Accuracy needs to be reduced on ALL the weapons ingame

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Pip-boy

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 16, 2011
40
6
0
No. I am just not forcing my perspective upon yours.
You misunderstood me. That was a humorous attempt at saying you understood me correctly, or that was in agreement with you.

Moders will do that for TWI.
Then I sure hope it's the people that did Darkest Hour.

All your struggle with Josef Nader and his with you was pointless.
Not that I want to waste your or my time on this, but he accused me of being ignorant and not presenting any information, which I did, and he dismissed it. But that chapter is closed.

I have a close friend who owns a couple of G43s and some SVT40's, and the G43's are solid 1.5 to 2 MOA rifles (iron sights), whilst the SVT40's shoot roughly 2.5 to 3 MOA groups (some are as bad as 4-5 MOA, but I blame that on the condition of those particular rifles)
Well the more accurate and true to life figures the marrier.


Thank you Unus for this picture, this will help us even more to get to the meat of the matter.

So assuming the worst case scenario, the SVT with 3 MOA spread should stop having 100% hit pobability at around 200m range IF it is aimed square in the middle of the head.
If however it is aimed at the very top of the head we should have less than 50% given that the head is round.
At 400m like the picture Holy.Death provided the only pratical area to shoot at would have to be the torso.

A thing we barely touched upon is also kinetic energy. I can remember a custom mod for RO tanks that had an elaborate damage calculator that took velocity and damage at that velocity into account. A good thing to ask TWI if they included that. Obviously for rifles the difference would be marginal as far as lethality goes, but for SMGs that should be a game-changer.
 

Pip-boy

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 16, 2011
40
6
0
Answer to this question(s) is like answering all answers that ever has been asked about long range combat in Red Orchestra 2, it's universal Accuracy's Holy Grail. And I am not joking.

I think I missed that one. Could you explain this?
 

Unus Offa Unus Nex

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 21, 2010
1,809
525
0


Thank you Unus for this picture, this will help us even more to get to the meat of the matter.

So assuming the worst case scenario, the SVT with 3 MOA spread should stop having 100% hit pobability at around 200m range IF it is aimed square in the middle of the head.
If however it is aimed at the very top of the head we should have less than 50% given that the head is round.
At 400m like the picture Holy.Death provided the only pratical area to shoot at would have to be the torso.

I must point out that there is one slight inaccuracy about the picture though, the big stippled circle is infact 3.5 MOA in size, and not 3 MOA.

A thing we barely touched upon is also kinetic energy. I can remember a custom mod for RO tanks that had an elaborate damage calculator that took velocity and damage at that velocity into account. A good thing to ask TWI if they included that. Obviously for rifles the difference would be marginal as far as lethality goes, but for SMGs that should be a game-changer.

I think it is, seeing as they've said that the ingame penetration system uses projectile speed and thickness & type of material to calculate wether the projectile will pass through or not, and what velocity it will have immediately after penetrating.
 
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Holy.Death

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 17, 2011
1,427
91
0
Pip-boy said:
You misunderstood me. That was a humorous attempt at saying you understood me correctly, or that was in agreement with you.
I see. It's not your fault. Blame lies with me. For some reason irony, sarcasm or any humorous attempts are bouncing off me. I get it live when I can read other person's voice, facial expression and mime.

By the way, what I did say is true. It's not simple agreement with you or understanding each other. I don't force my perspective upon yours so we don't battle each other who is right and we can focus on getting to the truth. We both can "agree" that gravity doesn't exist, but that won't make it any more true. No matter what we two can possibly think of it. Because our view on truth as human beings is irrelevant in comparision to the truth. It's like saying the Earth is flat. I don't aim to agree with you. I aim to see the truth. There is a difference in that.

Pip-boy said:
At 400m like the picture Holy.Death provided the only pratical area to shoot at would have to be the torso.
Just for the record - that was unscoped Mosin. What will happen when you add scope on top of it? It's hard to see target with iron sights, but shouldn't it be easier to aim with scope?

Pip-boy said:
I think I missed that one. Could you explain this?
Holy Grail is a sacred object. Something we want to obtain, because it's a wonder in itself. People here want to obtain realism in this game. Or get as close to it as possible.

Did you ever wonder why there are so many topics about realism where people who knows guns (often Red Orchestra 1 veterans too) fight each other? Because people don't ask questions. They think "4" and make equalization later to support their point of view. And they are convinced to know the ultimate answer (said "4").

