Accuracy, Stamina and Iron Sights

[howzcat]

well, john has already stated that constructive criticism is welcome, and even if twi doesn't really listen, maybe some modders will..

almost everything has been said about the (somewhat) arcady design decisions in RO2 and how to fix it. This is just my 2 cents.

-Accuracy: as it stands, nothing, and i mean nothing, affects your (superhuman) accuracy. You can be shot 2 or 3 times, spin around, very accurately kill your attacker then (near instantly) heal. This should not work this way. I'm obviously no expert, but being shot should have (at least in the near moment it happens) a DRAMATIC effect on accuracy.

-Stamina: this is the main point for me. Stamina having no effect whatsoever in your ability to shoot is what makes this game so arcady run and gun. This post is all about opinion (feel free to bash me, my family, etc etc) but everyone who disputes this point is just defending his arcade type of play.
As it stands, no one uses cover, prone, cuts the pie etc..Assault can do everything (win all CQC, snipe at 100+ meters - which is the engagement range in Stalingrad).
I propose there should be a longer time entering iron sights, and most important, stamina be linked with accuracy. For instance, when aiming down the iron sights, while having your weapon unrested in any surface, the stamina would slowly drain, which in turn would make your aim sway a bit more. Nothing absurd mind you. This would have various effects. Assault would no longer run around willy nilly, as it would take a bit longer to properly aim (especially if tired). Using the sprint key would be made more a tactical choice instead of "why aren't you sprinting all the time?!". Rifleman would no longer be able to just camp (without resting their weapon) for ever with perfect aim - which would lead to people having a bit more realistic behavior (using cover system, using the environment to help steady their aim).

This seems to me to be a very commom sense move. A quick search says that k98 is 3.2kg, ppsh 41 (with the OP 71 drum magazine) is 5,45kg!!

My favorite game still, pre-ordered etc etc. Got a bunch of my friends to buy it (2 of them hate me for it lol). Last week a friend of mine (who plays mw almost exclusively) said "i was gonna buy it..but it's so arcady..for that kinda of gameplay i'll stick to mw or bf"..enough said really..

tl;dr

link sway to stamina, making stamina slowly drop over time when aiming down iron sights with the weapon not being supported, and making the weapon sway more the less stamina you have. longer delay when entering iron sights. greatly diminished accuracy AT LEAST a couple of seconds after being shot.

STOP THE RUN AND GUN MADNESS! loll

/flameretardantsuitequipped

 

[Nazarov]

SDK's not out yet and this thread would most likely be buried by the time it does come out.
Nice suggestions though you may need to reassert it later on.

 

[Kleist]

You forgot the mega-zoom

PPsh41 with 71 shot drum is ok, it

 

[PermenentMarker]

I agree with everything besides the zoom that is really more an implementation of your eye focusing on a target... it's better then pixel hunting when irl you would see the target even better then the so called zoom. Hell even the realistic arma series have it.

Perhaps it would be nice to blur a little more all the edges of the screen for a more realistic feel of it ?

 

[Nazarov]

I agree with everything besides the zoom that is really more an implementation of your eye focusing on a target... it's better then pixel hunting when irl you would see the target even better then the so called zoom. Hell even the realistic arma series have it.

Perhaps it would be nice to blur a little more all the edges of the screen for a more realistic feel of it ?

I would rather have a client side option to disable it to please both sides.
I will turn it off at the cost of disadvantage.
I had no trouble hunting pixels in RO1

 

[luciferintears]

i agree 100%

The lack of inertia, stamina effects, wound effects, speed of bring up the iron sights etc are what kills this game. adding those in will have us see a DRAMATIC increase in tactical play.

One of the things that enrages me is the lack of effect bullets have on your target. Getting shot, should:

1. interrupt your sprint
2. slow you down for a split second
3. sharply jerk your screen/gun in some direction.

that way, you wont blast the guy with a k98 and watch him continue sprinting full speed. Or when you shoot him in the chest, he brings up his iron sights and pumps you full of lead. getting shot should throw off your aim with a sharp snap.

