Alot of NICE feats for UT99!?!

[Teq]

I just ran into this page:
http://dslyecxi.com/botg_infiltration.html

My pubic hairs is starting to raise when I see the vid's from this 99' Game!
I really think TW should consider incorporate some of theese ones if they can....
Im not saying that RO ****s ass, I just wonder if its possible to upgrade some of theese feats as well, without lagging the server.

NB There are more good articles by the same guy.
He has his own AR-15 rifle to demonstrate how 1st person view would look like in real life and compare it with many of the existing games.

Examples of what RO could benefit from:

Movement and Views:
* Fluid stance and Freelook - Gradual stance and leaning
* True first person - See your own body when looking down.
* Mantling/climbing over obstacles
* Realistic prone - Shuffle around instead of spinning on a point.
* Encumbrance - If you carry heavy loads you bleed stamina quickly
* Momentum/inertia - Delay between postures (Slower getting up)


Gunnery:
* Sight adjustments - Its done for tanks, would be nice for sniper and rifles.
* Ballistics - I dont notice much bullet drop in RO... (is it there?)
* Breathing and breath holding - Right click normal IS, Hold right, Slight zoom, and hold breath for temp stable Aim.

Reload and Failures:
* Dry vs Tactical reloads, +1 reloading.
* 0.1% chance of jams for MG's and auto's.

Weapon handling:
* weapon collision - Withdraw weapon when close to walls.

Audio effects:
* 3D voicecom - Local mic sound fade with distance.
* Supersonic bullets - Correct battle sounds.

Interaction with environment:
* Penetration/destruction - Simple penetration model for wood (been discussed before .. but hehe )
* Doors and breaching - Able to destruct doors.

Gear:
* Maps/watch/compass - Commanders able to draw on map for teammates to view.

Suppression effect and morale:
* Tunnelvision + stamina drain if shoot upon
* Close to teammates = less suppression effect.

 

[D3terioNation]

This has been posted before, but I would really love the scope system implemented. That is all.

 

[Dslyecxi]

Don't get too excited about Infiltration features showing up in Red Orchestra in the future. Ramm-Jaeger, ROdev, is of the mind that Infiltration is a horrible mod, and that RO can learn nothing from it. Apparently he believes that Infiltration has no features that are worth learning from. I very much disagree with him, of course.

It's sad to see a developer take that kind of an attitude - being closeminded in this genre, and failing to look at what other games have accomplished, is far from the best approach to take. I worry about the next game from Tripwire after seeing comments like that from one of the head people.

 

[D3terioNation]

Ooh controversial!

In all honesty the devs are probably right! They dont need to 'borrow' any feature from a modern tactical shooter. They need to be careful not to mess their concept up and send it down an undesired path!!

But the scope and grenade effect would be nice

 

[Dslyecxi]

Ooh controversial!

Controversial because of the short-sightedness, yes.

In all honesty the devs are probably right!

I wouldn't call it "devs", thus far I've only really heard Ramm spouting such things.

They dont need to 'borrow' any feature from a modern tactical shooter. They need to be careful not to mess their concept up and send it down an undesired path!!

While there are many things in Infiltration that would not apply to a WWII-era game, there are just as many that would, and flat-out saying that there's nothing to be learned from the mod is silly. It really has made me look at Tripwire in a different light - if some of the key members are unable to recognize good things in other games, well, why should I expect them to be able to really improve upon what they've done in RO so far? While RO was nice for a few weeks, and worth the cost of admission, it is not the "End all, be all" realism game as some might have you believe.

But the scope and grenade effect would be nice

That's not all... but hey, like I said, Ramm thinks there's nothing worth learning from in Infiltration.

 

[Teq]

If this is true, Im sad... Cause I think RO is a great basis for tactical realism.
I guess we cant have it all at the same time, so we have to play 10 different games each with a spesial feat to be satified...

Then, just imagine if people dropped their egoes, teamed up and created a game with the best feats from each genre!!

