Allow users to select where they spawn.

[Zetsumei]

Can someone please explain, why DH spawn system is horrible? Please try to be as impartial as possible.
Skip bad designed spawns in certain maps, but discuss the system itself.

One thing I can notice is idle players. If reinforcement is 0%, then idle players are protected inside "spawn room".
Any other issues?

Generally the stated issues are:

1. Once you go through a door you generally don't have spawn protection anymore, so you can be shot the moment you teleport out of location.
2. Afk users can never be gotten once reinforcements run out (even if say minefields etc would dissapear when reinf ran out).
3. It feels a bit out of place to be in room and then teleport to somewhere else, it feels like a bit of a waste of time as well.

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But its one of the best systems a mapper can use to get selectable spawns with the current RO.

But having a built in spawn selection into the game itself can make selectable spawns more accessable to mappers, more polished for the players, and allows for proper spawnprotection.

 

[EvilTwin]

Sounds good. I do like the dh system but pick door is irrelevant and time consuming, ut spawn selection system works fine.

ot: Maybe also a feature that allows steven teleport straight into his camping puddle :I

 

[{Core}Steven]

Sounds good. I do like the dh system but pick door is irrelevant and time consuming, ut spawn selection system works fine.

ot: Maybe also a feature that allows steven teleport straight into his camping puddle :I

This would be good :|

 

[Gaston!]

Zetsumei, Xendance, I like this. It would be awesome if people were assigned a squad (though not too rigid or it can be annoying if your mates are fools) and squads could be assigned by the SL to assault/defense force A or B. Would probably help with team play, as well as letting a SL have some actual strategic influence. Especially if this was only an optional feature it could only be good.

LionbI4, I think the bad thing about DH is first and foremost that it takes away from the feel that you're actually in a battle. But I think what most people hate it for is that you don't have any real time to get behind cover when exiting spawn. You always teleport behind a shed or something but can get pinned down from an MG right away. Mostly I don't think it's considered spawn killing, since you have the choice to spawn somewhere else, but it still sucks loads.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

^ exactly.

RO definately needs a slightly organized "squad system", at least for pub play. i mean we already have squad leaders, but no squads, just a platoon of troops......and no platoon leader i'm sure it could be loose enough that it would benefit organization in pub play without being detrimental to clanplay.

i also agree that multiple spawn options would be a good thing, especially in the case of the dreaded spawn "exit" camp. it should depend of the current control status of objectives in correlation to spawn areas. you can use spawn1 or spawn2 if you have no objectives capped, but should you capture objectiveA you'd then be able to select spawn2 or spawn3.......that's why i mentioned bf1942 which was pretty similar to that.

an issue with the DH "door" system is that like gaston said, it doesn't feel realistic, but the main issue is the teleporting that takes place and the lack of sufficient spawn (exit) protection. typically the "exit" is a small shed or wall that provides you no cover whatsoever to protect a route to exit. in some cases there isn't even a wall and you just appear in the open or maybe if you're lucky in a house, which is prime for killing defenseless enemies. in pub play you don't see it all to often, but in organized play when teams are not always evenly matched, it could get way out of control. notice how no clan matches are ever played on DH maps. that's why many will say that the DH system is an improvement from RO but it still would need a lot of work.

something that would also be really interesting would be the ability for players to spawn inside vehicles, like tankers selecting an avaible tank to crew and spawning inside of it when they and the tank is spawned. also with transports should infantry need vehicles to cover distance on bigger CA maps, if spawn "groups" spawned directly in the transport (driver/mg randomly chosen) then you'd not have to deal with 1 guy running off with the halftrack and leaving everyone else behind for example. that would also eliminate the need for the "waiting on additional crewmembers" feature, limit tking in spawn and better protect spawn zones should there be bugs in the spawn protection which can still be seen in almost every stock ROOST map.