 

[Kleist]

The Zoom is to extrem.
You have the first zoom when you using the iron sight, that

 

[Yurizle]

Holding breath should drain your stamina aswell and yes to above poster. I also dislike the idea of double zooming.

 

[Westernesse]

I would rather have a client side option to disable it to please both sides.
I will turn it off at the cost of disadvantage.
I had no trouble hunting pixels in RO1

Don't hit Shift in iron sight? It's not disabled client side

Personally, the zoom seems to be one of the more realistic aspects to me. I also like the holding your breath zoom as it makes RO2 different from a lot of other fps (never played the arma series). I'd be fine or maybe even happy with it draining stamina though. I'll also point out that the zoom is really a disadvantage for me since I play at 3240x1920 and the hold your breath zoom does almost nothing vs when I play with just one monitor at 1920x1080 and its amazing. My rig gives me more pixels to be a pixel hunter, but also makes me pay for it with lost fps.

Personally, I'd like to see realism/hyper realism mode where you start with a much larger stamina bar, but a lot of stuff like iron sighting, sprinting, holding your breath would drain it and there is massive penalties for hitting rock bottom, so that your goal is to keep it somewhat, if not entirely full most of the time, yet you could still sprint between objectives without running out. It's realistic right now when I run between A and C on commissioners house for me to be winded halfway there and stop running while under fire! Which actually brings me to my second idea that near misses/minor wounds on you should actually boost your stamina some at least the first time to simulate the adrenaline rush and fight or flight response.

Edit: Updated second paragraph (zoom) in response to Nazarov.

 

[Nazarov]

Don't hit Shift in iron sight? It's not disabled client side

Personally, the zoom seems to be one of the more realistic aspects to me. I also like it as it makes RO2 different from a lot of other fps. I'd be fine or maybe even happy with it draining stamina though.

Hmm are you saying zoom makes RO2 different from a lot of other fps?
Or you mean lack of zoom in RO1 makes it different from a lot of other fps?

 

[howzcat]

that way, you wont blast the guy with a k98 and watch him continue sprinting full speed. Or when you shoot him in the chest, he brings up his iron sights and pumps you full of lead. getting shot should throw off your aim with a sharp snap.

so true! that is the single most aggravating thing about this game and it makes me insane...i mean it, insane!!

most than half the times i get killed i think to myself "he shouldn't have been able to shoot back..i even caught him on his back!" what's the point, really? just get a sub machinegun (don't get me started on mkb..), tape the shift key down and effortlessly top every scoreboard.

p.s. not to be a stick in the mud, but i've seen twi employees commenting on the forum (even closing threeads and whatnot) but i still haven't seen a single one of them commenting on these type of matters..even though it's pretty clear MANY (not all, mind that) people in the community are simply bothered with it.

bottom line, do the wishes of the people who will stick to the game for years count for anything, or now that you have our money you'll pull an activision on us? i for one would very much like an answer to this, as it will probably influence my buying (or not) some other product from twi.

 

[Rabid Penguin]

-Accuracy: as it stands, nothing, and i mean nothing, affects your (superhuman) accuracy. You can be shot 2 or 3 times, spin around, very accurately kill your attacker then (near instantly) heal. This should not work this way. I'm obviously no expert, but being shot should have (at least in the near moment it happens) a DRAMATIC effect on accuracy.

Well maybe I just suck, but I definitely haven't had any "problems" with superhuman accuracy... I can barely hit anything at any range. Just can't get those dang sights to go where i want them...

 

[howzcat]

Well maybe I just suck, but I definitely haven't had any "problems" with superhuman accuracy... I can barely hit anything at any range. Just can't get those dang sights to go where i want them...

i see you're from australia..maybe pings? otherwise just get checked for parkinson's lol joke

 

[Rabid Penguin]

Lol, but I'm playing on Aussie servers with pings of ~50-100, so shouldn't be too much of a problem.