There might be alot of conflicting ideas and such, but if everyone agreed with optimal realism (as close to real life as possible) regarding weapon functionality, movement, and phsycs.... The best of Ravenshield, Armed assault, american army, Combatmission, Faces of war, Red orchestra etc...

Not to judge, but it seems that Devs work in rambo style, just like their games end up - Rambo style games, with lack of good teamwork.
Each man for himself.

No disrespect for all the great work... As said alot of great individual feats in RO, not done in any other games...

 

[[-project.rattus-]]

Having been an avid Inf player (from 2.75 on...), I have to put it a little bit in perspective for those who haven't played it: Allthough it was propably the most innovative FPS, it still felt awkward, unfinished and clumsy, even after the last patch, which took well over 2 years to be developed.
I don't know what modders and fans made, and how it is played now, but "out of the box" many praised features in that article simply were not part of the game, and others, while looking good on paper, felt simply as if the devs wanted to artificially cripple the players abilities.

The weapon collision for example, a thing that we never ever have seen in any other game. and boy, does this system look sexy on paper. in game though, it turned out that your gun (and your viewpoint, despite "free-aim") sticked to surfaces, and was only to be freed again by serious fiddling with the controls. On CQC maps you were literally fighting the system more than the enemy.

Also, the whole controls feel kind of remote, as if you were controlling an infantry sized mech, and not be the soldier himself.

 

[Teq]

Hm well, yes, its a chance that some systems wont work as on paper. thats true... But, couildnt the devs learn by this, and make some variation to the allready existing system?

As it comes to weapon collision, I beleive it can be frustration comming from a system where ur weapon did not collide with anything, as you felt so free in your movement and now suddently your weapon hits something as you try to turn But I think this is just a matter of getting used to the style, no?

Like in BF, you can go from prone to Sprint with no delay.
If you play Operation flashpoint after a round of BF, you feel limited on your movement.... This doesnt mean that OFP is not realistic, it means that BF2 has ****ed up your idea of reality, no?

 

[The_Countess]

[quote='[-project.rattus-]The weapon collision for example, a thing that we never ever have seen in any other game. and boy, does this system look sexy on paper. in game though, it turned out that your gun (and your viewpoint, despite "free-aim") sticked to surfaces, and was only to be freed again by serious fiddling with the controls. On CQC maps you were literally fighting the system more than the enemy.[/quote]

i dont agrea,
if your trying to do CQB with a robar (inf's long range sniper rifle which was a verry long and bulky gun) then it really got in the way yes... but the same thing would happen IRL.
if you've got a short SMG however all you have to do is be slightly carefull your gun dusnt hit the wall when you dont want it to, again just like you would IRL.
after getting use to the system i hardly ever has any trouble with it, just make sure you keep your gun away from the wall, just like you would do IRL.
overall this features didnt get in my way anywhere near as much as say RO: O's inabilaty to interrupt a action.

 

[Moz]

Don't get too excited about Infiltration features showing up in Red Orchestra in the future. Ramm-Jaeger, ROdev, is of the mind that Infiltration is a horrible mod, and that RO can learn nothing from it. Apparently he believes that Infiltration has no features that are worth learning from. I very much disagree with him, of course.

Truth.

Inf ****ed in a lot of ways, especially out of the box, but it had a lot of things (usually community added) fantastic about it. If ramm would just stop hating it because the original mod was chunky and just look at the videos.

 

[Tsoman]

I was impressed by the free aiming iron sights. I would like to see that in RO.

 

[Avenger]

A list of fancy features is neat, but it's the implementation that matters. I've never seen Ramm badmouth Infiltration, but if he did, he was probably right. From what little Infiltration I played, I thought it was the oddest hodgepodge of grand ideas and half-assed execution. It made me wonder whether the mod team even played their own game.

