way to do it without that happening. No, we haven't found one yet.

As I said, there are many things we would love to do. Like manteling. But you will also find a post in these forums from ramm on the topic. We estimate it would take a minimum of 3 months of work on our part with no additional content or bug fixes during that time.