We, here, today, did it different way. We made equalization first and got to "4". It confirmed my thoughts. You both (both sides of these forums) want the same thing, but think that the other side want it different. People who like game as it is now don't want to make it COD or Red Orchestra 1 - artificially too hard to not be able to shoot target they should hit in real life. As we both find out - firing range is fine, they have nothing to fear from people who want more realism and challenge. I think they can only gain, because this will add more depth into the game that already feels great.

We answered Ultimate Question aka Holy Grail of long range combat that plagued these forums very much. Now you see focus point - how much long range combat should become less effective/robotic. Not enough to compromise real possibility of soldiers at that time to hit/kill targets at certain distances, but enough to make shots harder when target is further away. Both sides want realism. They just want it's other parts that doesn't exclude each other.
 
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Velico

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 15, 2011
24
19
0
By the way, what I did say is true. It's not simple agreement with you or understanding each other. I don't force my perspective upon yours so we don't battle each other who is right and we can focus on getting to the truth. We both can "agree" that gravity doesn't exist, but that won't make it any more true. No matter what we two can possibly think of it. Because our view on truth as human beings is irrelevant in comparision to the truth. It's like saying the Earth is flat. I don't aim to agree with you. I aim to see the truth. There is a difference in that.

This guy gets the difference between discussion and debate. +1 for you sir. So much of why I avoid forums is because there is no real opportunity to have discussion, it generally devolves into pissing contests on who has the bigger ego. I like that you are willing to hear out the other side of the perspective, and try to come to an agreement with the parties involved. Very Platonic of you.
 

CaptHawkeye

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 23, 2009
131
93
0
You can't aim a machine gun if it's not supported. An SMG you can.

And if the range is so close that spray n pray is all that matters then guess what? It doesn't matter what kind of automatic you have.
 
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palco

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 17, 2011
123
72
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Who wouldn't if encountered by selectively stupid, deliberate illogical troll bastards.

You'll get the similar feeling when dealing with stupid/ incompetent C/S personnel.

You don't have to defend them. What I meant by comment count is +900 and still going strong something like that when normal ppl with heavy count goes 300 or something.
 
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palco

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 17, 2011
123
72
0
Repositioning facial structure w/o repercussion sounds so good, though far cry.

Who really don't want to punch the troll in the face from time to time honestly?
They are basically fing asking for it.

Who like cheaters and deliberate trolls unless they are one of them?
 
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Josef Nader

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 31, 2011
1,713
1,165
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Who wouldn't if encountered by selectively stupid, deliberate illogical troll bastards.

You'll get the similar feeling when dealing with stupid/ incompetent C/S personnel.

You don't have to defend them. What I meant by comment count is +900 and still going strong something like that when normal ppl with heavy count goes 300 or something.

Or, you know, I have a lot of spare time in between classes where I don't have anything better to do beyond constructing elaborate arguments.

Just because you don't like what I'm saying doesn't mean that I'm a troll, mate. I do my best to avoid as many fallacies as I can, and in a serious, respectful argument I can do quite well. However, many of the discussions on this board have flown way past the point where they're productive and have dissolved into hissy fits between folks that want things changed and folks that want things to stay the same. I'm a vocal advocate of things staying just the way they are. It doesn't mean I'm a troll.
 

[TORO]Patosentado

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 15, 2011
175
32
0
Spain
The cartridges fired by the bolts and MGs in this game (7.62x54R and 7.92x57) are nowadays sniper cartridges (Dragunov/SV98 in the first case) and more powerful than a modern 300WIN in the second case, so that is accurate about 800m...
 

Mike 78

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 14, 2011
184
202
0
They only made MG fire realisticaly but they forgot to make every other weapon handeling realistic. That's why MG's are generally avoided by players.

The unrealistic shooting mechanics made this the 1st game on which I spend less time playing it then checking the forums to see if they fixed it.

I miss RO1/DH and I can't even properly play those anymore because servers are not filled like they used to be. In a way I whish RO2 hadn't even come out but now that I've played it it just seems silly to return to DH eventhough it's so much more fun/real.It just looks super outdated after playing RO2 eventhough the only 2 things I see as improved in RO2 over RO1 are the graphics and the sound. The rest of the new features and handeling just killed the fun we know from RO/DH.

TW better get their **** together and fix this game but to be honest, I've given up on TW since they haven't been able to produce a decent patch up until now nor have they responded to all the complaints about the gunhandeling/distribution. Maybe if they ever put out a sdk the modders will fix the game but this will be a matter of years and I'm sure something better wil have come out by then if BF 3 isnt that allready. I also checked the Rising Storm forums and they seem to stick with kissing TW's *** in stating that there's nothing wrong with the shooting mechanics. So not much hope for that mod either.

