Add Spawn on SL to Classic

  • Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

utek

Active member
Aug 20, 2010
694
99
28
Slovenia
No! ;)
For a more important SL I would prefer

- +1 Kill assist point for a good arty marker.
- And the choice between rifle and SMG for SLs in Classic
+1
and maybe we could test the SMG for SL part on some Beta server to see if this would cause some gameplay balance problems for Classic mode.
but i think not,because we dont have zoom...
maybe the only problem would be : noobs taking the SL class just for the smg:rolleyes:
 

schepp himself

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 8, 2012
90
2
0
No thanks. Soldiers appearing out of nowhere is a big immersion breaker. I like how you have to get back into the fight from the back if you die.

But I agree with you that squad play is sadly not that common in this game.

Greets
Schepp himself
 

atomyc

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 29, 2012
76
0
0
33
Spain
Please, no magic teleportation on classic.

When I see a squad leader prone on a hole, not engaging any enemy, missing all the action around for 20 minutes... I just think, how the hell are you having any fun man?
 

Floyd

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 19, 2006
4,313
725
0
Waterproof
www.ro50pc.net
Enemy soldiers don't just magically appear out of nowhere. At least I've never seen them. Now, I've seen my own squad mates appear, but I'm always behind cover.

Squad teamwork is what you make of it. Dahn made a really informative and precise post of all the nuances of the squad system. I think ignorance of it by the SL's themselves is largely to blame. I know it shouldn't have to be done, but imo, if enough knowledgeable SL's would constructively inform the individual fireteams of their squad how they could best support their squad, I think the squad system could be very effective. This would be especially true on the larger, more intricate custom maps and on a server running classic runspeed/stamina settings. And especially so with no spawn on SL.
 

jalex3

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 21, 2009
1,639
273
0
Australia
no "spawn on sl" in any mode!

"I don't like it so no one can have it!"


I like LugNut also like classic with spawn on SL.
This is why I only play on a custom classic server with it enabled.
I enjoy the easier team/squad work it enables on pub servers.

That said forcing it on others is a bit rude.
 

Randy Newman

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 1, 2012
214
7
0
A big no here. OP forgot the biggest downsides of spawn on SL: it's unrealistic, breaks immersion, it's a teleporter in WWII.
I have to wonder, are you one of the "attacking is extremely hard in real life, so it should be extremely hard in game too" people?

Do you like to see the defenders win every round?

Spawning on SL helps the assaulting team a lot. Currently, when I play classic, defenders win the map 80% of the time. That really drives me away from the mode...and I've been playing RO since the mod days...

RO2 maps just need spawn on SL to be feasible for the attacking teams.
 

VietViking

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 25, 2012
352
1
0
Toronto, Ontario
I have to wonder, are you one of the "attacking is extremely hard in real life, so it should be extremely hard in game too" people?

Do you like to see the defenders win every round?

Spawning on SL helps the assaulting team a lot. Currently, when I play classic, defenders win the map 80% of the time. That really drives me away from the mode...and I've been playing RO since the mod days...

RO2 maps just need spawn on SL to be feasible for the attacking teams.

Well to be fair, RO:Ost, DH don't have any problems at all for attackers, and those games don't have spawn on SL. It's just that these RO2 maps are not balanced without spawn on SL in mind.
 

Nikita

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 5, 2011
1,874
606
0
I have to wonder, are you one of the "attacking is extremely hard in real life, so it should be extremely hard in game too" people?

Do you like to see the defenders win every round?

Spawning on SL helps the assaulting team a lot. Currently, when I play classic, defenders win the map 80% of the time. That really drives me away from the mode...and I've been playing RO since the mod days...

RO2 maps just need spawn on SL to be feasible for the attacking teams.

Don't know what kind of Classic you're playing. Red October actually is somewhat of an even fight in Classic, since the German run from spawn back to the front takes a reasonable amount of time. Spawn on SL cuts both ways--defenders can use it too, and to better effect.

Defense-offense balance can be addressed three other ways too--reinforcements, spawn distances, and spawn timers. Maps can also include imperfections in a defensive line, such as the crashed planes on Mamayev, to give attackers cover.
 

Proud_God

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 22, 2005
3,235
548
0
Belgium
I have to wonder, are you one of the "attacking is extremely hard in real life, so it should be extremely hard in game too" people?

Do you like to see the defenders win every round?

Spawning on SL helps the assaulting team a lot. Currently, when I play classic, defenders win the map 80% of the time. That really drives me away from the mode...and I've been playing RO since the mod days...

RO2 maps just need spawn on SL to be feasible for the attacking teams.

If balance is broken by lack of spawn on SL on some maps (if), that in it self does not make the feature likeable, now does it? Like mentioned above, there are a lot of balancing tools available.