 

[Dslyecxi]

A list of fancy features is neat, but it's the implementation that matters. I've never seen Ramm badmouth Infiltration, but if he did, he was probably right. From what little Infiltration I played, I thought it was the oddest hodgepodge of grand ideas and half-assed execution. It made me wonder whether the mod team even played their own game.

That makes me wonder what version you played, and how long you played it. The freeaim and the weapon collision with the environment takes a bit of time to get used to, but after that, it's golden.

And yes, Ramm will badmouth it any chance he gets. Jump into IRC and say something about it, you're guaranteed to get a response.

 

[jedinstven-o crni Wuk]

Truth.

Inf ****ed in a lot of ways, especially out of the box, but it had a lot of things (usually community added) fantastic about it. If ramm would just stop hating it because the original mod was chunky and just look at the videos.

evryone has the right to have its opinion, true or not. Never played Inf. thought what i heared sounds not that bad.

*shrugs* if good or not, who cares about that since Inf is not RO:O ...

 

[Pycckuu]

The saddest part is that all these things have been suggested for over 3 years now, but never implemented. All of that stuff is years overdue imho.

 

[Teq]

I now its been posted alot of times, but I think the devs care about the community more than most other Companies.
So hopefully, if we keep posting it, maybe at some point
a) The devs open their minds and implement some of theese feats, like the smoke we just got thru..
b) Someone, like the Mare Nostrum Mod team, (which I am a part of), create some feats and mutations for it.

Hopefully we (Mare Nostrum team) will implement a few feats like mantling and looking over the sights of the MG, but we have only one coder, so things will take its time.

The point is: Plant seeds & keep watering it, and soon it will grow

 

[D3terioNation]

Hopefully we (Mare Nostrum team) will implement a few feats like mantling and looking over the sights of the MG

I thought these features were going to be in Mare Nostrum on release..?

From front page

Gameplay features will include:

• Looking over the iron sights with MGs
• Using the IS on Sniper rifles for close range shots (where applicable).
• A glint reflection off of glass scopes.
• Ability to call artillery from certain vehicles.
• The ability to cycle the bolt to eject unused bullets.
• Mantling over objects such as sandbags and fences.

...

 

[Kipper]

Is mantling actually done and working?

 

[Zell]

And the grenades in that game are incredible. When the guy threw a grenade through a window and the glass shattered, I almost cried with joy.

 

[popbob]

I just ran into this page:
http://dslyecxi.com/botg_infiltration.html

Movement and Views:
* Fluid stance and Freelook - Gradual stance and leaning
* True first person - See your own body when looking down.
* Mantling/climbing over obstacles
* Realistic prone - Shuffle around instead of spinning on a point.
* Encumbrance - If you carry heavy loads you bleed stamina quickly
* Momentum/inertia - Delay between postures (Slower getting up)


Gunnery:
* Sight adjustments - Its done for tanks, would be nice for sniper and rifles.
* Ballistics - I dont notice much bullet drop in RO... (is it there?)
* Breathing and breath holding - Right click normal IS, Hold right, Slight zoom, and hold breath for temp stable Aim.

Reload and Failures:
* Dry vs Tactical reloads, +1 reloading.
* 0.1% chance of jams for MG's and auto's.

Weapon handling:
* weapon collision - Withdraw weapon when close to walls.

Audio effects:
* 3D voicecom - Local mic sound fade with distance.
* Supersonic bullets - Correct battle sounds.

Interaction with environment:
* Penetration/destruction - Simple penetration model for wood (been discussed before .. but hehe )
* Doors and breaching - Able to destruct doors.

Gear:
* Maps/watch/compass - Commanders able to draw on map for teammates to view.

Suppression effect and morale:
* Tunnelvision + stamina drain if shoot upon
* Close to teammates = less suppression effect.

Some of these things are completely uneeded, such as the destruction (unless its just grenades shattering glass, etc.) But alot of this should be used, seriously. If TW want to make a revolution in the tactical shooter genre, then they need to implement features like this.