I've been playing online competitive FPS since the Doom day1 like 15 years ago and I've never seen such a potentialy perfect game being messed up like this. It's so obvious TW intended to please the casual masses, expecting to gain 1000's of new fans among the run n gun kiddies while at the same time betraying/ignoring the oldschool fans like me because would only be a small group of the comunity. Well guess what, TW was wrong and they will have to start apealing to the old school RO gamers if they want to save this game if it isn't allready too late for that. Then again, they stated that RO2 has been a huge succes for them businesswise so maybe their goal is allready accomplished, to make money by misleading loyal customers. Thanks for RO1 TW but no thanks for this crap you delivered. If I were you I'd be very ashamed.
 

Rrralphster

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 4, 2006
1,411
106
0
48
Nederland
They only made MG fire realisticaly but they forgot to make every other weapon handeling realistic. That's why MG's are generally avoided by players.

The unrealistic shooting mechanics made this the 1st game on which I spend less time playing it then checking the forums to see if they fixed it.

I miss RO1/DH and I can't even properly play those anymore because servers are not filled like they used to be. In a way I whish RO2 hadn't even come out but now that I've played it it just seems silly to return to DH eventhough it's so much more fun/real.It just looks super outdated after playing RO2 eventhough the only 2 things I see as improved in RO2 over RO1 are the graphics and the sound. The rest of the new features and handeling just killed the fun we know from RO/DH.

TW better get their **** together and fix this game but to be honest, I've given up on TW since they haven't been able to produce a decent patch up until now nor have they responded to all the complaints about the gunhandeling/distribution. Maybe if they ever put out a sdk the modders will fix the game but this will be a matter of years and I'm sure something better wil have come out by then if BF 3 isnt that allready. I also checked the Rising Storm forums and they seem to stick with kissing TW's *** in stating that there's nothing wrong with the shooting mechanics. So not much hope for that mod either.

I've been playing online competitive FPS since the Doom day1 like 15 years ago and I've never seen such a potentialy perfect game being messed up like this. It's so obvious TW intended to please the casual masses, expecting to gain 1000's of new fans among the run n gun kiddies while at the same time betraying/ignoring the oldschool fans like me because would only be a small group of the comunity. Well guess what, TW was wrong and they will have to start apealing to the old school RO gamers if they want to save this game if it isn't allready too late for that. Then again, they stated that RO2 has been a huge succes for them businesswise so maybe their goal is allready accomplished, to make money by misleading loyal customers. Thanks for RO1 TW but no thanks for this crap you delivered. If I were you I'd be very ashamed.

If you really have been playing RO1 and DH, like you said, why diss TW?
You should know better...
 

Mike 78

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 14, 2011
184
202
0
If you really have been playing RO1 and DH, like you said, why diss TW?
You should know better...

I'm not trying diss them but you can't deny that what I said is what has more or less happened. If I didn't think very high of TWI before I wouldn't be so disapointed right now.

I really do hope that TW will get their game straight. I own every TW game so I think I can state my, perhaps sometimes unellegant/misspelled opinion about this game. -I'm just trying to urge them to change some essential things because the last patches didn't fix what really needs work. The gameplay.
 

CaptHawkeye

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 23, 2009
131
93
0
I'd pay money for people to understand the difference between analyzing and complaining about actual problems vs. being frustrated the game isn't exactly how *you* want it.
 
Sep 17, 2011
49
9
8
The problem isn't recoil or accuracy. The problem is how you can sprint across halfway across a map, aim from the standing position, and experience very little sway. Even an expert soldier is going to need a few seconds to catch his breath if he wants to hit something a good distance away.
 

Jippofin

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 15, 2011
183
72
0
I must point out that there is one slight inaccuracy about the picture though, the big stippled circle is infact 3.5 MOA in size, and not 3 MOA.

When shooting an assault rifle that is roughly capable to 1.5MOA I can reliably (nearly 100%, with iron sights) hit a human head at 150 meters in a non-stressing environment. That is pretty much the far limit for my skills. And by most measures I am a good shot. Some are better than me, most worse. That is 1.5 MOA of the rifle combined with my own human error. If I am tired (sleep deprived, exhausted, ...) or otherwise not well composed (like scared for my life in battle) my accuracy drops off instantly and a lot.
[This is with magazine rested on the ground & prone. I suppose it would be same as supported prone in game. With standing position accuracy is much reduced from that.]

Added to the matter is mechanical accuracy of weapons and quality of ammunition produced in desperate war time, 1.5 MOA willl be impossible to achieve with most weapons in the game( maybe counting out the hand selected sniper rifles).
 
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