 

[Manbearpig]

COngrats OP on making thread number 153 about this topic! Really useful ty. On top of that your topic is so important that it doesn't matter at all that other more useful threads get pushed of the forum front page.


ps Why don't admins move all these infinite reposts to suggestions? Plz God rid the forums of the same topics being recreated ad nauseam.

 

[PrivateBurke]

This seems to me to be a very commom sense move. A quick search says that k98 is 3.2kg, ppsh 41 (with the OP 71 drum magazine) is 5,45kg!!

If you have experience with real firearms you would know that heavier weapons are actually easier to steady when firing.

I hope OP didn't mean Over Powered 71 drum magazine, because you should really open a book and see that most solider used the drum mag on the ppsh 41.

I'm also getting real concerned about the health of the people complaining about it not being realistic to sprint then not be too exhausted to hold a rifle steady.

This weekend perhaps you should go out with a 2x4 or something and run around for a bit then notice that the 2x4 placed on your shoulder and being held by both hands isn't some uncontrollable beast. With three points of contact on the body a rifle was designed and marketed as the original point and click interface.

 

[howzcat]

@ PrivateBurke

i said it's overpowered, like all autos are due to the fact you can sprint full speed, stop, get on iron sight (who don't sway at all) in a blink of an eye. Add to that 71 rounds firepower, and you're golden.

As for the weight of the weapon well, maybe i'm just getting old but..it seems to me that you can't just hold your weapon, unrested, in iron sights for long before you get tired and sway, even if just slightly - especially after successive sprints. Even the adrenaline should be so high you'd sway - unless you're a robot. I play paintball and man..i get tired real quick..maybe quit smoking! but then again, i'm guessing every soldier in ww2 smoked, and if they can still do all that portrayed in RO2, i wanna know which brand it is! lol

 

[PrivateBurke]

@ PrivateBurke

i said it's overpowered, like all autos are due to the fact you can sprint full speed, stop, get on iron sight (who don't sway at all) in a blink of an eye. Add to that 71 rounds firepower, and you're golden.

As for the weight of the weapon well, maybe i'm just getting old but..it seems to me that you can't just hold your weapon, unrested, in iron sights for long before you get tired and sway, even if just slightly - especially after successive sprints. Even the adrenaline should be so high you'd sway - unless you're a robot. I play paintball and man..i get tired real quick..maybe quit smoking! but then again, i'm guessing every soldier in ww2 smoked, and if they can still do all that portrayed in RO2, i wanna know which brand it is! lol

Lucky strikes my man. Those and jeeps took the Americans into the Rhine.

 

[Mekhazzio]

I'm also getting real concerned about the health of the people complaining about it not being realistic to sprint then not be too exhausted to hold a rifle steady.

Especially when you take into account what the game considers "sprinting". It's 5 meters / second for 15 seconds. To put it in perspective, running a 6 minute mile is 4.5 m/s for 360 seconds, and that's a task that isn't very strenuous for a moderately fit person. A "sprint" in RO2 is a very brief mild jog.

 

[Esh325]

Either I just suck or the game is excruciately frustrating and not fun to play. I've been playing since Ostfront and I never remember Ostfront being this frustrating or unforgiving. They need to do something to cut back on the constant death. I find myself more often getting killed by stray bullets then ever. I think your stamina should defenetely effect your accuracy. I never want to take a shot in real life when I'm out of breathe. And how quickly you can bandage yourself up is just ridiculous. I think the reason death is so common in HOS is because they removed all the handicaps. In Ostfront, you couldn't take an accurate shot with a bolt action unless you were rested. You would get fatigued a lot more easily in Ostfront, not necesarily realistic though. The reloading times were a lot more realistic in Ostfront. So they took away all those handicaps in HOS and now you have more death and more frustration.