 

[213]

random spawns are overrated. selectable spawns make much more sense.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Just mentioning again that in DH, if you teleport to a spot where you are almost immediately under fire, that is not exactly a DH problem but one of map design. The maps can be made so that absolutely doesn't happen (just move the teleport area further back enough behind cover and use some protection so the enemy doesn't sneak up). Perhaps they made them that way because they were afraid they would lose some impatient players who didn't like running into battle? I don't exactly know.

 

[Zetsumei]

My personal thought why i think no clanmatches are played on DH is because the maps are primarily too big for 8v8. For 50 player games i feel that DH gives one of the best experiences in RO though.

If the squadleader selects spawn is being used, beside being assigned to a squad initially i think everybody should be able to leave/join a squad with say 2-6 squads being available per side. People generally say the bf2 model works for squad creation although i don't know how squad creation exactly works there. If if someone can tell how it works there that would be nice.

The smallest realistic squad size according to wikipedia was 4 people (up to around 16 people), especially in games where communication and teamwork is a bit harder smaller squads can help tremendously. (logically you wouldn't have someone that can call arty and throw smoke in every squad, the current squadleader should become something like a platoon leader, and the actual leaders of the squads should be regular soldiers but with a temporarily squadleader rank to not have too much smoke flying around)

 

[Nimsky]

I support the idea of optional vehicle respawns, like in a truck or APC for example. Kinda like in ArmA 2 where players can drive a Mobile Spawn HQ (MHQ) to the frontline, park it, and then players can spawn there. If something similar was put in RO, it would also add new strategies because it would require a driver and the MHQ would have to be protected. And if your team destroys the MHQ of the other team, that would give you a serious advantage. Because RO is much smaller scale than ArmA, perhaps the MHQ should not be very easy to destroy. I'm not saying it should be exactly like ArmA 2's MHQ, but something like that would definitely add more dynamic gameplay. Maybe only one the bigger maps though.

It's things like that, that add new strategies to RO, I would like to see in RO:HOS.

 

[Zetsumei]

I wouldnt mind vehicle spawns myself in ww2 online it worked quite well. But i think that in the short smaller maps of RO perhaps vehicular spawns might not work ideally so atleast a directly copy of just spawning in a vehicle wouldnt work, there should be more to it then.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

yet Moe is right....the DH teleport system isn't really the issue but that most of the individual maps that employed it were poorly designed (not ALL maps, just most of them). and yes, it seems to me like they decided on some maps to use the teleporting to allow for quicker deployment to battle for those players out there with ADD.

zets you really should try out the original bf1942 and the bf2. there's some really interesting features in those games that could work well with RO. i always thought that if you tried to compare RO to another ww2 fps game, bf was probably the closest fit.

i'd love to see HOS take some of these features and improve upon them even more to create even better, revolutionary gameplay.

 

[Gaston!]

I wouldn't mind vehicle respawn like bswearer suggested, but I don't like the idea of mobile HQs. First off, spawning in a halftrack allows people to get out and huff it instead of instantly being placed in the line of fire. Also, it seems to be much more realistic to drive a HT from the edge of map with people in it to the battle rather than just teleporting to an HQ somewhere in the middle of the map. Or at least that what it looked like what you were saying happened in ArmA, I've never played it myself. But overall, vehicle respawn, or sector respawn, I don't think that people should pick it for themselves. I'd rather have it done by squad leaders, but that's just me.
As for squads. I think it all depends on how they're implemented. Some games do them, like Insurgency, and I find it's just annoying, but it sounds like there are other games out there that do them pretty well. So I'd say as long as they're streamlined in a way that doesn't inhibit the players freedom I'd be down for it. Also something where you pick your weapon first and then get a list of squads that need it or just get assigned to a squad would be nice. I'm tired of games (Insurgency) where you have to cycle through every different squad looking to see what weapons are available.

 

[Zetsumei]

Personally i feel as well that weaponselection should be side based and not squad based. Even if squad based might be more realistic, its much more fun to vary in how squads are equipped in gameplay.