That being said, I am for different parameters per map for Realism and Classic, for example, Classic: respawn time of defenders +10%.
 
Last edited:

Westernesse

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 11, 2011
406
68
0
Defense-offense balance can be addressed three other ways too--reinforcements, spawn distances, and spawn timers. Maps can also include imperfections in a defensive line, such as the crashed planes on Mamayev, to give attackers cover.

I was going to post this pretty much.


Since classic players want to discourage reckless gameplay and players dying a lot it seems reasonable that the defensive team should get a +x second increase to their respawn timer for every player that dies, before a respawn. This seems reasonable since attackers are often running an extra 30 seconds because of no SL spawn/stamina/run speed differences, so making a larger group of dead defender players wait 10-15 seconds extra is equally some of that. I'd say X should prob be like 3 seconds for smaller games (say 10v10) and then be about 2 seconds for 20v20 or higher. Still its a mechanic that the defenders can mitigate some with good team gameplay (not dying all at once together) vs just being a flat increase to spawn time. All added time for deaths would be immediately subtracted if the attackers cap a point, so it wouldn't be possible to use this mechanic to cap a point then take the next one when its undefended.

Another side effective is a much higher penalty for death and an increased fear of death when you see other players dying around you. I'd actually like a mechanic like this in realism too.
 

Randy Newman

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 1, 2012
214
7
0
That being said, I am for different parameters per map for Realism and Classic, for example, Classic: respawn time of defenders +10%.
That is the most reasonable thing you've ever said.

Different parameters are whats needed in classic. Can this be done server side?
 

LugNut

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 12, 2011
2,288
117
0
I don't think the lack of Spawn on SL would change the balance much since both sides would have it. It can slightly as it's set up now, since it allows players to spawn out in the open. I think attacking SL's are less likely to be in a protected space resulting in more squadmates being mowed down.

As I stated earlier, if it was more limited in where it was available, it'd be less effective as simply a forward spawn point and more as a way to gather your squad. If you couldn't use it unless you were in hard cover and more than say 80 - 100m from a cap, you wouldn't see enemy spawning behind you, or right in front of the cap. Either side could use it both to increase squad effectiveness or for strategic reasons. You could use it to build a force to push a flank or unexpected area. SL's would then have an additional choice to make, get a squad together for a coordinated attack, or try to get in the cap themselves. Or first one, and then other. With limitations, it wouldn't be used as haphazardly as it is now, but with a more logical effect.

You could argue that it's not needed, that SL's could do the same today by calling out to their squad, "meet me behind the tank in G6 and we'll attack the barn". Anyone who's spent anytime on a public server would know that with the pace of the game (get in the cap!!!), the difficulty of locating squadmates in Classic and the slower movement speed, it's unlikely anyone would spawn, and then trot across the map hoping to find their SL. It needs to be easy for players to buy in.

I also like the fact that it allows spawns to change, do you really want to always know exactly where the enemy is spawning? Have you ever played a game where you don't? Except out in front of you somewhere? It's far more tense and allow maps to play out slightly differently. By now, everyone knows which caps to attack first on each map which is based on where you can spawn, I'd like to see things mixed up a bit. Even Winterwald the most open map; A first, then B. Each and every time.....

It would also allow spawns to move out from under arty, (yeah it happens) and away from oppressive fire. (Spawnraping is less common in RO2, but it does happen) Anyone ever been on the wrong side of an asskicking in Kessel or Grain Elevator?

I try to look for unexplored potential in existing features and find solutions when they are less than optimal.

I believe the main reason that maps are defender biased in Classic is the difference in movement speed and stamina. In Realism, attackers can obviously cover more ground faster, but are also harder to hit since they can zigzag liked crazed squirrels out in the open. Add that sprint to IS is also available and they are better equipped to assault than they are in Classic.
 
Last edited:

Proud_God

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 22, 2005
3,235
548
0
Belgium
Allow me to present to you all an idea for an alternative to spawn on SL from way back:

When dying in close proximity to your SL, you spawn X seconds faster (normal spawn locations!). No magic teleporting, it's all good. Plus, there's an incentive to stay with your SL, instead of spawn -> run off.
 
Last edited:

Westernesse

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 11, 2011
406
68
0
Allow me to present to you all an idea for an alternative to spawn on SL from way back:

When dying in close proximity to your SL, you spawn X seconds faster (normal spawn locations!). No magic teleporting, it's all good. Plus, there's an incentive to stay with your SL, instead of spawn -> run off.

A good idea, although your SL corpse should count as your SL if he is dead until he respawns (maybe a corpses instead of live SL respawns you 1 second slower). Otherwise, SL are going down first, every time.

If your not going to run SL spawn and implement the above idea so that your spawn waves are variable instead of as one unit now, then another good idea would be faster respawn for deaths in a cap zone.