Like perhaps getting a squad that ends up focussing around long range fighting and one for short range room fighting. etc.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

would be interesting to allow to form particular squads, say a rifle squad, a support squad, an assualt squad, and perhaps specialists like snipers, engineers, artillery spotters etc.... and NCOs to be attached to a certain squad.

typically a squad consists of 4 privates and a squad leader (corporal or maybe low ranking sarge), at least the way it was in the US military during WWII. then in addition for a platoon you'd have your specialists high ranking NCOs and low ranking COs. i'd go research the formations of german and soviet squads/platoons but i bet somebody here would know more.

with quality squad formation and distribution, and the ability to have multiple spawn locations, coordination in public matches would really benefit.

 

[Flogger23m]

I think it should stay the same. Otherwise it seems like it would cater to those who want to run off and do their own thing.

Either that, or if we have squads (INS or BF2), then you spawn with them.

 

[Gaston!]

I do know that the Germans changed their traditional squad based tactics for the Stalingrad battle. So if TWI chooses to implement that then I'm sure they'll do their research on that and form the squads realistically.

 

[Nimsky]

I wouldn't mind vehicle respawn like bswearer suggested, but I don't like the idea of mobile HQs. First off, spawning in a halftrack allows people to get out and huff it instead of instantly being placed in the line of fire.

If the players park the MHQ (can be a truck or an APC) at a safe location, that wouldn't really be a problem.

Also, it seems to be much more realistic to drive a HT from the edge of map with people in it to the battle rather than just teleporting to an HQ somewhere in the middle of the map.

Maybe so, but that would require a dedicated driver, and I don't think that many players would want to drive up and down between the spawn area and the frontline for an entire round. Not in RO at least, I see it happen regularly in ArmA 2 though (helicopters). The transport vehicle could also be driven by AI, but how would the AI know where it's safe to park?

Sure, maybe teleporting isn't the most realistic solution, but I think it could work. The main reason why I suggested it is that it would add more strategy and randomness to the game. Instead of always spawning in the same predictable areas, players would never know for sure where the enemy team might spawn. And if they do find out, then they can try and destroy the enemy MHQ, etc.

I realize that it can be easily exploited though. You only need one jackass to park the MHQ on the bottom of a river.

It seems that no matter which respawn system we're talking about, they all have their advantages and disadvantages.

A squad system would be nice, too. Maybe even allow players to form squads themselves?

 

[Zetsumei]

Personally i feel that based on the map and playeramounts there should be a max amount of squads per side but players would be free to leave and join any squad they prefer. (a limited amount of squads because otherwise you could end up with every single person creating a 1 man squad which would be bad if the SL would have any form of privileges, like for instance ability to select where to spawn).

Like there being a limit of say 4 squads then every player can select to join squad 1,2,3 or 4. And within a squad being allowed to vote for the squadleader.

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Mobile spawns could work (for some maps) but i would prefer them to be something a bit more bothersome than a vehicle as in RO maps are quite small. Perhaps it would be better to carry something like a radio and being able to plant that somewhere making that location a mobile spawn. That forces someone to walk on foot and perhaps at a reduced speed due to the weight. (perhaps make it something that needs 2 people to carry so you need teamwork to use it effectively)

If there are mobile spawns they should be easy to destroy and quite annoying to setup somewhere. So people don't just deploy it somewhere on the edge of the action but will try to place it somewhere a bit out of the action where it stays safe.

Personally i think i do however still prefer non mobile spawns as it slightly gives the mapper more of an ability to dictate the flow of the map. Like balancing the time it takes to get to an objective or something. If people can already spawn at the far left, right or middle so you can easier attack the flanks and surprise the enemy im happy already.

 

[Idiot]

This idea will encourage noobs to spawn where the action is rather than complete the actual objective. I vote no.

 

[Zetsumei]

Generally if things are correct the action should be at the objectives, so if new players go where the action is they should go to the place where the objectives are. The motivation why players want to capture a capzone shouldn't change either.

If a map does have multiple spawns then they should be carefully selected by the mapper just like spawns are selected now (and they could all be quite far away from the action if preferred by the mapper).